My mum excludes me when we're together with my DC, am I handling this correctly?

[HexagonalQueenOfTheSummer]

As some of you know, I've had ongoing issues with my mum, after she emotionally abused me as a child, in many ways but one of the main ways was favouring my sister over me and excluding me. I posted a few months ago about how she still does this when we all meet up as a family and I made a conscious decision not to play happy families any longer and not to see my mum if my sister was there too. I did plan to tackle my mum but decided against this as I don't think it would achieve anything other than give my mum and sister more to bitch about. Also my mum would just turn it round to being about herself and how upset she is etc etc and it would get out of proportion with her involving the whole family.

Anyway, I have noticed when she comes to see me and the DCs she has started excluding me. For example she will be all snappy with me or ignore anything I say but be all loving with the children. If I tell the children off for whatever reason she huffs and puffs or starts saying things like "I'm going home if you're going to be like this". I know she is trying to control me via the children. She popped round the other day and every time I said anything to her she just looked at me like I had crap all over my face but then was being over the top affectionate and attentive with the children. I've noticed she also ignores me in favour of my husband, always asking him how he is, and questions about his work but never asks me anything about myself.

When she does it now I've started walking off and letting her get on with it. When she ignored me the other day she was at my house in the living room and I walked off into the kitchen and started loading the dishwasher. She inevitably comes to find me after a while, huffy that I haven't basically sat there whilst she ignores me. I think she doesn't like losing the power and control over me. We bumped into her in our village as well a few days ago, we were all out for a walk and she started walking with us and again totally ignored me and started asking my husband all about himself, so again I walked off ahead with DS in his buggy and let her get on with it. She will also always make a big point of defending DH in front of me if DH and I disagree on anything. The other day DH wanted me to pick him up from somewhere later that day but I said I couldn't as I was doing something else, and my mum started saying "Oh well if she's going to be mean I will pick you up". Basically she looks for any opportunity to undermine me. Am I doing the right thing in ignoring her?

She emotionally abused you as a child and continues to do so via your children. They will notice this no two ways about it and given time your mother may well start favouring one child over the other. You have to protect them; unfortunately you were not yourself protected as a child. The adults in your early life failed you abjectly.

This is about power and control as you rightly surmise; she is losing this over you.

You and your DH need to present a united front with regards to this person and your DH also needs to stand up for you. BTW don't walk off like you did; it only gives her more ammo to use against you.

Please do not expose the children any longer to such a toxic influence; many children now adults of toxic parents often have FOG (gear, obligation, guilt) of their toxic parent and hope against hope that they will somehow have an epiphany and change (this will not happen). Toxic parents like your mother take no responsibility for their actions nor apologise for them. They are more than adept to blame others i.e you in this case for their inherent ills.

I would also suggest you look at the "well we took you to stately homes" thread and read "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward.

OK, so, this woman gave birth to you, but apart from that is there any reason in the entire universe that you want her in your life? At all? Ever?

What does her presence actually bring that is positive to yours and the children's lives?

Thanks everyone.

Attila, walking off kind of seems the only option really as at least I'm not letting her ignore me, I'm ignoring her, if that makes sense?

walking off kind of seems the only option really as at least I'm not letting her ignore me, I'm ignoring her, if that makes sense?

Why engage with her on her terms? That's what this sounds like.

Can you ignore her to its logical conclusions, i.e. end all contact, and not care that she won't like that?

What does your husband say about it?

I came from a family like that and in the end I ditched them. Hard but better for me. It got to that stage.

At the minute, you are taking yourself away when it starts, yes? But she is following you? Could you bear to be honest about why you are doing this, even tho there may be fallout?

Say for example, you pick one fight to have, instead of walking away, you respond to one of her many comments and tell her straight up, to her face, what you are doing and why you are doing it. Cue the fallout, she may leave, she may cry, she may blame you etc. But then after that, the cards will have been placed on the table and it will be easier to avoid her.

I would suggest you tell her whats up and why, and then try as hard as you can to avoid her, apart from when you choose. If people question you, tell them the truth. If she chases you round the village, tell her the truth.

'You have been cruel and unkind to me my entire life, and you continue to try and do so now. You are emotionally manipulative and I have had enough.'

If I ended all contact my dad would feel that he couldn't have contact with the DCs either as she would railroad him and the rest of the family, such as my grandparents, into not speaking to me and convincing them I was horrible.

It is better to let it get out in the open, for everyone. They all know what she's like don't they?

When I did it, I lost my brother, who said 'If she's starting on Mum, then I choose Mum.'

But my grandmother said 'She's always been like this you know, all of your life, leaving you out of everything.' So some of them stuck by me.

I drew 2 conclusions from the experience -

1. What sort of people stood by while this went on and how much respect did I have for them now I was an adult myself???
2. It may be hard to do, but getting the elephant out in the open meant no more pain of that level for me.

Which brings me to this point - what support have you got yourself? Can you afford to pay a counselor for a few sessions? Invaluable as I think these are confusing times, as you make a huge move in life, a move forward definitely. but one which will shift all tectonic plates in life....

and is that a price worth paying?

Other people will act as they will. You can't control how they behave - how you think they will behave - by placating your mum.

I've been having counselling for the past year or so, something2say, which has been so helpful and has really helped with my self esteem and to develop an acceptance of how my mum behaved. My counsellor says I'm doing the right thing by just walking off when my mum starts to behave in an undermining way or ignoring me, like I would if, say, a friend kept doing that to me.

That is a good point HotDAMN.

Thanks again everyone for the replies :)

Next tome she does something like this and your dh is there, you wander off as you have started doing and get him to bring it up in conversation with your mum, just curious rather than threatening and get him to ask why she keeps putting you down at the expense of him, the dc and your sis.

Say that he's noticed it and that whilst you haven't said anything to him he can tell how much you are upset by it because he has noticed your coping strategies. And then see what she says.

Alternatively get your dh to speak to your dad about it... Or your sis (or does she not notice - conveniently - as she doesn't want to be turned into the outcast one?). Then at least in bigger family situations your dh or dad could ask your mum if she realised she was being horrid to you when she was iyswim.

It's a horrible thing for her to be doing.

My sister treats me the same way as my mum does, Zipzap. She and my mum really close ranks against me. My sister speaks to me as a second class citizen and snaps at me if she's in a bad mood.

If you say anything, they will try and turn it around against you. I would still say something, and then barricade against hearing what they have to say. You are not wrong here, you don't have to put up with this, well done so far. x

"If I ended all contact my dad would feel that he couldn't have contact with the DCs either as she would railroad him and the rest of the family, such as my grandparents, into not speaking to me and convincing them I was horrible".

Would he really feel that?. Sounds like your mother has got him under her thumb. I would not let your Dad off then hook either; he did not do a sterling job either in protecting you from your Mother's excesses of behaviour did he?.

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles; yours is scapegoat, your sister's is golden child (itself a role not without price though your sister is too stupid to realise that) and your Dad in all this dysfunction seems to be the bystander i.e acts out of self preservation and want of a quiet life.

You really need to seriously consider having no contact with any of your immediate birth family at all. They will just keep on and on at you otherwise.

My dad isn't as bad as my mum but did play a part in the abuse I guess, always sticking by my mum, and being a bit neglectful to me emotionally. He's not like it at all now though, I think he respects me more as an adult, and he is a really good grandparent. I do think if my mum fell out with me he would too though, like you say for a quiet life.

Well there comes a time when one has to stop selling one's soul for a quiet life. Much as you love your Dad, you love yourself more, and that is a primitive sort of love, and he ought to be encouraging it in you. He ought to see what you have done, and raise you a pair of balls of his own, and stand up to his wife, and then she ought to change and so on.

We will see what happens. But the only people you have responsibility to are yourself and your own little family.

Gotta say tho, where is your husband in all this? My boyfriends have all stuck up for me with my parents. I loved that about them.

He knows what I mean when I say about what happens but he doesn't really stick up for me as such. He would if there was a confrontation but he's one of those that is so laid back he's horizontal and his idea of dealing with things like that is just to ignore it or leave it

Would it cost him so much to say (when she tries to monopolise him) "oh Hex is doing such and such, isn't she fab?" and redirecting the conversation instead of getting sucked into it?

I think she doesn't like losing the power and control over me

This is the crux isn't OP - she has sensed the loss of power (due to your counselling I suspect) and is trying to manipulate you in another way - changed the game as it were.

I'd sort of do the ignoring her ridiculous behaviour, but when you leave to load dishwasher, for example, and then she follows you - I'd look completely blankly at her when she tries to imply you walked away and speak in a normal voice

"Mother, I have no idea what you are talking about, I'm just loading the dishwasher" - what answer will she have to that?

When walking ahead with the buggy

"Mother I have no idea what you are talking about, I am having a lovely walk with my child"

TBF to your husband it is probably difficult for him to comprehend when he doesn't have the same emotional ties as you - people that haven't had experience of this behaviour tend to revert back to "oh but she's your mother" and have no idea what damage these types of parents can inflict on their children.

When I finally had my epiphany (I realised it didn't matter what I did, nothing would ever be good enough, I would never be good enough) I actually felt empowered and after a lot of counselling, I now keep them at arms length and when they start on their ridiculous behaviour I just laugh inside and let it roll off me like water off a ducks back - I can honestly say that the in between times when I don't speak to them or see them I don't even give them a second thought.

Good luck OP

Yes what does your DH say or do?

Someone I know had similar problems with her mother. In the end her DH, who had been trying to keep out of it, just cracked and stormed round to the mother's house. He refused to leave until she explained why she was so awful to this particular daughter.

She had to flounce out of her own house in the end. The DH was exceptionally mild-mannered usually, so it shocked the mother and things have been much better since. Everyone's respect for the DH multiplied and the relationship between husband and wife improved hugely.

Thanks everyone, I agree with the points you've all raised.

Kodachrome, I'll suggest that to DH, it's a really good idea.

Fuzzy, I am getting more and more that way now, where it's all water off a duck's back, which I'm pleased about. I think youre right in that my DH just doesn't "get" it. I don't think he truly gets the level of emotional abuse she inflicted on me.

schobe, he just kind of accepts it, and would only say something really if she said something awful to me. Once she kept swearing and ranting at me, this was years ago, and DH told her there was no need for it, so she started trying to get him onside and being all nice and saying "Yes but I'm sure you understand that SHE makes me like this"

regarding the power thing, it does seem as though she is trying to find something, anything, to pick at me about or to be unkind about. We went into town recently and I was looking at clothes. I'm a size 10 but everything I liked she would find out for me in a 14. I kept saying "I need a 10" then in the next shop she'd get a 14 out again. I don't really care about her doing it, but it shows she is always looking at something to get power over me with. DD2 went round there during the week and apparently my mum was huffing, puffing and moaning about her shoes not being clean enough. Probably once I would have justified myself and even apologised that they'd been so dirty but not now. She can think what she likes!

Probably once I would have justified myself and even apologised that they'd been so dirty but not now. She can think what she likes!

I hear ya!

My mother turned up unexpectedly at my house one day with her friend in tow. I was busy hoovering. She said to me "are you doing that to try and impress me?" (she thinks I'm a slattern because I don't iron sheets) I just stood there and looked at her, leaving the comment hanging in the air. Her friend just stood there with her mouth wide open in shock at the sheer rudeness of my mother. She was the one that looked like the idiot - I laughed at her. She definitely tries to put others down to make herself feel better.

Sounds like our mothers are very similar, Fuzzy!

The bit I've found hard is actually saying/doing what I like then walking away and leaving her to think/do what she likes. As a child arguments or rather her sulks would go on for days on end and she doesn't like things to just end abruptly when she can get some mileage of nastiness out of them

I think I resolved this by realising the only person I can control is myself and my own feelings. She can't "make" you feel anything if you don't let her. If she wishes to sulk then just ignore her until she can behave properly again. In a way think of her like a tantruming toddler - she's trying to get a reaction from you to get attention if you don't give it to her, there's no point her continuing.

I know others on here have recommended Toxic Parents, I haven't read it myself. A book that helped me greatly was "If you had controlling parents..." (link below) I found myself nodding all the way through and felt I wasn't the only one out there to feel like this about my parents

tinyurl.com/8x22pk3