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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Rachel Cusk - why is she having to support her dh following her divorce?

157 replies

mrsreplicant · 19/02/2012 00:04

Sorry to be naive - have never done divorce myself. She seems to be saying that because her dh gave up his job to look after the dc, she will always have to support him now that they are divorced/ing. [?] From what I read, it sounds like she will have to support him even after the dc are grown up.

Can anyone elaborate?

OP posts:
Blu · 19/02/2012 19:36

From the article, she seemed only to wnat hinm to be a sahd in order to prove a point, and now wants to remove herself from the flip side.

I am sure divorce is horrible - that makes it worthy of pages and pages of support on the Relationship Boards, it doesn't mean we want to pay to read about it.

ninah · 19/02/2012 19:36

I am mainly staggered that writers make that much dusts down draft novel

ninah · 19/02/2012 19:39

the way I read it she was doing half of everything and she thought he should be contributing financially too
i've read the article now and it doesn't get my goat at all (maybe just the coy references at the end to X Y and Z. And Rupert)

mathanxiety · 19/02/2012 19:41

Whatever the reasoning behind it, I hope the cheques she sends him will be royalties of books where she skewers him.

I think her objection to supporting him was that she pitched in and did a fair amount of the 'women's work' when she came home from work, and also paid to outsource some of it, leaving the exH to 'help' if he so wished, and he managed to palaver this 'help' into sahp saddo status for the purposes of screwing her financially.

mathanxiety · 19/02/2012 19:42

x-post there ninah

Blu · 19/02/2012 19:42

Well, numerous MN threads decry men who come in from work and do not start pitching in with the evening meal, bathing, domestics.

She WANTED to do what she describes as 'her fair share' because of the 'woman' in her.

mathanxiety · 19/02/2012 19:45

"How many women here would like it if their ex was a writer and wrote about their divorce, casting himself as hard done by victim?"

He is not likely to do that as it would jeopardise his non-earning status. Again, I don't think he will cry much when he sees the cheques rolling in, including one for that article. Irony eh?

mathanxiety · 19/02/2012 19:52

Well, I wanted to have five children and so did exH, but when push came to shove he didn't volunteer to pay one penny more than he was staturorily obliged to for them. And we agreed between ourselves that I would be a sahm; when it all went tits up I was expected to jump back in and get a job while he whined that I could easily find one, recession be damned, since I had a degree and therefore many years of sahm-ing out of the workforce would not be a hindrance. Have there been times I have kicked myself? Have I told all of my children to get a qualification that will allow them to combine work and childcare easily if they want children, something with an income to leave them ok financially if the rug gets pulled from under their feet?

There's a big difference between what people do in the course of their daily lives because they want to, without giving it much thought, and the very dry view the law is inclined to take.

Grumpla · 19/02/2012 19:52

Ah okay, fair enough. If he was not in fact doing the majority of the housework / childcare then obviously that puts a different slant on things.

Of course, I would have been able to read it more closely if her writing style didn't make me want to poke my own eyes out with a stick.

2rebecca · 19/02/2012 20:01

If my ex wrote about me and the kids in the way she does no amount of money would make me forgive him. She wonders why he hates her...

mrsreplicant · 19/02/2012 20:03

He should really start stalking her. Then she would have summat uber-topical to write books and columns about, and he would want for nothing. Could further scupper his law career however.

DilysPrice, your point about how archaic it seems that support ends once a woman has another man to "look after" her is something that was bothering me too.

OP posts:
mrsreplicant · 19/02/2012 20:04

2rebecca, I agree. So easy to put a very subtle slant on how beastly your very slightly lazy ex is.

OP posts:
ninah · 19/02/2012 20:06

she doesn't say all that much about him it's mainly about the effect of breakup on her and dc
she wouldn't be the name that came to mind if you said to me bitterly divorced journo (liz jones, rachel liddle et al)

mrsreplicant · 19/02/2012 22:16

I bow to this superior thread here, which contains the immortal sentence: "The whole thing reminds me so much of Julie Myerson, this whole pimping out your family in a middle-class way in public."

Nonetheless, I'm v grateful for all the clarification on the divorce settlement situation.

OP posts:
animula · 19/02/2012 23:57

HardCheese: I suspect that the reason for the antipathy on this thread is that women pick up - often fairly semi-consciously - on the profound level of collusion-with-the-phallic that is afoot in Rachel Cusk's work. It performs a profound level of anti-woman alienation, executed through a seeming "excoriating" (huh) self-examination and self-analysis - publicly presented - and yet always fights shy, pulls punches, when it comes to the final turn of reflecting on that very antiwoman-ness.

Take, for example, that extract selected by motherinferior:

'It has existed in a kind of banishment, my flesh history with my daughters. Have I been, as a mother, denied? The long pilgrimage of pregnancy with its wonders and abasements, the apotheosis of childbirth, the sacking and slow rebuilding of every last corner of my private world that motherhood has entailed ? all unmentioned, wilfully or casually forgotten as time has passed. And I was part of that pact of silence: it was a condition of the treaty that gave me my equality, that I would not invoke the primitivism of the mother, her innate superiority, that voodoo in the face of which the mechanism of equal rights breaks down.'

What she's saying is that having a baby always takes bites out of a woman - at the level of body, mind, self, and public status.

That's not news on mumsnet.

We know that you can end up with a ruptured rectum, with a cunt the size of the Dartford tunnel, saggy tits, belly, etc. And equally well, you might not.

We know that your brain can turn to shit and that you can find your sense of self annihilated by the demands of a child/ren. And you might not.

We know that we then have to go out into a world that, generally, lauds mothers whilst simultaneously seems to cease regarding mothers as people. And we'll often find that in our ability to earn money.

So why present this as knowledge that you, and you alone, are in possession of? That is a representative act that annihilates the many -primarily women - who have also voiced these knowledges. And the work of those who have struggled to achieve changes and better care.

And don't get me started on the way it is represented in language. It is all as vezzie says, the middle class equivalent of the bondage-sad-face.

And the point of that? I see it as an attempt at phallic identification. The body - the physical, damaged female body is obscured and translated in a loggoreah and lexical obfuscation that is intended to clothe the writer in the mantle of non-womanhood. The body is transfigured into language, thereby becoming noon-body, non-woman; the "mind" in this dyadic transfiguration is implicitly gendered into an attempt to don the masculine.

Whilst at the same time appearing to speak "the truth" of a truamatised and ruptured femininity. (gag)

somehow, a"Woman's voice", or more precisely, women's voices, are subtly edged out of this representative space.

I think a lot of women pick up on this subtle anti-woman aggression - which is a probably a kind of self-hating but, because it is published as "a woman's voice", becomes politicised, and elides the voices of other women from this representative space - and understand that it somehow edges out other women's voices, in a kind of grotesque and horrible representation.

I have to admit, that is why I'm not fond of RC's writing, so this might well be more about me than anyone else reading the books.

animula · 20/02/2012 00:04

Having said that ... there's a place for her - the library is large and no-one's being forced to read her books.

And there were bits of "A Life's Work" that are really funny.

I feel genuinely as though it's not business about her marriage. Generally, I just don't like, even resent, being told about stuff like the end of a marriage. It's a modern-awkwardness - this grabbing passer's-by and pushing the act of judgement about stuff that surely is not our business upon them. Odd to find that so few of these self-refelctive writers don't also reflect back on the oddness of that situation itself.

all the same - it's good to have female writers - like particular ones or not. I'd far rather be chatting about Rachel Cusk than Stieg Larsen (or whatever his name is) who I really, really, really can't bear.

mathanxiety · 20/02/2012 00:04

Animula - wow. I think it is the reinvention of the wheel aspect of all this that makes so many women impatient. Who knew women get the short end of the stick? well duh.....

I know a fair few people who would match your description and RCs of women who found that biology matters, self included, despite being told otherwise for years of formal education. It is a shock when you realise it. But it is common knowledge. And it is not merely personal. It is political.

HardCheese · 20/02/2012 09:12

Animula - interesting. (And agreed on Stieg Larsson.) I agree to an extent with your point that RC's fictional characters can display a high level of 'collusion-with-the-phallic', but I think her writing also shows that it's uneasily conscious of this. Isn't this one of the unattractive sides of her own psychological make-up that she writes about in this extract? Her disgusted realisation that she's 'evolved on a diet of male values', is not a feminist but a 'self-hating transvestite' etc?

I don't agree with your accusation of the damaged female body being transmuted into 'logorrhoea and lexical obfuscation' , though. She's a writer - what she does is transmute bodily experience into language, because that's what writing novels and memoirs involves. It has to be mediated by language - or is what you're suggesting that she would be donning the masculine less problematically if she used a simpler, less heavily metaphoric register? Not responding to your comments here, but it sometimes seems to me that her very florid articulateness is a large part of the reason why she attracts such dislike.

And iI think it's the level of (often largely female) dismissal and dislike of her work in the public domain (as expressed on here and on the thread on the Guardian website) that makes me sceptical of the idea that her voice edges out other women's voices from the public domain? So much of what she publishes seems to appear garlanded by other women's voices, attacking and dismantling, which suggests that her writing is more of an opportunity for other women to speak, than be edged, surely?

animula · 20/02/2012 10:25

Good points, HardCheese. and I'm glad you came back because having thought a bit more last night, I think I was being over harsh. Actually, quite mis-stating what I think, to be honest.

I rather liked "A Life's Work". I liked its exploration of whether the role of mother can be evaded and its display of possible routes of compromise and evasion. If a role can't be refused: why? And in what sense can it not be refused?

I'm not sure I liked her strategies of evasion - but so what? I'm partial to inhabiting the role and fighting to politically transform it - but that's me. But let's be honest: that should not be enforced as the only game in town.

Anyway - it's been interesting to have an invitation to think about this - so that is definitely an argument in the writer's favour, surely. Opening spaces for questions is a definite something, and surely as important as proposing answers.

Feel this has been an inappropriate thread hi-jack, though. I think the OP was wondering more about why divorce settlements for women generally are so much lower and more meagre than this case. A good and important question in light of a. the strange fact that divorce settlements apparently went down when the CSA was introduced and b. people are now going to be asked to pay the CSA for their work (!) and pay an ongoing tithe for that service.

mathanxiety · 20/02/2012 18:38

The answer to the OP's question may be found in the idea that women are heavily penalised for evading the role of mother, much moreso than men who evade the role of father, because evading the role of mother is still unthinkable in our society.

There is still a pretty rigid idea of what the role of mother entails, while the role of father is much more fluid and up to the individual man to define. Fathers who 'help' get a laurel wreath. Fathers who abandon or abuse have 'rights'.

BoneyBackJefferson · 20/02/2012 18:39

"the strange fact that divorce settlements apparently went down when the CSA was introduced"

fact and apparently in the same sentence.
it just doesn't quiet work.

Sanuk · 20/02/2012 19:29

Why are people taking what is in the article about the divorce settlement as hard fact?

For a start, RC's DH gave up being a lawyer in 2003 to be a photographer. He wasn't just a SAHP, he worked too at some point.

This is why I have a problem with RC, she puts a self-indulgent spin on things IMO.

Blu · 20/02/2012 20:18

I'm not sure many of the posters on this thread can be suspected of being harsh on women for 'evading the role of mother' whatever that means. I have worked f/t outside the home since DS was 4m old, his father and I have shared his care and our household work 50%, and I don't remotely consider myself to have 'evaded' any role. I would never be negative about RC or anyone else for being a working parent. I've never seen MotherInferior joining that queue either.

MollieO · 20/02/2012 21:01

I think the husband being a 'qualified lawyer' is an irrelevance re expecting him to represent himself. I'm a 'qualified lawyer' too but there is no way I'd do my own divorce. I haven't studied family law since I did finals, which was many years ago.

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