When you realise the love has gone....

[PurplePlant]

Dp and I had a frank discussion during which we both said we felt unloved by the other. Neither of us, interjected with, 'of course I love you'

It's something I had long suspected due to his attitude towards me, but I guess now I know for sure. Equally I was questioning my feelings towards him quite some time ago, and admittedly did start to withdraw emotionally.

Not being loved is one thing, but there is a lot of anger and resentment towards each other. It's the active disliking that I find hard to cope with.

We have two young dc's who are the light of our lives and both feel that a family is stronger together. For that reason alone, it is unlikely we will ever split up. Neither of us wants to be the one who tears the family apart.

We couldn't afford to run two houses, struggling financially with just the one.
Neither of us would be entitled to any benefits.

We acknowledged that perhaps our problems are so deep-rooted that they might be insurmountable.

Can you ever fall back in love? Can you co-exist with someone? Does anyone have any experience of this, or advice please? :(

Why has this broken down?. What are the issues?.
What about his attitude towards you?. Has there been emotional abuse with you being shouted down or demeaned by him?.

If that is the case it is far better to be apart and happier than to be together and miserable with associated anger and resentment towards each other. Your children will pick up on all this antipathy you both have for each other and learn from it accordingly. This is not the legacy you want to leave them because they will otherwise carry all this into their own adult relationships.

Your family unit is already broken as the relationship between you and your man has broken down, perhaps beyond repair as you state.

How do you know that you are personally not entitled to any benefits?. Have you actually checked out your position legally and financially or are you both staying in a failing relationship because it is somehow "easier", its more familiar to you and/or you are afraid of being on your own?. Your children are entitled to have a relationship with their Dad if you lived apart and they would adapt over time to such a change.

What do the two of you want to teach your children about relationships here; do you want to tell them perhaps as adults that you stayed together primarily for their sake?. They will call you daft for doing so and accuse you of putting him before them. They will work it out long that your relationship is failing long before that stage and will certainly not thank you for giving them such knowledge.

Also by staying with this man you actively stop you from meeting someone new.

Attila - there are so many issues that it permeates every aspect of our lives and home. Seriously whatever you can think of, we argue about it. Money, housework, leisure time, each others families....
I totally agree about setting a good example and being a good role model to the dc's. I always try to resolve conflict in a calm way with them and encourage them to empathise with the other when they argue over a toy or something.
Wrt emotional abuse, if I'm honest I think we are both guilty of that. I tend to shout, he tends to criticise. I then clam up, because I simply have nothing left to say, which infuriates him, which leads to more put-downs.
I'm not afraid of being on my own, that aspect holds no fear for me. Although I know it wouldn't be easy. Neither of us have seen a solicitor. House and mortgage in joint names.
I inherited some money a few years ago, which just takes me over the threshold of allowed savings, that's whay I wouldn't be entitled to anything.
It's important to me that their Dad is a permanent figure in their lives, I wouldn't dream of trying to distance them from each other.
I spend a lot of time worrying about the effect on the dc's of the hostilities between their Dad and I. I don't want them to think this is normal, or acceptable. I try to lead by (good?!) example in every other aspect of parenting.
The whole thing makes me feel so sad, because it simply isn't what I hoped for in life.

How long have you been together? resentment is a sure fire way to kill of love within a relationship so dealing with the issues from both sides is important.

I would suggest counselling as it seems your arguments are destructive rather than ways to resolve issues. If you both believe you will stay together due to dc's then you do need to see if counselling will help to lower the conflict..

I've been to counselling and sometimes the counsellor will focus is on what each party can do to resolve the problems. (we all tend to hope that it's the other person's fault and if they changed it would all be fixed:)) What is it that you could do to improve the relationship? If you have negative behaviour in arguments what is the pay off for you from that behaviour?

Smum- Together about 8 years. Yes, the arguments are very destructive and damaging.
I've thought about counselling and emailed the nearest relate centre yesterday for more info.
I'm just not sure I've got the energy to try, I feel quite numb emotionally. I'm not sure that trying to improve my behaviour would be enough for him.
Even if I became the person he wants me to be, I still think he would bear grudges for all my past (perceived) injustices towards him.

This mutual lack of respect really is a killer. But I do think that if you fully understood each other's motives and feelings that the resentment would be lessened considerably - especially if you can move on to a more respectful, caring relationship, even if it isn't very passionate. Relate can help you do that in a safe place.

People can and do fall in love again, with the same person, all their married lives together. This is how long relationships get long, I think.

Open minds, open hearts, really honest comms .... who knows?

PurplePlant,

If he will not go to Relate (that could well happen if you suggest it) I would suggest you go on your own.

Re this comment you made:-
"Wrt emotional abuse, if I'm honest I think we are both guilty of that. I tend to shout, he tends to criticise. I then clam up, because I simply have nothing left to say, which infuriates him, which leads to more put-downs".

Re this comment too:-
"Even if I became the person he wants me to be, I still think he would bear grudges for all my past (perceived) injustices towards him".

What does he want you to become?. Also that puts much of the emphasis and responsibility on you; what about his responsibility and part in all this?. What has he actually done to try and improve things or do you think he is at heart not bothered either way.

He cannot make you into the person he wants you to be; besides which you are your own person. He comes across as both critical and uncaring of your needs.

Levels of financial threshholds change, would still suggest you seek up to date legal advice on both the financials and property as you have not done so.

What does he criticise you about; if you were to analyse it properly he is perhaps pulling you up on what seems to be trivial stuff (e.g the kids leaving their toys around for instance).

What is he like with other people, I would put money on it that he does not treat any others the way he treats you, he can control his temper (but with you its a different story) and is very plausible to those in the outside world.

Dragging a failing relationship onwards does you and he no favours whatsoever. Also the longer you both stay within this the more "normal" to the DC this becomes. They are learning about relationships from you both, what do you both want to teach them about relationships?.

BTW what do your family/friends think of him?.

I'd forget love for a second and start with 'like'. Do you like each other? Do you talk to each other like friends? Would you talk to a stranger in the street the way you talk to each other.... and would the stranger find it acceptable? If the answer is 'no' then that's the place to start ie. being civil and friendly and working up to actual affection. The big question, of course, is do both of you care enough about the problem to want to fix it? If that's a 'no' then I think it's probably time to call it a day rather than waste time on counselling.

Tsk. Typed lengthy reply, then pc crashed.
I think we both use the past hurts as a platform from which to (metaphorically) launch insults at each other. Forgiveness is something we are not good at. I think he wants to remember the grievances as a way of justifying his behaviour.
I think Relate probaly can help. We are both firmly entrenched in our positions, which is a place of security for me.
With others he is warm, funny articulate and engaging. My friends don't know. I confided in one some time ago, the next time she saw him, she blanked him. He had a go at me afterwards, because he (rightly) concluded that I had been talking to her about him. My family adore him, I wouldn't want them to be worried about my relationship
I find it hard to like someone who continuously finds fault with me.
I think the rows affect me more, he will go to work, then come home and continue it after the dc are in bed, until we go to bed, then start again the next day, and the next until he feels as though I understand his side of the argument, and therefore I am wrong, he is right. It's exhausting and morally draining.
I do care about this, because it is horrible. I don't want the dc to be affected, and the thought of this 'til death do us part' is depressing.

You sound like you're tolerating the emotional abuse because of the DCs, your family, the opinion of your friends and you're also blaming yourself for his inability to treat you with the same good manners as he treats others. Everyone's needs are taking priority over yours and that is a recipe for a miserable next 30?, 40?, 50? years.

It is not your fault that you are being browbeaten morning and night. Your family & friends aren't the ones married to this man, you are. Speaking as a DC that used to listen to her parents arguing all night long when they thought she was asleep, it has led to several problems in working out what is acceptable in a relationship. As for the financial implications you would be able to cope because many of us do and children can have excellent relationships with two-centre parents.

What price a calm, happy household? What price peace of mind? What price self respect? Give Relate a chance but my fear would be that a man that treats you with such utter contempt and disrespect knowing you'd never ask him to leave has no incentive to change behaviour.

Maybe you could look at it from this point of view...

You say feel you owe it to your family/ DC to stay together. But you also owe it to each other to be happy.

Which means if you are determined to stay together for family's sake, then you need to find a way to repair the marriage and be happy together. I would second the recommendation for Relate counselling. If you are going to stay together, then you need to do everything you can to rekindle your love for each other.

I also agree that people fall in and out of love with each other and that this is what marriage is about. Sometime people go for counselling and find that there is nothing left. But some people do go and it makes their marriage stronger. You have nothing to lose by trying and everything to gain if it works.

Good luck!

PurplePlant

Given what you have written about him it is even more unlikely that he will accede to your request to go to Relate.

Emotional abuse like you are on the receiving end of should not be tolerated because your children can and do pick up on the antipathy and resentment within the household.

I am not surprised to read either that he is all nice and sweet to those in the outside world; abusive men are very plausible to those in the outside world. Your family and friends too do not have to live with him day in and day out. Also emotional abuse like you're experiencing also thrives on secrecy.

You use the term DP; presumably this means you are not married. In law therefore you are note related to each other and would be treated as two separate individuals.

Purple, your DC are already being affected by this ill treatment of you at his hands and you cannot fully protect them from his outbursts directed at you. Your children are likely to all too clearly hear the rows. You write that you do not want them to grow up thinking that this is normal but the longer you remain within this the more likely they will be to think that this is how adults conduct relationships.

Do you work? There is no threshold for savings for Tax Credits, you declare your unearned income.

No, we're not married, but live as though we are. I consider him to be my husband if that makes sense. ie. in it for the duration, not until things get difficult.
I don't work atm, but will do once youngest dc starts school.
I know the dc are already being affected, although it pains me to admit that.
I try to foster a happy, affectionate, fun and care-free home for them.
Thank you everyone, I'm probably going to be off line until this evening now. Hopefully I'll be able to check-in later. If dp falls asleep on the sofa, and I can mn in private!

You need to do a bit of research about what you're entitled to before you conclude you're trapped.

This is where you can get an idea of what your rights are. I take it you're not married:

www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_family/family_index_ew/ending_a_relationship_when_you_re_living_together.htm

You can find out about how much maintenance you'd be entitled to here:
www.cmoptions.org/en/calculator/calculator.asp

Tax credits, here:
taxcredits.hmrc.gov.uk/Qualify/DIQHousehold.aspx

Housing benefit here:
england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/paying_for_a_home/housing_benefit_and_local_housing_allowance?gclid=CLKwzO_I664CFS4NtAodNWZOJg

Hi PurplePlant,

re your comment:-
"No, we're not married, but live as though we are".

The fact here is that you are not married. Also in law you would not be seen as being related to each other so you two would be seen as two completely separate individuals in the event of a separation. As his unmarried partner your legal position is not ideal at all. I would be seeking legal advice asap in your particular circumstances re the finances. Olgaga has given you some links and thus a starting point.

re your comment:-
"I consider him to be my husband if that makes sense. ie. in it for the duration, not until things get difficult".
But he is still not your H, he has decided not to make you his wife even after having his DC.

Being it in for the duration if you decided on this course of action will certainly not do you any favours long term. Also things are already difficult (you have admitted as much) and your children are undoubtedly picking up on this within their home. If at this stage it pains you to admit that already, it is not going to get any better for you or they if you choose to remain within this situation. They are after all are learning from you both about how adult relationships are conducted.

I would also ask you this, what do you get out of this relationship now?. Be honest with yourself when thinking about that.

You are not trapped even though you think you are.

I do hope counselling can work and I agree that if your DP won't go then go alone, it could help you clarify what is happening and what you want.

I think it's a shame when a relationship becomes like this. I think the next time he goes on & on ask him if he wants to fix the problem or does he just want to be right?

Thank you all so much, excellent advice.I was worried about going public with this, but glad I did. You have given me lots to think about.
Olgaga - I will certainly use the links you gave me, thankyou for your time and effort in finding them.
Thank you all for your kind words and thoughts. I will try Relate, either as a couple or by myself.
Thankyou again x

Oh Purpleplant I really empathise with you. I came onto MN tonight because I suppose I am in a similar position and wanted to get some advice on what I could/should do. I have been with husband for more than half my life, met at Uni, been together ever since. I just don't seem to feel anything anymore other than resentment, frustration and sadness and a terrible feeling of knowing he would be better off without me. But of course, the children are keeping us together but they are no fools and obviously realise things are not happy. I will come back tomorrow. Had such a lousy day and need to get some rest. This is so draining, just tired all the time, emotionally all over the place. Just exhausted.

Sorry purpleplant, I will start another thread, didn't mean to be selfish, I suppose I just found some comfort in realising I am not the only person to feel like this. Thank you for sharing and hope you also find some comfort and strength to get through to the other side.

I would like to say that my DH and I went through a very bad time...almost split (we also have 2 young children) and we got over it. We are now much stronger and more careful with one another.

AwkwardMary, how did you get over it ? Did you get outside help ? What do you mean by being 'more careful with another' - like not taking each other for granted ?

mrsobriain no we didn't get any outside help simply because we couldn't afford it....though we looked into it. DH was unhappy and I was unhappy and we rowed ALL the time....we were very nasty to each other and said some terrible things....we both decided that unless we could change it then we were doomed as a couple and we didnt want that....we're both faithful types and wanted the DC to have two happy parents...we didnt stop loving one another but we weren't being kind or affectionate....we were not enjoying one another at all.

we decided that we needed to be as nice to one another as we are to the DC....what's the point in loving the DC so much and being so careful of their development when we showed nothing but contempt for each other.

we began in a small way by trying to do something nice for one another daily....even just making some tea and saying kind words of encouragement re one anothers work and life generally.

We decided that we would stop worrying about small stuff...I often have to reign DH in as he stresses a lot....so I will say "It doesn't actually matter...what matters is living NOW...for the moment...we're alive now and we should be enjoying it."

It's about communicating carefully....and being aware that one of the biggest causes of us fallling out is the fact that we have differing philosophies on life. Sometimes one or the other will back down now...and DH joined a gym...this helped him a LOT as he often had a bad temper....the gym helps him to get rid of his excess energy.

We also have regular "date nights" which are nothing more than a bottle of wine, a film and no work talk. we can't afford to go outt much so this is helpful....I also began to ask a couple of friends around more often as I was aware that DH was suffering due to lack of a social life....

I don't know really...it was a combination of planning a strategy together and working out which things in our lives were making us most unhappy....what is it with you two? Which points have you both made?

That sounds brilliant and so glad things worked out for you. Would you say you are back to where you were then ? We are not being kind, or affectionate and we are definitely not enjoying each other. I think I have realised that weekends are the worst time because we are actually in the house together.

The problem is that he doesn't think we need to do anything, it is just a bad patch, all couples are in the same boat and somehow we will come out the other side. He just functions. That's what he does. I can't just function without any feeling, it has always been all or nothing with me. I keep telling him if we are both unhappy then we need to do something, it won't work itself out in the wash.

Being nice is really really difficult when you have so much baggage and resentment, I try but it feels really insincere and false.

However, I am going to keep trying. I don't want to cuckoo OP's post so please feel free to add to my other thread unless it is also helping OP.

I have been in this situation for the last couple of years, we did split up for about 7 months, put the house up for sale and had the who gets what discussions, it was pretty miserable and I started looking at properties to buy on my own and felt utterly depressed. Me and dh have definately grown apart after 11 years together, we have had a lot of battles to fight along the way and although there is still alot of love there, any passion and sexual interaction died long ago.
We have had arguments and there is a lot of resentment from my part about various things but I thinik for the same reason as OP states, we didn't think there would be much benefit is us separating in the end. Neither of us would be able to afford a decent lifestyle on our own, it would tear our dd life apart and in many ways, we work well as a team, getting through the challenges that life these days presents. Cohabiting with someone to talk to, someone to give you a hug after a horrible day at work, someone to share a meal with and go and watch the children in concert with, someone to help with the kids homework and share the bills, even go on a holiday.....surely its bettet tha being on your own.
AND... I dont think there is a store of eligible men out there waiting to step into their place and give us all we yearn for.....