Do you think you're a better mum than your own mum? How do you feel about that?

[dreamingbohemian]

My mum is currently staying with us for 2 weeks (not by choice really, got guilted into it). She's taking care of DS (21 months) while I work from home and DH is away.

We've always had a fraught relationship (long story of course!) but it wasn't until my 30s really that I started to think it's not really all my fault, and that in the end she just has not been a very good mother.

She was not abusive, I know she loves me and in some ways over the years has been helpful. But she is emotionally manipulative, melodramatic, chaotic, bitter, angry, handled her divorce very badly and just generally makes no sense to me. I left home at 17 and never went back for more than a few days at a time.

When I was pregnant and thinking about what kind of mum I wanted to be, I realised everything I thought about was how I don't want to do this like my mum. I could only think of one thing I would copy from her (she always made sure I had lots of books). That is literally it. This realisation was heartbreaking to me

Having her here and seeing how she takes care of DS is giving me a lot of flashbacks and I'm struggling.

I don't think I'm super mum or anything but I do think in many ways I'm doing better than my mum.

I guess maybe this should make me happy but instead I just feel overwhelmingly sad. I wish with all my heart I had a great mum

Just wondering if anyone else feels this way and has any coping strategies. I feel like I could never say any of this in RL because it's such a taboo to think badly of your mum.

Op I could have written your first post. My mum is here for 2 weeks, and as always, it is a struggle. She is very difficult. Every time I look forward to her visit thinking this time it'll be better, and only once it was. I think that was because I had just had a baby and she was in charge of the house and in control. She's also a bit better at her house than here.

But generally, angry, envious, antagonistic, rude, has to be at the centre of everything, makes a drama out of everything. I've long been terrified of turning out like her but I hope not. Im starting to realise that the example she set is not how most normal people are and I can choose to be better. The rages she had when I was little were so awful. The favouritism. The criticism. Awful.

weasle sorry to hear you're mid-visit too! How much longer do you have? My mum is leaving tomorrow night, but given she is being really horrible this morning these two days are going to completely suck.

I feel let down by positive thinking. I was really determined that things would be nice this time (sigh).

After the fight yesterday, I feel like this is all my fault, that maybe my childhood wasn't as bad as I think and I overreacted and so it's my fault that our relationship is like this.

But, I really don't think it was normal. And I don't think I would feel this bad for no reason.

I know there have been a couple books mentioned here but I'm afraid to read them because it will drag up even more stuff and I'll feel worse.

Nooo dreaming thinking you're overreacting is classic behaviour in this situation! I know it well. But why would you invent such a horrible problem?! Trust your instincts.

Thank you so much for starting this thread, its really helping me. I've studied psychology and read loads of self-help books, but it's only when telling other people or even composing it in my head that the penny drops. My dm was bloody awful and I've been minimising it for years. Seeing it clearly is now helping me understand why I feel sad/angry/confused/lonely, etc so often. Don't be scared of the books, they'll only make you focus better on the stuff that's probably already swirling around your head, and will be like holding someone's hand through it (but whenever you feel ready of course)

Very best of luck with the rest of the visit.

Hi dreamingbohemian,

re an earlier comment of yours:-

"But according to my mum, all our problems are because I rejected her and the entire family, everyone knows that I hate them. She says she 'gets it now', I hate my family. Of course that's 'fine', that's just the way I am. She doesn't accept that my childhood was sad or stressful, she thinks I'm just selfish and don't care about the family. And do I have any idea how embarrassing it's been for her all these years, when people ask her I am and she pretends she just talked to me when actually we haven't talked for 2 weeks?"

The above is actually a par for the course response said by toxic parents who btw never apologise for their actions nor take any responsibility for them. It is HER who rejected you, how dare she try and put all the blame for her inherent ills on you. You were a child, it was in no way your fault and you did not make her this way; it is her own birth family who did that and if you were to find out more about her childhood I would put money on it that it was emotionally abusive. She has and continues to abjectly let you down.

Do look at the Stately Homes thread and read Toxic Parents. It is not an easy process to undertake but it could well help escape the FOG which is a state most adults who were children of toxic parents have (FOG is an acronym for fear, obligation, guilt).

As regards the relationship with my mother; well its now superficial at best. I was basically trusted, well actually left by her mentally, to get on with it from the age of about 14 or so. She and to a lesser extent my Dad have and continue to show favourtism towards my brother.

For what its worth I don't think that you will turn subsequently into your mother as you have qualities that they have and never will possess; insight and empathy being just two.

Oh thank you ladies

We just had another 'conversation' and I'm feeling quite shaky so it is soooo helpful to come here and read these words right now!!

Okay, I will steel myself and read these books. I need to do something.

She did have a rocky childhood herself but I think that's why she's mad at me. She says that even though she was upset with her mum she never disrespected her or rejected her, she always called her and they had a good relationship anyway. So I guess she is upset that I'm not doing the same.

She just keeps saying I didn't have it bad and pointing to all my cousins who have had to deal with worse.

She did apologise, for the first time ever, last year. It was sort of like, sorry if things were tough sometimes. I was really touched and said thanks, yes sometimes they were, but that's okay. Then she got really defensive and demanded an explanation for why I thought that way and, well, it didn't seem like much of an apology after that.

I feel like I'm at a crossroads now, I can either put a lot of effort into trying to improve things, or I can start to really seriously distance myself. I want to do the latter but it feels so wrong. I don't trust my perspective on things right now.

toptrump I don't think many mums enjoy mumhood 100%! there are always times where it's hard and you have a hard time dealing. Try not to be too hard on yourself. I don't really do crafts either

maninaglassbox I've actually read a lot of profiles of people like your mum and so many of them sacrificed their family life for what they did. I'm really impressed with how you've worked it out for yourself.

I really relate to what you said about starting from scratch.

All of you here talking about your wonderful mothers - Jeez, how self-indulgent can you get????

Your responses are NOT the responses Bohemian wants, so don't respond and go away. FFS some people can be so insensitive!

Bohemian: what you describe, however painful, is the beginning of the rest of your life. Do you know why? Because now that you are a mother yourself, you are now allowing yourself to see the reality of who your mother really is, and so to choose to not do what she did.

This is so important for those of us WHO HAVEN'T HAD WONDERFUL MOTHERS. It means that we are facing up to the truth of what we didn't have/had to put up with, we can mourn for the loss - and we can get in touch with the sad little child within us. When we do that, we get in touch with the vulnerability, helplessness and upset of our own children - instead of being irritated by it.

If I had been a mother at 17 I am telling you I would have been an abusive parent. I would have taken revenge on my mistreatment, on my child (which is what my mother did to me). When I admitted to myself that no, my parents weren't great in fact they really let me down it was incredibly painful but it changed my (as yet unborn) children's life.

I have now forgiven my parents, (after a huge time of rage and sorrow) and seen that they suffered too, but it doesn't excuse them. Hardly any abuse is deliberate (unless you are a psychopath). Nearly all abuse is about being blind to the child's distress - because you are blind to your own past suffering.

An important (but very sad) book to read is: The Drama of Being a Child by Alice Miller. Also any book about listening to your inner child. ?john Bradshaw?

This is really important, Bohemian, to do this work, because it is all great whilst your child is still an ego extension of you and you can decide all sorts of things about him/her. But when they start asserting themselves exploring their own sense of self and defying you (from the age of 17 months/terrible 2)???? That will wake up all sorts of hidden sadness rage and frustration. Be warned! (It is also why the battered babies/ Baby P in the papers are invariably this sort of age, 17 mo - 2 years) But don't be afraid - just care enough about yourself and your baby, to go on that painful journey. It really hurts, but it will set you free.

dreaming your mum sounds very similar to mine. I made the decision a couple of years ago to distance myself (would have cut myself off, but my sisters asked me not to for their sakes and for the grandchildren), but my mum just thinks I'm a selfish bitch for not phoning her every day and putting her needs first. I'm going through a horrible breakup at the moment, am 5 months pregnant and have 5 children, and she has visited me once in the whole time. She never phones me, but berates me for not phoning her.

While I was growing up my mum sounds similar to yours. She had a difficult childhood, and her H (my father) left when we were young. My mum was extremely bitter about all of this. She spent the whole time in martyship mode, setting me and my sister off against each other, and not speaking to us if we upset her. Nothing was good enough for her. It continued into my 20s and 30s - weddings and christenings are marked by her having meltdowns and having to be comforted by one of us, we continually offend her. My sister distanced herself many years ago (v sensibly) and is less affected by it now, I only did it a couple of years ago.

So in answer to your question, I am a different mother to mine. I vowed never to do the whole martyship thing - punishing me by not talking to me for days as I so disliked it. I praise my children the whole time for whatever their achievements, don't compare them to each other, don't tell them they're fat or they've got no friends. Don't throw their ironing at them, don't complain about not being able to watch what I want on tv because "I'll be dead soon".

I'm sure I'm making my own mistakes though.

Glassbox:

I just want you to ponder, that political activism/struggling for a cause, can be a form of narcissism. Children of NPD people are neglected and hurt children - no matter how noble the struggle they were neglected for.

I notice that every few years, Zindzi Mandela is in a scrape. She is usually being sued, for unpaid rent/leaving the house in a shocking state, her life is a mess.

And I think to myself, no wonder. She was brought up by a complete psychopath. Winnie Mandela is a horrible human being (which is what you are first), no matter who she was in the Struggle.

wobbly thank you, that's all really interesting!

I don't really mind the positive posts it does actually restore my faith in humanity a bit to see that there are good parents out there it makes me feel determined to be one of them, not just give up and say it's hopeless.

The whole range of responses on here has been so illuminating, thank you again everyone!

wobbly, I'm really interested in what you say about working on this before DC get older/more assertive. I had never thought about that at all and it does seem quite important, so I really want to thank you for bringing that up.

I do get really frustrated sometimes, but it's hard to say whether it's the normal frustration all mums get sometimes or something scarier.

I have no idea right now exactly what I'm going to do to deal with this (a lot of reading first I think!) but that's a really good push to do something and not just repress it. Ta

better in some respects, perhaps not in others.
I cant make an objective comparison because the circumstances differ

I dont think either of us were particularly suited to the role..probably we both did our best.
Of course the children deserved better, but, well...sh1t happens!

Oh yes, I read a profile of Aun Sang Suu Kyi (sorry, sp?), she is very estranged from one of her sons who lives in the UK, apparently he has not forgiven her for leaving her family.

Beattie I'm so sorry you're going through all that right now, I hope you have some other sources of support?

We're not half way through the fortnight yet! She's just stormed out of the house for some trivial reason. My dad is here too but is very passive about this all. No idea why he is still with her.

Sorry for my brief post then. my mum came in then. She's just ranted at my ds2 that he is horrible and has an attitude problem after he shouted at her, admittedly thats not nice. He's 4 and had a difficult day at hospital for appointments all day.

I agree OP I'm almost too scared to start reading about it. But I'm so upset for ds2. He is a challenging child, but he's a child!

Best of luck to everyone dealing with this. It's really making me think and realise that things were worse than I realised. And reconsider leaving ds with dm, even if I'm just upstairs - she's already said/done some worrying things and he's only 16mo.

Your poor ds weasle. Please give him and cuddle and tell him how brave he is, and while I'm being bossy, have a on me!

Will read and reply properly later but in short, yes I do think I am doing better than my mum, and yes it hurts quite a bit.

My mum always used to say "when you have your own children you'll see" (what she had to put up with, how hard it is etc).

When I had kids all I 'saw' was how unnatural and awful my childhood was. It turns out that my mother's almost certainly a narc and is definitely toxic. My childhood was materially privileged but very very confusing, isolating and sad.

As a result of being raised 'knowing' everyone in the world hated me and was watching and judging me, I have some ishoos still. But I've sought help (my mum refused to take her medication for manic depression as it was then), I apologise to my kids if I'm unreasonable and I don't lie to them.

I think I'm a better parent.

Exactly what mine said Felicity ! In fact she almost put me off having children with that comment! It took to the age of 35 to realise that children might not be 100 per cent burden, and possibly even a little bit of fun.

felicity I always thought I would understand my mum better when I had dc and I do understand, I understand what a shelfish, weak, person she is.

It does give me some insight and some sympathy for her, she's a much better Nan than she was a Mother.

My mum has the most beautiful heart .

weasle I'm so sorry you have so long to go -- hang in there! Come vent here whenever it gets really bad if that helps

I also feel the same as felicity, now having a child of my own I'm even more appalled at things my mother has done.

She has just left. It was not a good parting. She was completely unreasonable and melodramatic and yet I feel so guilty

On the plus side, this was the first time DH saw her like this, and he was really horrified by her behaviour and said he understands now why I feel the way I do, and why certain things are so problematic for me.

He also stood up for me when she tried to tell him what a terrible daughter I am, I think that was great