He wants to take my kids away =(

[thebubblefairy]

I was with my ex for five years and we have a 3 year old DS and one year old DD.
It was a very volatile relationship, lots of verbal abuse. I finally had enough and ended it just after christmas.

He is a Turkish national and both our kids have dual nationality. Since we split he has been saying I'm an unfit mum and he will take the kids to live with him in Turkey.

Please please please tell me he can't do this?? Don't know what I'd do without my kids.

so his threat is that he'll get a court order? And that worries you enough to let him continue seeing them, even though you think he'll leave the country with them?

And what exactly do you think will happen if there is a court order????

A court order only tells him when he can/cannot have contact. nothing more. it is hardly a threat, and at the moment the only person who tells him when he does/does not have contact is YOU.

If you have serious concerns that he will abduct your children, then you STOP contact. NOW.

Write to him and tell him this (obviously it is better if you have proof of him saying this, but it doesnt matter if you dont) and then refuse to hand over the children. He will then instigate court proceedings and you will explain why he shouldnt have contact. the court/cafcass will decide on the risks and advise/order accordingly.

Alternatively if you are in fear of him, you go and see a solicitor tomorrow and explain the position. they are likely to then go to court without him on an urgent basis and get you an order stopping him from hurting you, and an order to say the children should live with you and sould not be taken out of the country by him, this order will last for a few days until the time that you have to attend court with him for the court to take a decision on how to proceed.

You should only do the latter if you are in fear for your safety. That course of action speeds matters up within the court and gets your hearing date sooner.

if you are not in fear of him, or believe (as you should, because the courts hope you will take this action first) that the police will help you if he does become violent, then you should follow my original advice of stopping contact and telling him now. he will then seek legal advice, file an application for contact in court, and you can then go to court (with or without a solicitor) to put forward your concerns.

Hope this helps.

He goes from begging me to take him back, saying we can have another baby then when I reject him he goes crazy and threatens all sorts of things. I think stopping contact alltogether may be the best thing but I didn't want to have to do that to him.

No I'm not in fear of my own safety and I don't think he would really hurt the kids. He adores them. But moving back to Turkey is being mentioned more and more often now.

He has threatened to harm them though. That's quite alarming.

Keep the passports at your parents, and their birth certificates, too.
If they would be secure at your parents? e can't get in? Wouldn't be able to sweet talk them? Not tha you would tell him where tha passports and birth certificates are, obviously.

You absolutely must get legal help. Immediately.

Honestly, and I am in a similarish position, I would not let my children be with him without supervision.
In fact, I have not let DS out of my sight (or a trusted person) for the past year.

You should ask for legal advice asap. Check what you can do to prevent them leaving.

If he gets them in Turkey it will be much more difficult for you to get them back, assuming you can even find them.

Not to scare you, but facing a court order is much less scary than being without the children, IMO.

In fact, he could well have the tables turned and the court decide that he is unfit.

I am a criminal law solicitor. It is actually an offence for one parent to remove a child from the jurisdiction in the full knowledge that the other parent doesn't consent. Even when both parents have parental responsibility.

The offence carries a custodial sentence. Likely he would get one as he would be doing it for purely malicious reasons.

Thebubble
This is the first time I've posted to mumsnet (so please forgive any faux pas I make). I have been in this situation twice now, the first time it was more serious and I had to get a prohibited steps order and my ex had to hand over his passport to a solicitor to reduce the risk of his leaving the country with our DD. The second time, with a different ex, the risk of his leaving the country was lower but I was really worried about him harming the children (he had threatened to do this). In both cases, I sought legal advice. I also contacted Reunite (www.reunite.org/index.asp) who can help with prevention of child abduction. I also kept notes etc, so that if it ever came to court there would be a log of events. If a country has signed the Hague Convention and British children are removed from the UK, then they have to be returned to the UK (though, if they have dual nationality, the situation is more complex). I also, like you, thought it would just be easier to stay in emotionally abusive relationships to keep my children safe (in both cases), but I am SO glad I left. It will be hard for a time, but you and your children will come throught it if you cover all bases,keep notes, have independent witnesses (to this behaviour etc) and get legal advice. Good luck!

I don't understand why u let him have them at the weekend when he has made these threats. He wouldn't get near my kids again. Go to the police! See a solicitor! Take the kids away! Do something! Don't let him near them, they are too precious! man up

I've sent you a PM

Do the children have turkish passports? (you mention upthread that they are dual nationals).

That's what would worry me, that he'd take them out on non-UK passports and that the border authorities would be unable to do anything.

Go and see a solicitor. Tell them exactly what you've told us (including the threats to hurt the children, even if you don't think he really meant it) and let the courts do their job.

Turkey is signed up to the Hague Convention but, as in every other Islamic country, Turkish law is Sharia law - 'nuff said.

His threats mean that there is clear and present danger to your dc. Under the circumstances, you are best advised to suspend their unsupervised contact with him and seek urgent legal advice as to how best to protect them.

In the absence of a court order you are not obliged to hand over your children to someone who has threatened to harm them !
Given the threats stop contact and report the threats to police. Try email contact with him ? So anything said is in writing?
You could say that given his threats you are suspending contact.

Put that In writing.

If he threatens court then let him proceed with this but you need to keep very good records of what he has said and witnessed if possible etc . You are going to need to show why you afraid of him and why you stopping contact .

Cafcass will want to investigate of the threats are genuine

Turkey is not an Islamic country in law, it is secular. No Sharia. However, finding and dealing with an abduction seriously involves the local police and local custom can prevail depending on which part of the country you are in! For that reason, you can't rely on the Hague.

They're "our" kids, don't forget. As much as you're being told many things on here, he may well be feeling as terrible as you.

If he has them every weekend that's unusual anyway, if he went to court chances are the contact order would give him alternate weekends.

Get a prohibited steps order and go to court for a contact order. Once they are gone, Hague convention or not, it is extremely difficult to get them back.

They're "our" kids, don't forget. As much as you're being told many things on here, he may well be feeling as terrible as you.

And that is supposed to justify threatening to uproot the children and deny them all contact with their mother?
Nice.

Yes, they are "our" kids and that's why such threats should not happen at all! That is of an unfit parent.

Not to mention harming the children?

As much as I would be hurt with an ex, I'd never even consider the possibility of harming a child of mine.

RobinSure -'Our' kids? Aren't you just a little bit ashamed to take that line on behalf of a man who's threatened to hurt them?

You need to be very careful here because Turkish nationals are known to fly the children out of the country when they split. Many examples reported in the press. Get a lawyer and report what he said about taking children off to Turkey and ensure that he never has kids out of your eyesight.

There are legal steps you can take to prevent this from happening.

I took a prohibitive steps order out on my ex to prevent him taking my daughter anywhere without my written consent - even out of school. The passport office put a caveat on her passport until the order came through, which prevents anyone else but me from making a passport application for her, but she only has british nationality.

A prohibited steps order is what its called.