Joint life insurance with my ex wife

[Solanacea]

I am hoping that someone could help me in resolving a problem that has reached crisis level. I have been married three times. In 2004 my second wife and mother of our two children and I separated. After a messy first divorce neither of us wanted to involve lawyers and we agreed to an amicable divorce. We agreed to carry on paying into two endowments and a joint life policy with profits until mature. In 2005 I met my third wife and we married in July 2009. In 2008 my ex moved to the US with the two boys, now aged 17 and 20. I was very upset about this, but was able to deal with it, and speak to them weekly, and they come over once or twice a year. My new wife has developed a hatred of my ex, and whereas I feel I have moved on, she finds any mention of her intolerable and usually triggers a row. The reasons are too complex to go into here. Such a row happened yesterday when a letter from the insurance company arrived addressed to me and my ex. I explained to my wife that the company had carried out a review and wanted to increase the premium. She became angry on discovering that if I died then my ex would receive the insurance payout. I pointed out that if my ex died I would receive the payout but this she said was immaterial because she would not trust my ex to do the decent thing and pass this to the boys ( which is what I would do). Things got very heated and she has left for work saying that unless I cancel the policy ( which I was going to do because the terms dont stack up anymore) and say that it is wrong for a married man to have joint life policy with his ex, she will leave me. This feels like bullying and a forced confession. The financial arrangement I have with my ex is based on trust. I hold savings accounts and an ISA which are used for the boys education. We have as joint account which we both pay into monthly and this pays the premiums for the endowments. I have no reason to doubt the fairness and honesty of my ex in this regard. However, it is important to stress that I only communicate with her on a need to basis, usually about the boys, their education and travel arrangements etc. I last saw her three years ago, we dont speak on the phone, and e-mails are neutral in tone.
So am I naive, lack empathy and understanding? How can I reassure my wife, who I love very much, that I have no emotional attachment to my ex, that having financial arrangements with my ex does not mean anything other than it was mutually financially beneficial to continue these, and that my children will benefit indirectly.
Any advice?

You have post coming to your home addressed to your ex-wife? This is weird and would definitely make me angry.
It turns out that the information you had given her about the 2013 date was incorrect. This would also make me cross.

'Just saying.

Personally, I cant see what all the fuss is about. Its a policy for gods sake, not cotinued personal contact.

She knew you had kids when she married you,and its no difference in essence to any other financial arrangement, eg maintenance. And I am as capable of jealousy as the next woman.

It might be really about something else, which she cannot articulate.

allnewtaketwo its really not as simple as that. You are not free to cancel a policy at any time and take out a new one on the same terms as the last one. You are subject to further underwriting for the new policy. If years have passed then your medical situation may be different. You may not be offered a new policy or your premiums may be drastically increased.
And yes the OP could cancel the policy and take out a new one but he would still lose all of the with profits part of the insurance policy

Sol sounds like you need a whole different thread here!! You and your ex have children together so unfortunately for your current wife your ex will always be a part of your life even if in a small way. This hatred she feels for her, is there a good reason for it? Even if there is, she is only harming herself and your realtionship by harbouring it. Not sure what to suggest really. I think you need to talk and reassure her when you are both calmer. At least this policy is now cancelled which should placate her somewhat.

esperance. Its because its a joint policy and addressed to me and my ex. Nothing that is solely for her comes here. On reflection I should have read the policy more closely and made it clear that it would be terminated in 2013. It was only the 20 year review by the company that made me read all the details again.

I think the finances are a red herring. I think you could do with some couples counselling to allow yourself and your current wife to deal with her insecurity issues, and what you are doing to cause them.

He may not be causing them. People can be insecure regardless. Or he may be contributing to them. Or not.

Simone. As a total newbie I am not sure of the protocol of changing threads, but thanks for the chance to unload and thanks everyone for your messages. I am really appreciative.

The topic of my ex wife is a running sore in my marriage. You get to the age I am, and you are bound to have baggage. My wife has it, I have it, but it seems mine can never be forgotten. I feel that my wife resents me for not resenting/hating my ex as much as she does. It would take someone far more skilled than me in understanding human behaviour to explain why she feels like this. It has something to do with her insecurity - worried about losing her looks, something to do with a couple of throw away remarks I made soon after we first met which have been misconstrued, and no amount of explaination will convince her otherwise. I actually said that other men found my ex attractive, and "wouldnt it be nice to be young and in love again" - both throway lines with little forethought but taken to mean that I still had feelings for my ex. Over the next 6 years I tried to put the record straight, without much csuccess, despite the passage of time.Then there were times that they met and accused each other of blanking each other. All tiny seeds which have grown into hatred.

The problem is that if this spat is resolved, the running sore remains.

Well, that does need addressing- it wont go away on its own.

Good luck.

Sol, sounds like mummytimes advice of getting some couples counselling may be the way to go. It sounds to me like youre getting to the end of your tether and if this situation is left to fester much longer it will destroy the relationship.

I think the problems lie with the your wife's insecurities. The financial relationship you have with your exW is just that and it is there because you have children together. This I feel should be respected by your wife, not just because it can be afforded and does not detract from her life with you, but because it is purely a financial arrangement that is not wrapped in any emotional attachment, other than the best interests of your DSs.

You ask if such an arrangement can work. My experience is yes. ExP and I have DC and for that reason we continue with a joint bank account into which ExP, as the much higher earner, pays considerably more than me (this is not just maintenance, but includes school fees and a mortgage), but it is all in proportion. I am the sole beneficiary of his life insurance and that will remain unless he has further DC. During our long time together we argued about just about everything, but never about money, seeing it really as a commodity that should be put to best use. Top of that list came the DCs and so it continues. This I am sure is too trusting for many but there remains a solid trust between exP and me regarding finances and over the 3 years since our separation neither has had reason to doubt this. We both have new P who are aware of the continuing financial, not emotional, tie between us and neither has voiced any concern. Maybe this will rear up and bite us some time in the future, but I would stake a lot on this not being the case.

I hope you manage to address this with your wife without feeling bullied into your actions.

Thanks for all your advice, but as ever opinion is polarised! It has been helpful to be able to articulate my feelings and gauge your response.

We have had one go at couple counselling as we went through a bad patch before we married. Unfortunately it didnt help then, and we worked it out without the counsellor's help. I do think it is worth trying again though.

Perhaps it would be helpful to your wife if she tried to see in the other way round. It is exactly because you are no longer emotionally attached to your ExW that you can have level headed comminication with her about financial matters.

You know, if a man was throwing tantrums and being controlling like this towards his new wife because she still shared financial interests with her ex and co-parent, we'd all be saying 'emotional abuse'. So I'm going to say that. Current wife sounds controlling and immature if she can't understand that you still have responsibilities to your children and their mother. I take it you don't also have children with her. I think for the financial reasons you outline you should cancel the policy anyway, but I would also tell new wife that she has no right to emotionally manipulate you into not making arrangements for your children and their mother and she should not have got into a relationship with someone who had children if she was not capable of dealing with that. If she doesn't stop the controlling behaviour I would break up. Sorry.

"I actually said that other men found my ex attractive, and "wouldnt it be nice to be young and in love again"

Sorry but I can totally see why your wife would have a problem with this!

I think your current wife has the issues sol not you or the ex. You had an existing policy in place when you divorced, which it seemed sensible at that time to continue to pay. You both appear to be financially secure, both now remarried, and you trust each other to use any payment from the policy for the benefit of the children (though it might have been sensible to change the beneficiaries to be the children themselves).

My exH's new wife has similar issues over any contact with me even though the only contact we ever have is re. legacy financial ties and the children. Looking at it from this side of the fence it just looks bonkers tbh and is not really about the policy but is about a fundamental insecurity the new wife feels. It's that which needs dealing with because it will keep rearing its head.

allnewtaketoo. I know they were thoughtless remarks, its a male problem, but it is still being brought up as if it was current six years later. Surely the passage of time should have confined these remarks to a new girlfriend, as she was then, to history?

From what you have said I think your current wife appears to be overreacting. I would be wondering what's at the root of her irrational response to the policy. Does she feel insecure in your relationship? Why? The policy is neither here nor there, that was just the trigger for something much more important.

oldenough. In an ealier post I tried to suggest reasons for my wife's insecurity. She flatly denies that she is insecure, so that converstaion goes nowhere. I agree that the policy was the trigger. What may be relevant is that she says that when a letter comes addressed to me and my ex she feels it has somehow invaded her space. I have reduced these letters to a minimum - paperless statements etc - but they do occur occasionally. Her line is that is "wrong" to have such an arrangement, and that any sensible person would agree. Seeing evidence of arrangements reminds her that it is "wrong" and I am too insensitive to see that. From the responses so far, it would seem opinion is pretty much divided over whether its a sensible financial arrangement or "wrong".

I think perhaps your wife resents the fact you have a past that seeps into the present, in the sense that the slate should have been wiped clean now that you are married to her. Just not possible where there are children from a former relationship as the paternity of a child cannot be changed. If I were her, I would be thankful that I had ended up with a decent person who demonstrated this decency in his actions.

I feel really sad for your children. Is there a possibility that they may come back now that they are almost grown, do you think? University in the UK?

Underfoot. The elder is on his gap year in NZ, the younger is finishing high school. Both are intending to go to college in the states, as the fees are now lower there. Thank goodness for Skype! I would really like to visit them out there. I think that willl have to wait until they are both living away from my ex.

My partner had insurance with his ex until the younger one finished education (19) - didn't go to uni or would have been longer. It's a very sensible thing to do. Your current wife sounds very immature and silly. She needs to grow up.

I can understand why your wife is upset. It must have been upsetting to receive post addressed to you and your ex. I'm sure it wasn't your intention to upset your wife but how about an apology with a bunch of flowers to try to make it up to her?

The fact is, it doesn't actually matter that you can't see a problem with this policy. Your wife is upset, she had a nasty shock and you need to deal with her emotional response first.

My view is that your DW doesn't like your ex so it would make your life much easier if you cut any remaining links with the ex as your DC are old enough to be in direct contact. Your wife and her feelings should be the priority here not the ex.

My DH also once said to me that 'men find my ex-w attractive'. My reply was 'only if they're blind and stupid'

I'm finding it really had to judge this, because you seem so very reasonable, perhaps a bit too reasonable? There doesn't seem to be any anger, just resignation and acceptance of everyone and everything.

You say you have 'moved on', but you DW might just think you are being too accepting of bad treatment by your ex-W and is angry for you and also with you because you're not getting angry on your own behalf.

TBH, it would drive me a bit batty to be with someone who was always being 'reasonable' and 'calm' and 'forgiving'- to me it sounds a bit too much like being a doormat.