Am I cutting off my nose to spite my face?

[SilentBoob]

My parents retired abroad a few weeks before my first child was born. A couple of years after that we moved even further abroad. We don't see them very often.

They have met my older two children maybe 5 times in total? I have just had another baby.

Last summer my husband and I offered as a gift to fly them out to see us at a time that suited them. They said no, thank you. When pressed as to why not they said they would feel awkward having us spend so much money on them. We pointed out that it was actually much cheaper for us to buy 2 tickets for them to travel to us, than 5 tickets to go and see them, and that the goal was just to all see each other. They still said no, saying that they didn't feel ready yet to be "an old couple who get flown out to see their children". So, we left it. I joked that perhaps when I had the baby I might find I needed their help and they'd have to come out and see us then.

A month before my baby was born my mother phoned to say that obviously if I genuinely needed her help she would come out, but that I was to understand that she didn't actually want to come and that it wouldn't be a fun thing for her to do, so I wasn't to say I needed her help unless I really couldn't cope without her. And furthermore I certainly wouldn't genuinely need her help because it was my 3rd baby and I knew what I was doing by now.

I was pretty hurt by this, and also a bit bloody angry to be honest - she had not come and visited when either of my other children were born so I didn't need it spelling out that she wouldn't be coming for this one either. I have never expected anything from her, so why is she treating me like I am a needy drain on her time?

Now the final thing: later this year my parents are flying very near to our part of the world - they will be an hours flight away. They let us know and said that they would love to see us for the day. I said that a day trip wasn't really possible, but why didn't they extend their stopover and fly down to see us? They would be able to meet their newest grandchild who will be 8 months old. They have got back to me to say no, they don't have time, they need to get home. They are both retired and have no hobbies or commitments to get back to.

At this point, my reaction is to say "sod you then". They obviously don't want to come and see us. I am hurt and I don't really understand why, but I am not going to beg.

My friend says I am being ridiculous and "British" and cutting off my nose to spite my face. She says the normal thing to do would be to phone them and say "wtf? Why on earth aren't you coming to see us?".

What do you think?

I think your friend is underestimating the extent to which your parents don't give a shit.
I think that "sod you then" is a perfectly reasonable response.

You would be perfectly right to say "Sod you, then". I'm not British at all, rather from a very tight-knit Eastern culture, but even I would get the message at about where you are and give up trying to see them.

for you & your children.

very

i think i remember you posting about this before - re: what your mum said about after 3rd child was born - come IF i have to but don't want to stuff?

you could call them and say all that but only you know if it is even worth bothering. i agree that if it was anyone else you'd persevere and say oi, you're only an hour away we never get to see you please take an extra day so we can catch up. but with your parents, and your children's GPs?? i think the rejection is too painful you know? the whole surely they should want to see us not have to be bullied into it etc.

sorry this is the case. if i lived away it would be the same for me. there's no way they'd go out of their way and even odd logic like, 'we have to be here on a saturday morning because that's when we clean the house' would be seen as a reasonable excuse. i do get it.

Depends on what you want to get from the conversation. The chances are they aren't going to change even if you did talk about it, and I think you've accepted that. So if you bought it up they find out you're upset they could get defensive or angry or minimise what you're saying and you feel even worse. Their behaviour sounds unpleasant, especially what your mother said about coming to stay and all the resentment in her words.

Perhaps if they question why you won't come to see them for the day you could outline some of the points you've made here? But I think you have to be prepared for frustration if they refuse to see your perspective.

Also..I'm not saying they will do this, but if you did stop trying in general they may very well start commenting on it and how they never see you and blah blah blah, while making no effort to change. Mind-boggling stuff.

i'd need to express myself personally but i'd be aware it would achieve nothing other than me getting to do that.

i'd end up saying ok, it is very clear that you cannot be bothered about me or your grandchildren and i will adjust my expectations accordingly because i'm fed up of this hurting over and over again. it is time for me to accept it and move on. enjoy your holiday.

- DHs parents are like this. No advice - I agree with swallowedafly, it is very painful to tackle their behaviour

How sad. What a weird attitude.

I think I'd have to say something, whilst being aware that it wouldn't help the situation apart from the get it off your chest.

Yes, that was me Swallowed.

The thing is, I find the whole thing so baffling that I honestly couldn't swear that it's them in the wrong and not me.

They think everything is fine. They think we have a great relationship. It's just me getting my knickers in a twist halfway round the world, and they have no idea.

For example, they never ever phone me or reply to emails. I used to send them photos of the children and a bit of news about us. Never got acknowledgement. But when I would ask them if they like the photos they absolutely gushed! They LOVED them and PLEASE keep sending them and they have shown them to all their friends and printed some out etc etc. But after a while I thought "sod it" and decided to see how long they would wait before contacting me if I stopped. That was last year some time. We now go months between contact. I think they probably don't understand why I stopped contacting them.

But... I dunno. I just get nothing from them. I am tired of doing all the legwork. I had a baby 11 days ago and have heard nothing from them. They don't even know her name. Well, they do, because they will have heard it from someone in the family. They are massively in touch with my brothers. I suspect it is me actually. I am the awkward one. I just wish it was different.

or they just take more interest in boys. sadly that happens.

I really feel for you. I think it's probably time to either tell them to sod off or just stop trying at the very least. They sound happy with their lifestyle and the choices they have made, which they are perfectly entitled to be. But I would have stopped trying a while ago I think. It's their loss frankly.

I'm sorry you are in such a painful situation.

But I think it is time to stop second guessing all these things. They think everything is fine. They think we have a great relationship. It's just me getting my knickers in a twist halfway round the world, and they have no idea.

Maybe I'm too idealistic, but they are your parents, so there must be some possibility of communication. I can tell that seeing them in person is a problem, but maybe a phone conversation when you have time would be good? Try and be honest and diplomatic and find out what the cause of all this is. You have nothing to lose...

Congrats on your new baby!

Silent - I think that this is one where it very much isnt you, it is them. I am guessing that they are not demonstrative people and quite possibly assume that you know that at an essential level you have their approval and that they dont need to say anything.

It seems like they are only interested in the world they can see. Possibly they are also frightened of visiting you where you are 'in charge' as you will know the cultural/language ropes and they would be dependent on you in some way.

In your shoes I think I would probably reduce my expectations totally. Send them photos etc once or twice per year and leave it at that.

Dont be surprised if one day you discover they boast about you all the time to other people 'my daughter in XYZ, would you like to see some photos.....?'

When we lived abroad and my DM visited, while she was with us she would complain about how expensive the trip was (we paid for flights, she stayed with us), how tiring all the child care was (one evening's babysitting in a week's visit) etc. When we moved back she complained that she missed her lovely little holidays out to visit us!

Some people dont seem to understand that you cant read their minds and that you cant see that you are loved and cherished if there is no demonstration of this.

There really is nowt so queer as folk!

First of all congrats on your new baby :o

I can imagine how incredibly hurt you must be. I cannot beleive they have not been in touch when their dd has given birth to their gd :(

My exILs are like this a bit and they only live 6 miles away. They have never had the kids to stay, or even babysat or taken them out for the day in 12 years. They saw them on Monday for the first time since Christmas :( Yet when they see them they gush over them, shower them with presents, dote on them, the works

My mom lives 150 miles away and sees them much more often. She came down on the train last weekend to spend DD2's birthday with her. She has them for a week every summer. She wishes and wishes we lived closer.

So, in short, I wish I knew the answer but I don't. But I feel so sorry for you :(

My family are the same... only wanted contact when it suited them. when I was in bits I literally would be ignored for 2-3 weeks.

I think as awful as it is to come to terms with, you need to recognise what they are like and stop expecting them to suddenly break all previous precedents and accept that they are NOT going to be there/interested/caring/considerate EVER.

My mum thinks we are close, can't imagine why I'd not follow her and Dsis to the South West.... Like I'd move from one side of the road to the other for people who made DAMNED sure I was left even more cut off and isolated. They TOLD me they did it on purpose too.

As hard as it is, try not to get too hung up on them, they won't be thinking about why you don't contact them... they simply don't appear to have you too high on their list of things to do.

The flight/daytrip thing for me would also be the last straw, but then I am at that point already with my family, so see it much more black and white where they are all concerned.

YOU are not the awkward one. As I am not the awkward/mouthy/stubborn one either. THEY are the sad buggers that don't know how to give a shit. Give thanks to god that they didn't damage you too much growing up! I've realised that their disinterest/lack of approval/selfishness has lead directly to me being vulnerable to being sucked into an abusive relationship. 10 years.

I am cross that they are as crap as they are, but it could be worse... I could have grown up to be like them, unable to care about others... that would kill me tbh. I'm glad I'm different to them. I'd hate to be them.

So in short, you are not cutting the nose off to spite your face... it probably wasn't there in the first place...

Focus on your lovely family around you and put yourself out for them, raise kids that DO care about others, and that celebrate responsibility, concern for fellow humans.

(((HUG)))

Your parents sound weird to be honest.

Not even acknowledging the birth of your baby must feel dreadful, and such a rejection.

I think it will help you to come to terms with the fact that they are never going to be the kind of parents you had wanted. Maybe with some counselling? It sounds like there are obviously family dynamics there in how they are with your brothers....

I feel sad for you.

But count your blessings. DH and 3 lovely children. You have made your own family.

(My DS's dad is 99% out of the picture. I feel blessed that we are our own little family IYSWIM).

Silent another thought. I really wouldnt try and have it out with your parents. What would it gain? I am guessing that they are really just totally crap at communication. In their own heads they will probably be writing a different script:

Silent knows that if she really needs us we will just drop everything and go to her

It was a pity that Silent couldnt spare the time to visit us when we were over there

Of course she is very busy with the new baby so Silent hasnt had time to call us yet

It is so difficult with the time difference, I just dont know what time it is over there

Houdini was leaving you to suffer one of those mad 'for your own good' type of things?

it doesn't sound to me like you have your knickers in a twist, it sounds like you're frustrated and hurt and you have a right to be i think.

but some people are just a bit shit - they're not cruel and they're not spiteful, they're just not reacting in the way you'd want them to. my OH and i adopted three beautiful boys nearly 18 months ago now, my mum hadn't been to see us once. she's not cruel, she's just very different.

i got hurt for a while but then i remembered what it was like growing up with her - it wasn't all that marvellous in truth. were you very close to your parents as a kid? has there been a rift of some kind? or has it always been a bit crap?

now i'm glad she keeps her distance, we're cordial and i do my duty in terms of contact with her but it leaves me free to put my energy into relationships that put something back.

sounds like you've got a lovely little unit there - enjoy it - an congratulaions of course :)

No, Gnome it was 'You are being abused by your H, we don't want to know...' with an addendum of 'When he actually leaves, we'll spend months planning and eventually ff off take a trip to the very furthest place on earth without telling you until a week or so before, so you are utterly alone' kind of things.

My sister actually told me she ignored my texts looking for a bit of sisterly support. To. my. face. She was in the states, I was in Africa, mum was in UK... I wasn't actually asking ANYONE to do anything more than send a text back to say 'thinking of you', so I'd not feel so totally hopeless... I'm planning my Menu of Revenge... it will be a chilled platter...

I won't rule out the fact that Silent's parents may be crap at communications, but equally, when they ARE actually in touch they don't seem too good at actually making an effort at all .... so I think this is not a matter of time differences, this could be that they genuinely are not that interested in anything that doesn't directly involve them... as my family are.

I agree not to confront them, it won't make any difference. My own mother thinks she's always 'been there for me' which is a JOKE tbh. Never mind, gives me a reason to keep going to Therapy eh?

I kept all the above to myself, and when it came up in therapy, my therapist GASPED! Since then I have told snippets to others, and they too are shocked.

if the consensus is that you could have been treated better, tbh, then YANBU to feel incredibly hurt and upset about their behaviour.

I'm sorry Houdini, I wasnt trying to minimise just trying to rationalise on the basis of my DM who is fine but was prone to making utterly crap 'for your own good' type communications.

My comment about timezones was really a follow on to my earlier post about parents who are just utterly useless at actually communicating the important things. Not that it is real justification just that it is sometimes how crap communicators justify things IYSWIM.

Hi Silent, I remember your other thread. How hurtful and wearing this all must be, and just incomprehensible really on their part. How could they not be interested? How could they not want to meet their new granddaughter?

I had a very similar experience with my ILs (even though they live just down the road), very uninterested in the kids, in seeing us and I just couldn't get my head round it. They just sort of shut down and shut everything out. I had PND after DS1 (and MIL knew I did) and remember begging her to come round and keep me company one afternoon, just have a cup of tea, nothing heavy. She told me she couldn't because she had ironing to do.

Ten years down the line and I have accepted they will never be the warm loving ILs I wanted. I don't expect anything at all from them, that way I can't be disappointed. It was a hurtful lesson to learn though. It must be a whole lot more hurtful if it's your actual parents. Do you know what though? It really is their loss.

Lots of congratulations on your new arrival.

Oh no Gnome love, I didn't think you were saying anything at all untoward! No offence taken at all! ha ha, Due to all of the above, I'm pretty bomb-proof!

You can't change others behaviour just try to change how you feel about it. They have given you a very clear message. Just leave them to it. My ILs are the same (must be worse if its your parents though). I really cannot understand their choices. Our DDs are their only grandchildren and are very sweet and easy but we have been told not to invite the ILs to visit as it puts them under "pressure". The one time we asked for some childcare (to attend a family wedding all my family were going to) they refused because they "might have paperwork" to do. They are retired in great health and with not many interests or commitments. Sod them - when I see DDs running to my parents who know about the minuatie of their lives it hits home how much they are missing out.