Constantly arguing with DH about work...what to do

[TwigletMonster]

DH works in a family company, and its a constant source of tension for us. He's been working a fair way from home for about 18 months, so driving for about 1hr 30, doing a full day then driving home. He's up early, never sees the DCs in the morning, and is home to see them for up to an hour at bedtime. So he's out of the house for 12 hours per day. He does work hard, but his commitment to his company is causing big problems for us.

Recently, I found out he's soon going to be working closer to home, for a short period. So, a 30 min round trip instead of 3 hours. Yippee, I thought, for a few months he'll be around for a bit more of the DCs day. But, silly me, what this actually means is that he'll work for an extra hour a day. He's never been to pre-school, missed all the pre-school christmas plays, and worked on both the DCs birthdays (despite promising not too).

I'm fuming. He already works 8 hours/day, plus breaks and travel time, and has meetings at weekends.

The issue is that I feel that DH puts work above us. It makes me really cross, and I don't know how to get past that. Last year, he had 1 week off. It is a family firm, but it's not tiny, there are people that can cover for him, if it's planned properly.

I think my main concern is that the situation always gets worse, not better. So, holiday has progressively got less, and hours have got longer. I view this as poor planning, and choosing to be at work rather than fighting to be at home more. There is also a macho culture at this firm, where taking time off is seen as 'letting the side down'. It's bollocks. I'm not prepared to go on like this, but he won't see my point of view at all.

I feel really sad, desperate and angry about it. I'm not prepared to sit by whilst his company get to call the shots and demand more of his time, especially whilst DCs are so small.

Does anyone have any advise? I think we might need to go to Relate about it, as it really has become a (very angry) stalemate

There's good evidence that once you hit a certain number of hours a week most people get less productive. Not less productive for the extra hours, less productive overall so you're actually getting less work done each day than if you were there for fewer hours. Unfortunately too many companies have the stupid, macho attitude that you have to work insane numbers of hours to prove yourself and until people stand up and say "enough" nothing will change. Does your DH have the balls to be that person?

I think you are being unfair really.

He is at home with you every night, he is good with family stuff at weekends.. that is pretty much the norm for most families that I know, and was certainly the norm for me growing up, and for everyone else I knew.

My dad was self employed and we had a weeks holiday a year, that was it. My mum took me away for other breaks, to my cousins, to my grandparents..

What would be reasonable is the statutory minimum holiday entitlement. It is laid down in legislation for a reason - it is a health and safety issue. If you want to be devious about it then I would present it in terms of making business sense, as a rested employee, having taken a proper holiday, will be far more effective at work.

Of course, you could always promise internet access and an hour or so catching up with emails/phone calls etc from holiday, but I don't think that would necessarily be a good idea.

How would you feel about going back to work full-time if he did leave the firm? It does look to me as though the firm is the problem if everyone is working stupidly and making themselves ill.

I think I would threaten to the ring the office if he doesn't stick to the agreement this time.

You need to point out your children will be soon grown and gone.

I think you are being a bit unreasonable in terms of the hours. I think they aren't at all excessive and the same hours that I work, and the same commute time, with a small DC. I do take holiday though, so am off all bank holidays plus the usual holiday allowance.

It's a hard time for companies at the moment, perhaps he's concerned about the state of the business and maybe worried that taking time off may mean things slip. On the other hand, perhaps he needs to learn to be happy to delegate to allow himself to take time off.

fiorentina I think I've concluded the hours in themselves are fine, but the lack of holiday isn't, and lack of holiday + long hours means even less time with the DCs.

Hassled that's my worry, that I'm a bit bitter about it already (can you tell?!). No mother around unfortunately. In my view, there's a few issues from a while ago that get embroiled in the business too. It makes it hard for an outsider (ie. me) to have much influence. In fact I think the lack of female influence has a lot to do with this.

Tadlow if I had to go back to work full-time, I would be sad to miss DC but if DH was at home with them, that would be ok. I wouldn't agree if it meant them going to childcare full-time. I just think it would cause a huge rift that would affect DCs too relationships with potential cousins etc. I'm not prepared to risk that.

I hope you can reach a compromise and spend more time together as a family going forward. As you say you never get these years back. Best of luck.

4 weeks a year holiday absolute minimum and days off in liew of weekend meetings.
Foot very firmly down. Book as much time away as you can possibly afford and expect HUGE moans the week before you go. Ear plugs may be needed
You can't necessarily do a lot about long days, certainly not if vomiting is involved, but not taking holiday and working weekends are bad habits.
Consciously or subconsciously, I think some men avoid taking holidays because the find small DCs stressful. They feel far more in control at work.
Be firm your DCs need their Dad about in their school holidays and you need him to stay sane.
He may even get to like being on holiday although that may need the DC to be older.

How can autocorrect turn commuting into vomiting

squeaky.

I think you are right that this was usual when some of us were growing up (I'm 40-something), but I don't know many people for whom this is the norm now (the long days, plus weekends, plus holidays). Those women I know whose husbands work like this know are very unhappy about it, and I think the reason they are unhappy is that women and men very often have higher expectations of men sharing in child-care and family life.

I know in some cases beggars can't be choosers. but in others, maybe the OPs, there is a chance to change things, if the man can clearly see that he's prioritising work over family.

startail, I agree that in lots of the cases I know, the father isn't actually that engaged with the DCs, doesn't cope very well with them and finds work altogether easier and more controllable. And it's a vicious circle as well.

My DH is a workaholic. Regularly pulls 14/15 hour days and works 7 days a week. if I let him because that is the family business (farming which can be 24/7).

The way I have overcome it, is to insist that he has a minimum of 1/2 day off a week - I don't care when. I also book the holidays at least 8 weeks in advance so I have time to nag brain wash him and give him a fait acompli. I also insist on at least one night out a fortnight for us, where he finishes "early" (i.e. before 7.30pm). Doesn't matter what we do - last time we collapsed on the sofa and watched shit on the telly, but it focuses his mind away from work.

I think you need to be a bit more assertive. :)

You say the business is doing well, but is it really? As well as being more assertive, I think you need to look at why people (I assume it's not just your husband) feel they can't take any time away. Is the company teetering on the brink or is this just some sort of competitive 'look how dedicated I am' presenteeism going on between colleagues and family members?

The other tricky question here is how well is the company being managed; are family dynamics making the business harder, not easier, to manage?
I read an article recently which suggested that most family businesses only last two generations, because they are founded by someone with business skills and aptitude but the second generation, who inherit the business, don't have the same drive or skills and so the company fails. Could that be the situation here?

You make it sound as if your husband's only choices are the family company or unemployment. Is there no chance - as a last resort - he could get a job elsewhere?

The worst thing is that he made a promise that he then broke. His family sound awful - its a bit sad that they can't even grant him his legal right to holiday (or that they would pressure him to not take it).

I agree, it's really sad that they can't each have the legal amount of time off. I have tried pointing out the health and safety reasons behind it etc.

I think the company is doing ok - it's not about to set the world alight, but they're busy and haven't needed to let anyone go.

I don't think it's being managed that well - I think they are trying really hard, but the person in charge operationally doesn't have much experience, and is too busy to look at it properly. So I think they are not as efficient as they could be. That's another frustration for me, because my work background is planning and processes, and I'm sure with a bit of mentoring they could do better. But, any 'outsiders' who've come to work there don't last long, and if they were to employ any kind of professional manager, they would need to moderate the culture and values somewhat.

So, I don't think I'm being unrealistic in my holiday expectations, which most of you seem to agree with. How on earth can I be more assertive about this though? I do feel that it's viewed that I'm being demanding to expect 'more' holiday. There is definitely a culture of presenteeism, which seems to be winning out over DH's own family.