Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What is a normal relationship? I have no clue, and it's not surprising really.

25 replies

grinningbee · 24/02/2012 15:00

I could have namechanged for this, but heck, what's the point. This is going to be a bit long, and I might not be able to get everything in one post (I shan't mean to drip feed), but this needs doing. When your relationship seems more fantastic (in a what more could go wrong sort of way) than an episode of a soap, then I reckon it's time to look at it properly. Apologies if there are breaks - I have 2 small dc who like to try and turn the laptop off!

Let's start at the very beginning.

I was very very unworldly when I met Dh. I was 35, and never had a relationship. I met him online. I had been living alone for just over 10 years and never thought I'd meet anyone, being a very shy person who couldn't say boo to a goose.

He was an alcoholic. Used to drink in excess of 20 pints a night, and still drive over to see me, which involved coming down the M1. But somehow there was a charm, and one month after we met he proposed. I honestly don't know now what the attraction was. Attention? I don't know. We got married within 6 months, and I was only actually given 3 weeks notice of the wedding as he booked the registry office. Why I didn't speak up about it, I can't tell you. I suppose I got caught up in it all.

I do wonder if the wedding was a ploy to help him though. That sounds bad, and I have no proof.

What I didn't know the whole time was that there was a court case looming for tax fraud. He set the wedding date 11 days before the court case. I only found out about the court case just before the wedding, but the severity was downplayed. On the day itself, he gave me the wedding ring back and told me to look after it. I was somewhat upset to say the least. He should have gone to prison for 2 years, but because he was deemed to have turned over a new leaf (recently married) and whatever his "team" came up with (I wasn't allowed in the court roon so will never know), he got a suspended sentence and a tag for 6 months. So we spent the first 6 months of married life not able to do anything. And still I stuck with him.

I moved away from my hometown, my friends, my job, my family, sold my house... oh boy. He handed in his notice for his job the day after we married, so we relied on the job I got. He spent that summer watching the football and cricket, and drinking in the sunshine.

He decided to go self employed, and the equity from my house disappeared. We tried that for a while, it didn't work out, so now he does something else. We've been through an mc, he's had cancer and various other bits and bobs, and we now have 2 small dc.

But. And here's the main point after all the lead up. He's a serial liar. I have uncovered lies about being at work when he is actually out drinking, or being on the way home when he's at the pub literally doors down from here. He's lied to other people, pretending to be me, saying some terrible things to get out of paying debts. He even pretended to be his own non-existent brother claiming that he was dead.

It's all come to a head. I cannot trust him. With 20/20 hindsight, I should have bailed out long ago.

He just cannot seem to tell me the truth, and can you live like that, never knowing whether to believe someone? I told him last night that if he cannot change, we have to end it.

He said to me that because I seem to expect him to do wrong he thinks to himself "oh f* it, I may as well do it then". But he says he never wants to lose me or the dc.

I am in a very sticky situation, I'm sure you'll agree. I have a 1 and 2 year old, and have been isolated away from everything although that is beginning to change slowly now that dd goes to playgroup and I am meeting people.

What on earth can I do? How many more chances do you give someone like this?

Sorry for the long post - I don't want to be accused of drip feeding, and while the dc are busy playing I can type it in one go!

Sorry if anything doesn't make sense - trying to do this quickly.

OP posts:
SpacegirlRevisited · 24/02/2012 15:06

I think you have been very generous with chances 'bee.

Time to be kind to yourself and your little ones and maybe that means going it alone.

NatashaBee · 24/02/2012 15:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 24/02/2012 15:15

What do you get out of this relationship now?.

Why did you walk into this situation without noticing or perhaps even wanting to hear all the alarm bells that came with him?.

Have you also considered the non too distance possibility that you've been used by him since day 1 for his own ends and to perhaps even avoid a longer prison sentence?. Did no alarm bells ring at all for you when he proposed marriage after only a month?.

Have you considered divorcing him now?.

grinningbee · 24/02/2012 15:34

Attila the thought has crossed my mind. But with everything we've been through, the thought it may have been a sham is gutting.

Why did I walk into it - naivity (sp?). I really didn't know any better. I'd like to give myself a shake now though, if I could.

What do I get out of it? At the moment, not a lot. Worry. If only he could sort himself out... but the trust is gone.

Have I considered divorce? Yes. There wouldn't be any support, but I'm sure lots of people manage on their own. We would certainly have to. He's self employed and doesn't bring in very much. I think we'd lose contact completely, but that's just a gut thought.

Yes, I am very stupid. Or at least, I was back then. But at least I have my two lovely dc out of it all.

OP posts:
AgathaFusty · 24/02/2012 15:36

It sounds as though the scales have finally fallen from your eyes.

You know that you can't bring up your children with this poor example of a relationship as their life, don't you. It's time now to think of what would be best for you and them, not for him. If that means going back to your home town then do that. If it means staying where you are now, but without him, then do that.

WA will help you plan, but start now yourself. Gather every piece of documentation that you might need. Also bank statements, and any evidence that he has taken your money and squandered it.

If there is someone that you feel you can trust, then talk to them, whether that is a family member, friend, or another Mum from nursery - you need to start building a network around you.

I'm sure you don't want to be living this way in 5, 10, 20 years time, but if you don't take action now, that is exactly what you will be doing.

grinningbee · 24/02/2012 15:37

Can't actually believe I started this thread. Bit scared tbh, on the one hand I have a lifetime of potential worry about more lies, or on the other trying to bring up the dc on my own.

Neither option is what I had in mind 6.5 years ago... Sad

OP posts:
grinningbee · 24/02/2012 15:41

By the way, if I disappear off, it's because someone has come home. I will try to get back on here as and when, but coming into the weekend, it could be difficult for obvious reasons.

Please don't think I've abandoned it.

OP posts:
SorryMyLollipop · 24/02/2012 15:45

What reason did he give for leaving his job the day after you got married? I would say run for thr hills, you have been very generous with him and it doesn't sound like he deserves or appreciates you at all.

You ask what a normal relationship is? Its one where both people want to get married (without any pressure) and where they plan and share the excitement together beforehand, where the couple exist in a mutual and trusting partnership. Minimum.

You say "he was an alcoholic" but he goes off drinking and lies about it?

At least you have 20/20 hindsight now bee.

SorryMyLollipop · 24/02/2012 15:46

You are being very brave, it takes courage to face up to things like this.

grinningbee · 24/02/2012 15:54

Thank you.

The reality is he's never stopped being an alcoholic I suppose. It's not as if I restrict anything so he has to do it in secret. He has regular days out with the lads, and goes to the pub a couple of times a week.

He is under no illusion now that one more thing means we're done. I've just spoken to him now and said we need to talk again over the weekend. He says the right things, and claims to adore the dc. He loves them, plays with them etc as is a good dad in that respect... but why then does he disrespect me so much, and expect me to just carry on as normal?

OP posts:
MMMarmite · 24/02/2012 16:00

So sorry that you're in this situation grinningbee. It must be incredibly stressful sharing a house and raising children with someone who you lies to you.

Do you see your old friends and family much, or did you end up losing contact with them during all this?

ivykaty44 · 24/02/2012 16:08

I was married to a liar, he wasn't an alcoholic but simply lied for the sake of it and sometime lied for a reason, the reason was to cover his tracks when he was having an affair.

I came to realise with a sudden bolt that it was going to be easier on my own as I wouldn't lie to myself and that our marriage was a lie and I didn't want to wonder which parts of the marriage where lies and which parts where real - as I didn't know anymore and it hurt my head if i tried to work out which was which.

I had a best friend who was a recovering alcoholic and he explained that alcoholics lie to cover their tracks and their spouse will often lie to cover their shame. The understanding of the lies when we talked was their though which was a comfort, sadly he is dead now but we talked a lot and in some eays I put the lies to bed and the marriage of lies behind me.

from a distance I watched him lie to the next wife and now he does it again with the third wife - but I have little to do with his webs of lies and crap which is good for my soul

tunaday · 24/02/2012 17:04

For the purpose of this message I should really change my nickname to 'wise after the event woman'. Am soooo sorry to hear about all this. Have to say I totally agree with the general concensus so far. If you can't believe anything you are told, keeping the relationship going and giving more chances, will just prolong the pain. I never heard the alarm bells ringing with my ex until they were literally clanging infront of my face like Notre Dame at Easter. Never thought for a second that his reluctance to discuss finances/work/savings etc was due to the fact that he was up to no good. I completely trusted him. It took till he was fired from his job, arrested for setting up a fake charity and robbing deceased clients estates, and my discovery that he had stolen my late Mother's inheritance money, had re-mortgaged our house twice without my knowledge and run up £250,000 of personal debts in our joint names also without my knowledge, for me to realise that I'd spent the last 23 years with a totally immoral, serial liar who did not have our daughter's or my welfare at heart and that our entire 23 year old marriage and the life we had lived was a sham. I ended up divorced, homeless, in debt and penniless and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

If your partner is a serial liar then I think what has happened to me is a good illustration of the worst-case-scenario of the sheer havoc that someone with this behaviour can wreak on his 'nearest and dearest' given the opportunity. My daughter was 19 when all this went down and she started taking serious drugs to blot out the pain of discovering she couldn't believe a word her father said and of what he had done both at work and at home. She had to face her father staring out at her from the front page of the local rag, branded as a thief. How that must have felt for her I can only imagine. She'd have fared much better with just myself as a role-model. She deserved so much better and so much more. To not be able to believe anything a parent says is beyond sad and she, unsurprisingly, finds it nearly impossible to trust anyone. I know changing the status quo can be so hard and stressful and scary but staying for years with someone you can't believe and who you can't respect can be far harder, more stressful and scarier and ultimately more damaging to yourself and your DC in the long run in my experience. I didn't realise until too late that my ex was a serial liar. You have the benefit of that knowledge much much earlier down the line. I'm not saying (and I hope to God that you don't) that you and the DCs will end up in as much mess as we did but I wanted you to read about my experience in case it was helpful to you in any way grinningbee.

kid · 24/02/2012 18:32

bee, I think you need to carefully weigh up the pros and cons of both staying and going.
If you stayed, what exactly is going to change? Will you be happy living this same life in 5 years time? His track record isn't exactly looking promising to change so it could be the same in a number of years.
What will your DC get out of seeing you and DH in an unhappy relationship. Maybe they do see some happy moments together, but he has to be there for you as well as the DC. He needs to be a good husband as well as a good dad.

If you leave, of course it will be hard. You will have to be sole carer for your DC but I'm guessing you probably are most of the time anyway. You will be responsible for your own money and be able to make your own decisions.
You will also be able to bring your DC up in a happy home which is full of love and truth.

Don't make a hasty decision. I really think you need to get some professional advice and to find out what help there is out there available for you.

I do wish you luck in working it all out. Wish I could help in some way.

izzyizin · 24/02/2012 18:32

That is one seriously powerful post, tuna and I sincerely hope that your poor dd is out of the woods now.

What your serial liar has in common with tuna's bee, is that they are both con men - essentially out for themselves and not caring one iota for anyone else, including their nearest and dearest.

In your case, he saw you coming - and you came along just when he needed to reinvent himself to persuade a court of law that he was a 'reformed character'.

Running through the proceeds of the sale of your former home was, in effect, something of a Brucie bonus and, if he hadn't had those funds to divert him, he would have dipped his fingers into another till.

The problem is that he most probably does have his hand where it shouldn't be but you, of course, will not know until the police knock on your front door at some unearthly hour of the morning.

You deserve more - and, more importantly, so do your dc.

CantSleepWontSleep · 24/02/2012 18:39

Am quite speechless bee (and tunaday). Obv I knew some of it already, but not all the early stuff.
Clearly you need to ltb, but what you really need is a plan for how.
Good advice from NatashaBee to get in touch with Women's aid. That def sounds like the most sensible first port of call.
Do you have any close friends that you can confide in in RL - someone who could come to WA with you, or look after your dc whilst you are there?
Do you have enough of a network of friends in your area that you would want to stay there, or would you be happy to move elsewhere in the country?
You might find that your family welcome you back into the fold with open arms, happy that you have seen the light and got away from him.

debka · 24/02/2012 20:37

bee from what you've said here, I think leaving your H would be the best option. You are a lovely, kind person who has been used terribly. I am so sorry that you have been treated like this. If you leave him now, or soon, you can reclaim your life and start being happy and free again. Your DCs won't have to grow up seeing you in this relationship.

There is no reason why he should lose his DCs. My parents divorced when I was very young and my dad made the effort to carry on being my dad and was still there for me and my sister. That one is up to him, if he loves his children of course he won't lose them.

Riapwhatyousow · 24/02/2012 22:19

Sad bee, had no idea what you've been through up 'til now. I am so sorry that it has all turned out the way it has, but as you say, you do have your 2 lovely DC out of it, and they and you should be your priority from now on, whatever the future holds.

Do you think he is doing anything illegal ATM? Presumably all the court stuff etc was common knowledge at the time? Would MIL be on your side if she knew he was straying back to his old ways?

Hoping you get loads of support and advice now you have found the courage to start the thread x

Glenshee · 24/02/2012 22:54

You may find this book helpful: Women Who Love Too Much

lovesineffable · 25/02/2012 01:12

Bee, I want to wish you the very best of luck and I dont have any advice but the man does, from your account, sound sociopathic/psychopathic.
And therefore unlikely to change

Cheeseandbiscuits · 25/02/2012 11:01

Oh bee.

I didn't really how bad things were/are. Well first of all, you have realised what sort of a man he is. The next step is deciding how to deal with it. That is the hardest one of all, I imagine.

I think the womans aid advice is a great one. I think you need to leave him. He has consistently abused your trust. And trust is the foundation of all relationships. He is a terrible role model for your children. tunaday has given you a glimpse of what could happen in the future, best to act now.

I have known you for about a year on MN. I know you have the inner strength to do what needs to be done. You are funny, intelligent and incredibly kind. You will manage just fine without him, I just know it. Can you rebuild the bridges with your family? Sometimes, it just takes a phone call to get the ball rolling ESP if they know you are in trouble/struggling.

Let us know how you are getting on over the weekend.

tunaday sorry to hear about what happened to you. I hope you and your DD are managing to rebuild your life.

tunaday · 25/02/2012 18:01

I don't want to monopolise Bee's posts but thanks to those of you who have said how sorry they are about what happened to DD and me. After years of fire-fighting the effects of the shit ex-DH left me in, I emerged much more resilliant, adaptable and strong. DD is off drugs thank God, but has since said that if it wasn't for meeting her present boyfriend she could well have gone the same way as Amy Winehouse! Not what you want to hear as a Mum! I live in a tiny housing association flat now (my ex reduced every asset we ever had to less than worthless), on not much money but I am in charge of my own life/decisions/money and free from all the fakery/bullshit and general shit my DH engaged in. And that feels wonderful.

I feel naive that I never saw it coming till it was too late and just wanted to post so that anyone who is living wih a serial liar can see just how badly things CAN spiral out of control. Like throwing a pebble in a pond, the effects create ring upon ring of heartbreak, emotional damage and insecurity (emotional and financial) Having to re-build your life from scratch with £750 to your name in your mid-40s really isn't something I'd recommend.

Bee, I hope you soon work out what to do and send you all best wishes and hugs.

Riapwhatyousow · 25/02/2012 18:12

so glad you and your DD are out the other side tunaday. take care.

hope you are OK today bee.

pixiestix · 26/02/2012 09:22

I echo everything that Cheese has said. If anyone can do this, you can Bee.

SlinkyB · 29/02/2012 20:18

Sorry I'm late to the thread, just wanted to say I also agree with what cheeseandbiscuits very eloquently said. Hope you find the strength to do what needs to be done, and get all the support you need .

New posts on this thread. Refresh page