Marriage advice please, ways to turn it back around?? we used to be best friends :(

[greyriver]

Husband of 15 yrs (2 dc 8&4) told me last night he thinks the spark has gone and that he loves me but doesn't think he is in love with me?. we always go to bed separately, never really talk in the evenings, don't like the same tv so I sit in study him in the lounge, if we ever go out its always with friends or family, and he thinks this is masking the fact we don't really get on anymore. He also wants more freedom (wants to go to the pub once a wk), he thinks I have been controlling our whole married life (i thought it was just how priorities changed with family and kids) but he says I always give him grief when he wants to go out with his friends (i do and have?.cant help it :( When I have been home alone day I take it personally when he wants to go out and not spend the eve with me )

I think we have totally neglected each other for a while now and we have just been swept along with busy day to day family life, leaving no time for ourselves as a couple, we have stopped trying without even realising maybe?? I also get quite aggressive when I drink alcohol and for some reason always end up having a go at him or saying nasty things I don't think I mean. I feel I have given everything up to do with me, and feel my entire life is the family, I feel totally unappreciated and think when I drink it probably comes out as verbal diarrhea.... He said if he had treated me this way I would have walked out months ago, he's probably right. He has stopped trying too though and I cant remember the last time he held my hand, said something nice to me, surprised me etc? All of a sudden something is terribly wrong. He has said he wants to work things out, and doesn't want to give up, he also said the thought of leaving the kids is too unbearable. We have hugged a few times (granted I was sobbing tho) and he's said he's sorry for making me feel this way, and he's phoned already today to see if I am ok, and said he will call this afternoon as well. I do think we have something to work on. I just wondered where on earth we start, obviously goes without say I must not drink to the state where I am mean to him, but that alone wont be enough. We were best friends at school, and I wonder how we get our friendship back, as opposed to being the nagging wife and in my eyes an uncaring, unloving husband...

Does anyone thats been through similar and worked things out with a positive result in the end have any advice at all please??
If your still with it tia, didnt realise i had ranted so much!

Oh dear I am sorry to hear this. I actually came on to post something vaguely similar. In fact there are several similarities. I often feel I am seething about all the stuff I do which seems to be unappreciated and I do nag him about it (not sure if IABU about some of it or if I should expect more from him but that's another story). We only have one DC (nearly 1) but things haven't been exactly brilliant since before we got pregnant.

Not sure what to suggest except using this opportunity of it rising to the surface to grab it and not let things slide back down. It's so easy to get stuck in a rut of going to bed separately and all the other stuff you said makes you feel separate from him. Can you remember what it was that made you fall in love with each other and try to recreate it somehow? Going to the pub once per week with his friends doesn't sound unreasonable to me. You should find something you want to do once per week too otherwise you risk the resentment building up.

In a previous relationship, I ended up deciding we needed counselling, as I wasn't ready to leave him but knew things couldn't go on as they were. I wished we had done it earlier as we might have been able to save it but it was too late by the time we finally agreed to counselling. It might eb worth it for the sake of your DCs.

Good luck

I think it sounds as if there is still a lot of love there....but counselling really has to be your next step. You already have a good idea of some of the problems. You have communicated...so simply continue...

My advice-
get a job, or a hobby, or something for you. Get out one night a week with friends or to do a hobby or exercise or something. Then he can have his night a week at the pub.

Stop spending evenings in separate rooms! Awful. DH and I often do different things in the evening, he might have the laptop with headphones in while I have the TV, but we are sitting together, make each other cups of tea, chat about this and that.

Stop drinking. DH and I have pretty much stopped together and it makes life much more harmonious. Alcohol is a crutch and a false one, and if you are unhappy underneath than a couple of drinks will bring it right out, in a destructive and negative way.

You don't mention sex. Are you having it? If not, work on that. During lean times when DH and I aren't communicating much sex can be the thing that connects us. As long as we are connected on some level I feel we are ok, and when the emotional level drops (due to tiredness, business or whatever) the physical level can anchor us back to each other.

Stop expecting him to be all about you. Everyone needs time out of the couple/family and that includes you. It isn't a personal slight that he doesn't want to stay in every night of the week, as long as he isn't out clubbing til 4am on a weekly basis, a night out per week is fine and healthy.

Can you book a holiday? Or just get the kids looked after for a night one weekend and spend some time just the two of you?

thank you so much for your responses, they make total sense and yes you are probably right, I do maybe need a hobby or something, just hard as some evenings he's not home until gone nine so it makes it hard to arrange anything. Not making excuses I guess I should go at the drop of a hat when he does get back, but then if thats the only night he is home early i don't get to see him IYSWIM. Have thought about counselling and he said he doesn't want to do that, although if in a month or so things are no better then maybe we will have to consider it? Sex is non existent at the moment and I am now worried if I make the first move he will refuse me...just seeing dh cuddle the kids and not me, is like a dagger through my chest, and I don't even feel able to go and cuddle him through the fear of rejection, but if i don't it could make things worse so I am in catch 22 not knowing what to do for the best. I thought about the whole holiday thing, and arranged my parents to have the kids for a long weekend so we could go abroad and 'escape' for a few nights, but he said he doesn't want to, mostly because of work (no cover) but a little bit is not wanting to go because of me and the fear if I drink i will have a go at him etc (despite me saying I am going to cool it with the whole alcohol thing) sounds like a bit of an excuse to me though because potentially that could happen anywhere?

I dont know, felt quite positive yesterday, now I just feel I am treading on bl**dy egg shells, he did say we can go away for one night instead of the abroad thing, but I feel that sad and sick inside how do i change into the upbeat happy wife when I feel so terrible. What a nightmare :( Plus he has said he doesn't want to keep talking about it, going over the same things, I just cant get my head round it all and the fact its at the point he thinks he isn't in love with me anymore, I guess I keep mentioning it hoping he will say 'actually I didn't mean I don't love you, I do love you and everything will be ok'

This happened to me many years ago when my DC were little, we were both tired and bored with our lives and each other. If he is unwilling to give counselling a go I would suggest to try to start a hobby together, something that is fun, maybe a little competitive to spark off conversation and togetherness. How about jogging, cycling, dancing, gym etc Exercise has the double effect of lifting your mood. Some sports centres have creches so you can have the children looked after while you do something for yourselves.

Otherwise have a regular date night, if you can't afford to go out (but look for 2for1 vouchers), have a special meal at home instead. Can you team up with a friend and swap babysitting favours? You could use the babysitting either for date night or to go out and do something for yourself when he is at work late.

If you want to think about the effect that drinking is having on your relationship, you could have a look at the Brave Babes thread here
It sounds to me like you are both worried about how much/how often you are drinking. you will get a warm non-judgemental welcome there. You might even see me there
If you cut down on buying alcohol you could use the money saved for a babysitter or a meal out.
Good Luck, it worked for us - still together after 30 years.

Okay I'm not going to gloss over the problems in your relationship that you've taken responsibility for and it's obvious that you should stop drinking and making nasty comments.

But you do realise I hope that the most common reason for a man saying he 'loves you but is not in love with you' and that he won't go to counselling, is an affair?

And that the sort of conversation you had that concentrates on your faults and his wish for freedom is part of the 'setting you up to fail' affair script?

My advice to you is to start by finding out whether there is an affair, or at least someone else who's waiting in the wings. Don't ask him because I doubt you'd get the truth. Check his phone would be my best advice.

The very worst thing you could do would be to make superhuman efforts to become superwife, because if he is having an affair it will make absolutely no difference and you will be extremely angry later on if it turns out that all these efforts were in vain.

Often, when a man drops this sort of bombshell and says he doesn't want to leave, what he means is that it doesn't yet suit him to live with the OW, either because he's not yet sure of her or because she hasn't yet left her own partner. He isn't ready to give up his home comforts yet and wants all the benefits of the home and kids, but has no intention of giving back anything as a husband. He doesn't want to see a counsellor because he suspects a trained third party would see all the holes in his story and suspect an affair, especially as counsellors have heard this story/script a million times before.

It's a form of 'putting you on notice' that he has withdrawn from the marriage so that you no longer have any expectations of him, including sex. The biggest clue is always that he doesn't offer to change himself or do anything to improve the marriage, as evidenced by him saying he wants to go to the pub more, doesn't want to go away with you, wants to continue 'working' until 9pm at night......

If you can't find any evidence of an affair, then you might want to think about asking him to leave and telling him that you cannot be married to someone who has no romantic feelings for you. Sometimes the shock of that brings things to a head.

Please though - rule in or rule out the most likely cause of this, before doing anything else.

Oh no, not the "I'm not in love with you" script it sounds like he is having an affair (or is thinking of having one).

I would definitely dig around - check emails, phone, internet history, deleted folders/trash bin on computer etc.

Blimey, you last two posters really shocked me. How can op expect her relationship to improve if she is going to sneak around checking DH's phone? How does a breach of trust help matters? If you think he's having an affair, ask him. If he is (not saying he is), he might surprise you by admitting it, relieved you have brought it up. But really I think it's very mean to say to op that it's probably an affair and to go sneaking around. I would not advise it. Make him go to counselling. Be honest with each other or how can you have a future together?

I've got no experience of infidelity but I have to say that what I've seen of other relationships torn apart by it, Chandon's post is spot on. I have no idea if the greyriver's H is having an affair or not, but it can't be dismissed out of hand IMO.

The drinking is definitely an issue and needs tackling in its own right regardless of what happens to the marriage. As people with a drink problem rarely accept how bad it is initially, this may be the major problem of the marital breakdown and the OP needs to explore that.

However, based purely on what I'm reading here I have a feeling that the OP's drinking is symptomatic of the problem, rather than the cause of it. Reading between the lines, it seems that the OP gave up her own life when DC came along, whereas her DH has retained a sense of his own identity and has the freedom to come and go. If the OP has been stuck in the house with DC all day, I'm not surprised she feels hurt and let down when her DH wants to go straight back out. That doesn't make her needy. Indeed, if her DH isn't making the effort to ensure that the OP has time to herself and the freedom to do stuff without the DC around, I'd say he's being selfish rather than her being needy.

It's possible the OP is insecure and therefore controlling - indeed she says she is in her OP. Counselling may help with this. However, if her DH doesn't say or do nice things for her, doesn't look after the DC in order to give his wife her own 'me time', and basically expects all his domestic needs taken care of without having to make any effort in return, I think it's inevitable she'd be feeling insecure. That doesn't make her in need of counselling, it makes her DH in need of a wake-up call.

Lots of food for thought here. I wish you well greyriver.

I too would recommend a spot of counselling for yourself and finding yourself a bit more. It's hard to give love to other people if you don't like yourself or know who you are. I think we all get a little lost com time to time, so be kind to yourself, think about why you drink to be able to speak your mind, think about the things you can change to stop feeling resentful and think about what you want from him. Sometimes writing it down helps . Good luck.

33 - the vast majority of unfaithful men will deny deny deny when confronted and then will be much more careful in covering their tracks.

thank you all so much for your posts, all the advice you have given is so brilliant and yes the thought of him having an affair has gone through my mine. but the hours he works has been a part of our lives since we were 18 (and he was just starting his own business) so it truly is part of his job and not an excuse. I have checked his phone and emails and work emails and there is nothing... I have asked him straight out if he has had an affair/having or have i pushed him to have a female friend he is simply relying on and chatting to as opposed to me, he looked me in the eye and said no, not ever has he done that. For now I have to believe him and accept this. I did say I know my faults but he has to recognise his as well, and that its not fair for me to make changes and for him not to try, and place all the blame on me. the superwife post about making all the efforts when he might just leave me anyway really hit home and I talked to him about this last night saying I'm not going to really try if he truly believes its over, I said if thats the case I want you to leave me now. I said I wont walk about treading eggshells, I said we have a lot to work on and he has neglected me, I have in retaliation probably spoken to him terribly as a way of dealing with the neglect... he said we work well together as husband and wife and always have but he worries now if we go away (ie the abroad thing) he said what on earth would we talk about we have nothing in common!!!! I said two beautiful children who we both adore are currently our main subject because apart from being at home with them i do NOTHING else to provide a topic of interest or major discussion, I also said that what on earth could be a better shared interest, the one thing he wouldn't get from anyone else or new partners. I also said we need to do more things together and we do have lots of things to talk about, we then went out for a meal whilst son was at football (only took daughter she sat and played ) I actually made the effort (in god knows how long) to talk about everything I had done that day, even the mundane crap, he did the same we had a laugh and a joke, and for the first time in probably a long time we actually listened to each other. I enjoyed the evening, we came home he watched something on tv as there was nothing on i was interested in so instead of me sitting in the other room on the computer i joined him and sat on the laptop listening to music every now and then stopping to chat so idle remark, thought etc then we went to bed together and he held my hand in bed....small tiny step but actually made the world of difference.

so many parts of all your posts make such sense, as i really did give up my identity after dc, I think in turn that has made me needy and as a result controlling...and maybe take my anger out on him too, esp after a drink. I have been thinking of some of the things I have said to him and done in front of friends and that really isn't the way someone should speak to their husband who they supposedly love... somehow I got stuck in a rut of just being mean to him i think, this has been a big wake up call for us both and I hope we can get through it. I do think we need to get out more just together and also maybe start doing a sport or something similar as a shared interest, we used to love squash maybe something like that would be good

I'm so sorry you're going through this too. Stay strong and give yourself some time to think things through x

If the vast majority of men having an affair deny it- what do men who are NOT having an affair say???? It's like you can't win.

OP, I think you are being very sensible and brave in your attitude to this.

It does sound as though you have been a bit controlling. Not 'letting' your husband go out, ever, is pretty clearly unreasonable.

It also seems as though you have put your whole life on hold to look after your family, then resented this, then blamed your husband for it. If you are not happy with your whole life revolving around your family, then with respect, you need to take action to change this. Get a babysitter/put the kids into nursery a couple of times a week so you can get out. Or get a nanny and a job. Do something! Your husband is not responsible for your happiness, you are.

I am sure you will sort this out. You sound like a lovely, loving couple who have gone a bit astray once the children turned up, which is so common as to be the norm. Good luck and well done to you for taking the first steps.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1410333-so-he-is-having-an-
affair-you-were-right-now-what-do-I-do