Estranging from mother

[iPud]

Hi
I have had a difficult relationship with my mother since I was a young adult, I guess, but have always felt obliged to maintain a relationship because, well, she gave birth to me. And she did do her best when my siblings and I were children, as a single parent, and I know she made sacrifices, and had it hard.
But since I was a teen, it has been strained, she is always right, expects unwavering respect, is overbearing, opinionated, bossy, won't be spoken back to, won't treat us like adults. I moved away and things were ok, didn't feel close, but no official estrangement.
I let her criticisms and nagging wash over my head, nodded and smiled, just accepted this is how she is, mothers nag and complain and criticise.

But I have a toddler now, and I am increasingly getting annoyed with her undermining me, and ignoring my wishes re him, lots of small things, but they add up, and I am at the stage where I just can't be bothered with her any more. I feel stressed when she's around. And now my toddler is a toddler and not a baby, I feel he's at the age where he will pick up that his mother is being undermined, and I don't want this. I have tried speaking to her about this, but she wont have it, and says I have to accept her as she is, and she can say what she likes. Is she right about this?

My reason for posting, is that I feel I need to cut contact, but I feel guilty about this. Guilty for her, because she is old, won't be around forever, and did have a hard life when she was young, and I am depriving her of her joyful grandson. Guilty for depriving my child of a grandparent. Guilty because outside of MN, it doesn't seem the done thing to walk away from the woman who gave birth to you.
My father isn't around. I have two siblings, brothers, who agree she is overbearing and have their issues with her, but I think she is worse with me, plus it's come more to a head now for me because I have DS, and it's the undermining of my and DH's wishes that are causing me to want to walk away now. They don't have DC yet. I am late thirties, btw.

Would appreciate a few opinions, if I haven't given enough detail, I will update, but this post was already looking long.
Will reply as and when the toddler permits! Thank you.

oiko, no, not at all, I really appreciate all your posts, thank you. I think I struggle with labelling my mother as extreme, toxic, etc, as I am aware of all she did when my brothers and I were children, she had it hard, all on her own. But you are right re her opinion of herself, vs me, how her opinion matters the most. She thinks it shows how much she cares, all her comments. But DH and I are bright, very capable parents, and it irks me like hell to be told what I am doing wrong, and she won't let it lie.

What do you say to your child if they ask why you/they don't see your parent/s?

I was also brought up by a toxic single mum who made my teenage years living hell. I broke away, but started to re-engage in my early twenties, when I had the emotional intelligence to cope with it and understand the reasons why she did and said the things she did (and still does). My brother moved to the other side of the world because he couldn't cope with it.
When she found out I was PG the 1st time she wore black for 3 weeks and prayed for a MC. Sick. I was 25 and in a long term relationship. Fast forward 10 years I am in that same relationship with 3 great boys and my Mum is living with us.
She is still a major pain in the ass, and I did feel obligated to look after her, however I wouldn't change it and it has taught us all (including my boys) some wonderful life lessons in patience, tolerance and understanding (and how life is so much easier if you have a HUGE sense of humour!) but also how to disagree with someone without being rude, confrontational or nasty. She has also had to learn how to keep her mouth shut. She doesn't always manage it, but hey, no-one is perfect. Today's prize comment she made to my husband "would you please go and buy your wife some new clothes, she permanently looks like a bag lady". Charming!
P.S I am not suggesting you move her in, but maybe take her with a pinch of salt and try to fond some common ground - you HAVE to put your foot down though, I think it's more damaging not to have grandparents around, they are so important. We just refer to my Mum as nutty nanny (!) and no, they don't have a great deal of respect for her, and I've explained to her that is for the same reasons as I didn't as a teenager. But they love her all the same. Warts and all!!

21yo, yes, but does that not equate to emotional blackmail on my part?

Not at all. You're protecting your DC from an abusive person, how could that ever be emotional blackmail?

It would be emotional blackmail if you were demanding something unreasonable- eg, "I'll only let you see my DC if you babysit them twice a week" is emotional blackmail. But because you're doing it for the sake of the DC, (seeing your mum bullied IS damaging to a child) then it's not emotional blackmail, it's protecting your children from an abusive grandmother. Make sense?

IF your mother can behave in a way which will not make your DC confused and require counselling when they're 18 then she can see them. If she can't, then she doesn't see them. It's nothing about her as a person, it's everything about her behaviour being damaging.

Hello, have been lurking but just wanted to put my oar in... OP, your mum sounds like she likes to be in control of what's going on. You mention that the problems started when you and your DBs started developing your own opinions; exactly the same thing happened with my mother and me. She HATED that I didn't take her word as gospel anymore, when that is just a normal part of adolescence.

She says she won't change her behaviour and you just have to lump it/accept it because it comes from love. Well, that's rather controlling of her. IME the only way to make a controlling person take you seriously is to exert some control back - not in a rude or violent way, just by making it clear that you're not budging. If that involves not speaking for a while then so be it. If you spell out clearly why you don't want to be in touch for a while and what she can do to make the situation better, then you will have left the ball in her court.

I know what you mean about depriving her of her GC; my mum lives for my DS and would be utterly miserable if I cut her off. In fact the major reason I contact her is so she can see him!! However, I am absolutely sure that if I did say I was unhappy about her behaviour around him, she'd move heaven and earth to change it because she loves him so much. If your mum isn't willing to compromise even slightly for the sake of her GC then she is truly inflexible and stubborn and those may not be qualities you want your DS to be exposed to.

Anyway. Non-MN hugs, you sound like you're striving for a good outcome all round here and that is really important :)

Syriana, yes, she likes to be in control, I think she sees herself as a matriarch, and still telling her offspring what to do, even though we are all in our thirties. We all ignore the opinions, but I'm really hacked off with the attitude that I still need telling how to do anything.

So, we are not speaking, I replied to her email pretty much copying and pasting chitchat's paragraph above (thank you, ChitChat!), have had no response. I really can't believe she would prefer to have her say rather than keep her unwanted opinions to herself and see DS. It's her loss, but I feel sorry for her.

Can someone advise me please, what do you say to your child if they ask why we don't see your parent? He's too young now, but in a few years, won't he ask why we see daddy's mum, but not mine?

conors, wow, your mother is shocking. I get what you are saying re teaching our dc tolerance, patience etc, but at the same time, I want to teach him we don't have to put up with crap from anyone. How to find the line! And I just feel stressed when she is here, feel the criticisms, and life's too short.

21yo, thanks, I appreciate your input.

Wow iPud, it was so weird reading your original post... i had to check the name at the top to make sure i hadn't actually written it and forgotten!!!

this is almost exactly my situation, except my overbearing, emotionally domineering mother was the one who has caused our 'estrangement'.

we have had a difficult relationship for ever, but especially the last 11/12 years since i 'chose' my DH over her and she ceased to be able to control my emotional state completely.

but we've maintained contact and she contined to tell people how close we were. then things got worse when my DD was born and she had to keep her (endless) opinions to herself about my parenting.

then last Christmas we went to hers instead of her coming to us for the first time in 4 years (which i knew was going to be hard work) and she basically picked on and criticised my DD (27months) constantly for 48 hours and then on boxing day announced to a collection of assembled family that it was so nice to have a cuddle with my cousins "lovely toddler because we've only got a horrible one"!!!!!

she previously had looked after DD on friday afternoons and when i called her the following week to cancel the arrangement, she went off on one and told me that not only did i not have right to expect her to let me parent DD in the way i wanted, in fact she was the one who was offended because DD "didn't follow her rules in her house" and that DD was a "monster" and we would regret not listening to her in a couple of years when she was "totally off the rails"...

Quite apart from how unsupportive and spiteful this was, DD is far from being a monster and is infact a delightful, affectionate, intelligent little girl who just happens not to be a robot who is so terrified of her mother that she never puts a foot out of line (like i was at that age)!! rant over!

anyway, long story short - we haven't spoken since, and tbh the longer it goes on the less inclined i am to try and re-establish a relationship with her. since Christmas there has only been 4 or 5 times i've felt like contacting her and that was only to share something funny/cute that DD had said or done.

it is sad, and i understand your hesitation, because we are programmed to think that family is the most important thing, but at the end of the day, if the family member in question makes you miserable or doesn't add value to your life then i don't think it's unreasonable to cool things with them. Especially when, in our cases, the welfare/ emotional development our our children is a factor.

good luck with whatever you decide...

Thanks for replying, FSB. That is weird. There seems to be a fair few shared traits. My mother also likes to make out that we are close. She astounded me a few weeks before I was due to give birth by wanting to check I knew to call her when I started to go into labour so she could come over and be in the room when I gave birth. As fucking if!!! She would have stressed me out more than helped, and we certainly do not have that relationship where I'd be comfortable with her seeing me naked either.

I am glad you are protecting your DD from your moher's words. If my mother was like that to my child, it would be easy to know what to do. But for me, it's her criticisms of me that have just got me to the end of my tether.
Then I think, but we should be ale to listen to criticisms and differing opinions, be open-minded that maybe we aren't in the right - should we not???

Oh and yes, we are absolutely conditioned/programmed to believe that blood s thicker than water, no one else can be there for you like family. And it feels hard to announce socially that you have cut off your mother, and how does that reflect on me. Not that I really care what people think, but it's still there in some small way.

It is easier for me to cut her off to protect DD, but equally what your mOther is doing is just as damaging to your son potentially. By criticising DD, my mother could end up directly damaging her self esteem, but your mother criticising u all the time in front of your son, will damage your relationship with him and shape his view of acceptable behaviour as he grows up... It's all very well accepting that people have differing opinions and that some people are cranky and antagonistic(!) but when that person is around a lot, it becomes an unhealthy influence I think...