oh god....is it really worth hanging in there??

[dateandwait]

I haven't been on mumsnet for quite a while but need your advice please!
I am two years separated from nearly xh and have had a couple of years of a really rough time coming out of it all. I've counselling, have great friends and have held my mental health together quite well.

Anyway,a few years down the line I have started dating this lovely bloke. We met online and couldn't believe I had met someone normal like me!! Things were going great although not all smooth due to at first my hesistance to get involved too quickly. He also was in no rush but after 4-5 months we agreed to met each others kids. They got on well, I relaxed, we kept it casual, went out a 2 or 3 times together.

Then he started to pull back big time. Stopped wanting us all to go out together, not spelling it out but suddenly the plans stopped being made. When I asked he said he didn't want to complicate things. He loved me, wanted to keep dating but without anyone else involved (i.e family, friends or kids). We nearly split up over it as I couldn't believe the turn around but thought I would give it time as his xw had just moved in with her new partner and the kids were adjusting etc. His xw appears to have been quite abusive verbally/controlling and had an affair. He has his kids 50% of the time. His mental health has suffered and he gave up his friends, hobbies and (I have now discovered) has severe social anxiety. He is awaiting counselling for this.

We have been together 10months. Dating and/or seeing each other (minus kids) 2 or 3 times a week. He is lovely to me, no red flags (except perhaps his baggage).

We get on great, he's respectful, loving, kind, considerate....basically everything I would look for in a partner. I absolutely love him to bits. I am in no rush or have any desire to move in, have a step dad to my kids or be a step mum at this point, but need something more (like perhaps the odd day out to the zoo with all our kids) and am getting myself in a pickle about pushing him to let me be involved in his life/his in mine, and just trying to keep things casual and not be a pushy girlfriend. It usually ends up with me getting emotional and feeling like a pushy teenager every 6 weeks when the subject comes up. He talks about our future together (unprompted!) and wanting to be with me very long term.

He has met my family and friends when it's just happened casually. I haven't contrived/pushed meetings. I have met his mum and dad for a few mins (they were babysitting) about 6 months ago but not since, but haven't met any other of his family or friends. He is very close to his family and sees them very regularly. I have met a few aquanticies of his (he hasn't really got close friends anymore).

I would like advice please, I want to hang in there, I want a relationship with him. I don't want to give him an ultimatum, but our year anniversary is looming and I feel I still haven't seen the full person and can't help wondering if we are going to be like this for another year or more....

Is it me making this an issue, I've lost prespective.. has anyone else had this problem....shall I wait and see or give up on a total commitment phobe...?? Advice welcome.. Thank you!!

Can you wait and see? Give him a bit of space? Its only been a year- think back to when you were a teenager and your parents advice to not rush in too soon (ok I know you're not a teenager and don't want to feel like a pushy one but...)

Just because we're adults doesn't mean we need to be in a full on relationship within months. Friendship and partnership stuff takes forever to develop. If he's worth waiting for I don't think you'd be questioning it- the fact that you are perhaps means that he's not.

Thanks EW
I know, I really do think he's worth waiting for. I have no desire to move in with him for perhaps years!! I've been badly hurt and I guess I'm deep down thinking that he's just not that into it. Everyone has said wait and see but I guess I am scared of getting hurt in a years time, it's hard to invest emotionally when someone isn't giving back and when you're sleeping with someone, you're investing emotions. The funny thing is if I try to push it I could stuff it up and if I walk away because I can't handle the uncertainty I stuff it up.
It's just so much on his terms. I'm a bloody control freak clearly!!
running back to counsellor

So, things were going swimmingly, you met up with your respective dc a couple of times and all went out together 'en famille', and briefly met his dps on one occasion 6 months ago, since when he has pulled back.

I suspect some 'outside' influence here.

Maybe his dc didn't get along with you and yours quite as well as you thought? Having given you a quick once over, perhaps his dps were concerned at the speed with which his relationship with you was progressing - it may be that they were concerned that you were merely 'separated' as opposed to divorce and were seeking to protect him in case you reuinted with your stbx, or he got caught up in any possible crossfire caused by the formal ending of your marriage?

As you don't seem to be overly anxious to 'blend' your respective families, I would suggest you go with the flow until you've got your absolute and he's had a few counselling sessions before you suggest having the occasional 'joint outing' that will reassure you that he intends to make good on his talk of a long term future together 'one day'.

I suspect that his dc's told the ex and she has ordered him not to allow them to meet you again or she'll cut his contact. My bil's ex did this when he got a new girlfriend. She's eased off now but they are not allowed to talk about her or apparently she will "smack" them

I realise that he has baggage and you are afraid of pushing him but you need to think of yourself too. Do you really want a relationship with someone who is forever up and down, doesn't know what he needs and is easily influenced by others? It seems to me that after everything you've been through, you could do with someone a little stronger? However if you do want to make a go of it then you need to exert a little influence yourself. Next time you meet explain the situation to him, make him realise that at the moment it's all on his terms which is hardly fair to you and your kids. A year is a long time in a relationship without it going anywhere. Tell him that you understand the delicacy of the situation and that you would not want to do anything which would threaten his relationship with his children, but he cannot be dictated to by his ex for the rest of his life. She is getting on with her own life now and he deserves the same.

You need a little more commitment than he is currently showing, so see if you can't reach a compromise. However if his ex is using the kids to get to him then it may be a case of him having to choose either you or the kids and of course the kids would win every time. If he cannot compromise then unfortunately you may have to walk away from this one or you could be put on hold forever.

Thank you for your replies.
Izzy I did think that the kids didn't get on that well, but I thought they did. His are a bit more excitable than mine, but they are similiar ages and played together really nicely. There was only one inicident when his ds kicked me in over enthusiastic play and I (very politely and gently) said "please don't that hurts" in a kind of silly non threatening voice (was meeting number 2) and dp said "don't kick hard" which kid of made me think we are on different pages!! I would have told mine off and just said "don't kick" full stop.

Didn't see it as a problem but obviously after all this time I have overanalysed tried to think of everything that happened. His kids were particularly easily attached to me, very tactile and friendly, his ds holding my hand or physically touching me (like running up tickling or swinging off my arms, sitting up next to me) so I realised he is probably very insecure around women. His mum has been quite physically distant. I think this scared dp and I don't know that he would be able to put a finger on and articulate why he feels uncomfortable but just does....

I am vaguely involved in child protection at timesso maybe he's terrified I might pick up severe mental torture his kids have been through during his break up......???

Rubarb
I have also thought the x might be influencing here. In fact she was very much in control of things when I first met him. Although she was in a long term affair she refused to move out even though he had given her large amounts of money. However she did agree to email me to explain they were over but I didn't want to get involved in that so left it. She is in a relationship with another woman now. She knew about us meeting with the children. She made no attempt to stop it happening as far as I could make out. We have had talks about him getting on with his life. He is TERRIFIED about her stopping him having the kids 50% (he would have them 100%), although I doubt this would happen due to her not having the kids much when they were living together and her agreeing to the 50% split in the first place. There was no custody battle. However two solicitors told him she could just change her mind and the courts would give her full time custody, so I can't really reassure him much there as that could happen.

We have talked about it and it ends up with him saying he's going to have to think alot about us and says he realises how screwed up he is and how he needs to sort it out. But nothing ever changes.

I don't want to give up on him because he has been in an abusive relationship, but you're right, there has to be compromise....

You can't rescue everyone and save them from themselves, honey...

How old are his dc?

You are not responsible for what has happened to him. It sounds strange that his ex felt she had to email you to let you know that it was over, that doesn't sound very controlling to me. Did he ask her to do that? And if so, why?

You have yourself to think of as well as your own children and after all you have been through, you deserve a break. This man comes with A LOT of baggage it seems and whilst he is happy to admit to this, he is not so happy to do anything about it. I get the impression that he is fine with the relationship going along as it is for the foreseeable future but you are not. So your choices are that you either put up with it as it is, because he's never going to change it, or you pressurise him into offering more. He'll either compromise or he'll be scared off.

You need to ask yourself just how much time you want to invest into a man who is happy to invest very little in you.

Sorry, but I'd be tempted to walk away from this one. You sound much more committed than he does and that's never a good sign. He's had his chances and you really aren't responsible for his life. Many other people have been in abusive relationships and they've picked themselves up and started afresh, this man hasn't and maybe his character dictates that he just isn't good at making decisions and is more than happy to just plod along. If so then you've a fight on your hands to change the person that he is.

God I know. I keep thinking I'm on to a no win situation here. I'm getting fed up with it.
The annoying thing is he was so perfect when we started out. It seemed we were both totally on the same page. Not meeting kids for months etc. I feel like I let down my guard, got involved, fell in love. Then BAM....now I find myself commited to him and I find it hard to give up on people once I've let them in. I really thought he was worth hanging in there for. It's doing my head in and I have been through too much for this. I have really got myself sorted financially and have recently moved to a beautiful house, so it's hardly like I'm wanting for anything from him, except a loving relationship without bloody rules about not seeing each others kids.
I wish I didn't like him so bloody much. It's so hard to find a bloke that you like so much about and you can see a future with. There's so many pratts out there!!!!! Damn it.

All our kids are little 5, 6, 8, 10

Yes there are many prats out there but there are also many decent, loving men without baggage.

Look, once you state your case and he sees that he is in danger of losing you he just might pull his socks up. Or he might not and that is what you have to remember. There is no harm in having him as a very close friend (which is what he might want - with no further commitment) but do you really want to be in the same position in a further 5 years?

Now that you are settled, with a lovely home and are happy with your lot then why not stop looking? Enjoy being single, go out with friends, enlist yourself in a class or start a college course. It's often when we are happiest with our independence that love comes knocking and NOT when we are looking for it. Apparently we send off needy signals when we are looking that attracts the wrong kind of bloke, whereas whilst we are happy and having a great time we are sending all the right kind of signals to all the right kind of men.

There are decent blokes out there, don't give up and think that this man is all you can manage. He is actually knocking your confidence by behaving in this way and that you really don't need after all you've achieved so far. Let him go back to his plodding whilst you start enjoying your life and celebrating your achievements. I guarantee you won't be single for long once you stop looking.

I know you're right and it's not like I am particularly bothered about having a boyfriend as such, just I wasn't looking and he came along. I was online dating just to get out and have fun really.
I really didn't expect to meet someone I liked online let alone fall in love with. I have been single for a good two years and love the companionship of just going out on dates and chatting.
I have a great job, fab friends, am pretty damn busy, except my x has the kids one night a week so going out is limited. I never meet men on the off chance as my life is school gates and work (I wouldn't meet anyone at work due to the nature of my job). If I go out with my mates, I don't meet anyone because I'm with my mates so being chatted up just isn't on the agenda. Hence I started online dating to go out for the odd meal and have a giggle!

I guess I need to think about being alone for longer. I am just gutted. At the end of the day while it's great being single and I love it, I do like being in a relationship and sex and have been single most of my life (except the years with x). I have a career, travelled and educated myself whilst single. I am studying at the moment. I just thought I'd happened to find someone amazing to enrich my life. But you're right, it is draining me

It's not a healthy relationship though is it? It does appear to be entirely on his terms which makes you wonder who controlled who in his previous relationship? It almost seems like he waited until you fell in love with him, he made you think that things would progress and then he pulled the rug from underneath you and now wants to keep you hanging on by using emotional issues as an excuse. That's just me being cynical but from what I've learnt on Mumsnet, some people are really that controlling and that snide.

He might not be on the other hand. Either way you've nowt to lose by showing him your cards. He either accepts the relationship now on your terms or he continues being single himself. It may be the push he needs, you never know.

Remember, when you are in a steady relationship you'll look back on your single days with a nostalgic tear in your eye!

Thanks Rhubarb
I have considered his issues and do think he may indeed have control issues, but more about his control over himself and seems to have this pressure on himselfto be the perfect everything (dad, bfriend), even though I don't want the perfect boyfriend in terms of daing, just a nice relaxed relationship!!
I have tried to look for signs of controlling behaviour in the sense that he wants to control me, but just can't see it in him, apart from the obvious control of the relatioship boundries.
I like to think I'm a good judge of character, but he's really giving me very little to go on as I think people are genreally very different around parents and as parents, you can't hide your true personality in those situations very well. I just thought I would wait to get the full picture of him, but now it's taking too long.
My deepest fear is that he wants out but hasn't got the backbone to finish with me, again no grounds I have found for that, but thats my hangups kicking in!!!
I did show him my cards a few weeks ago (and previously) but I get really upset and cry. I think this scares him, he thinks I'm a fruit loop and I get the distinct feeling I'm back to square one (he thinks...oh god, glad my kids don't know this nutter). He's very reassuring and loving and seems to take it all on board, blames himself, says he will think about things.......and on we merrily go. He won't be pushed, will not take pressure.

Ahhhhh fuck it. I think it's over isn't it.....

Thanks Rhubarb
I have considered his issues and do think he may indeed have control issues, but more about his control over himself and seems to have this pressure on himselfto be the perfect everything (dad, bfriend), even though I don't want the perfect boyfriend in terms of daing, just a nice relaxed relationship!!
I have tried to look for signs of controlling behaviour in the sense that he wants to control me, but just can't see it in him, apart from the obvious control of the relatioship boundries.
I like to think I'm a good judge of character, but he's really giving me very little to go on as I think people are genreally very different around parents and as parents, you can't hide your true personality in those situations very well. I just thought I would wait to get the full picture of him, but now it's taking too long.
My deepest fear is that he wants out but hasn't got the backbone to finish with me, again no grounds I have found for that, but thats my hangups kicking in!!!
I did show him my cards a few weeks ago (and previously) but I get really upset and cry. I think this scares him, he thinks I'm a fruit loop and I get the distinct feeling I'm back to square one (he thinks...oh god, glad my kids don't know this nutter). He's very reassuring and loving and seems to take it all on board, blames himself, says he will think about things.......and on we merrily go. He won't be pushed, will not take pressure.

Ahhhhh fuck it. I think it's over isn't it.....

ooops once was enough!!

So sorry. Yes perhaps there is a side to him that he doesn't want you to see, or perhaps he isn't telling you the full story regarding his ex and is afraid the children will blurt something out? In any case, you don't deserve to be messed around like this. He can clearly see how upset you are by it all and yet he refuses to do anything about it, which would indicate that he really isn't that committed.

Look on the positives, it was fun, it got you out, you had some great sex and some great times with him. You are now ready to move onto a committed relationship so it's time to move on - who knows what might happen in the next year?

Thanks so much for your advice Rhubarb......onwards and upwards hopefully!!!
xxxxxx

I was hoping others would come on to give you some varied advice dateandwait as I don't know you personally so please do confide in some rl friends too and see what they think. You say you have some great pals so I'm sure they would be more than happy to offer a listening ear

Thanks
Am talking to a RL friend again tonight, she's heard the whole story!!! Since I've lent on my friends so much in the last few years I don't want to sound like I'm a complete neurotic moaning mini when I've found someone they all think is lovely!!!!
I bloody love mumsnet. You sound like my RL friend anyway!!!
Thanks again xxxx

Social anxiety is awful. It is so hard to force yourself to be out in public. You can get over it though with meds and counselling got the t-shirt

I know Katie, I've suffered myself with it and managed to overcome it mainly. I know what it's like though. However if you have the t shirt....can you tell me....did it affect you when you had introduce family members to others? I felt very anxious when he met mine but he was very keen for me to meet his at first, but I put it off for a while as it was too soon (and he surprised me with it.....oh my parents, kids, sister, bro in law, are over there, I want you to meet them) when we had discussed not meeting them for a while, so I said I'd rather not. I feel like I'm paying dearly for that now!!!!

I was so bad I would vomit at the thought of talking to anyone who did not know about my illness, that included close family members.

I would have done or said literally anything to get out of having to talk to people when I was at my worst, despite going to work every day where my job is to have very personal discussions with people. I needed tranquillisers to do that though...

Thanks for telling me your experience Katie, it must be very hard work to get through the day avoiding situations. I remember it well.
In some situations he seems more confident than me, even though he has said he hasbeen crapping himself for days!! When he met my family (I was moving house) he literally walked into a room of people and said hello to each of them and kissed the women on the cheek! I would have been a quivering wreck and waved vaguely in everyones direction!! He has also socialised with my friends and chatted happily although has explained to me he likes to stay busy so I have helped him find a task (like cooking) to do to take the pressure off. Then he's fine. Appears outgoing, chatty and friendly. In he waiting for group therapy at the moment.
I guess it doesn't really matter as it is probably a seperate issue from the relationship moving on, but just thought the refusal to introduce me to family could be related. However could blame the social anxiety for everything.....

I was always much more relaxed when in the immediate company of either of my DC (Mummy Power) or someone close who knew that I might have to leave immediately if the fear came upon me

It was when I had to do things alone that I was at my worst. Maybe on family meet-n-greet he was having a good period?

I am fine and dandy these days, have been for a while. Life is good.