I am a co-dependent daughter of a narcissist who is married to an abuser? Or have I just been reading too much?

[BeattieBow]

Actually this is a serious question. I am about 2 years into my journey of examining my relationships during which some quite dramatic things have happened in my family.

I realised my mother was narcissistic 2 years ago just before my 40th birthday. It completely changed the way I looked at her and my childhood. I won't go into details here, but she has always been all about her, my childhood was punctuated by periods of her not talking to me and my sister (for days sometimes from a v young age), criticising and comparing us. THis continued into adulthood with both of us very scared of upsetting her and her becoming more and more self absorbed. I realised 2 years ago when I had a traumatic miscarriage when I needed her support which she coped with by running away and threatening suicide what she was like. All of the pieces fitted together.

Then I started to think my H was emotionally abusive. He fits alot of the descriptions of the Lundy book. He certainly is controlling and I would say has addiction issues (to work and alcohol really).

and now having thrown my H out, I am dealing with aspects of my own behaviour that aren't ideal. I have realised that I am extremely needy - really need him to love me, and have been trying to fix his various issues for 23 years. There are lots of issues. Having read a few of the dependency links it was a lightbulb moment to realise that a lot of it applies to me so clearly.

Coupled with this is the fact that my dad left my mum when I was very young. This undoubtedly affected her (as did her alcoholic violent father) but I thought it had not affected me. But perhaps that was foolish of me and maybe I am bound to be affected by my father "abandoning" me.

So having done my usual thing of reading lots I have decided that I have a narc mother, have reacted by being co-dependent (for years sought her approval for everything) and seeking out an H who was pretty damaged himself. Stuck with him for years in what became a pretty unhealthy relationship for both of us I would say.

Does this seem plausible? Usual? Would it be common for a daughter of a narcissistic mother to become codependent and/or saddle herself with another (albeit different) abuser?

I should say I have shared this with my H and he does think I am co-dependent! (but he would as he is an abuser maybe - and he is not denying his own issues now either).

Get thee to a decent psychotherapist.... self-diagnosing and other diagnosing is a dangerous business, because you are only seeing things from your perspective. Not saying you are necessarily wrong, and well done for doing so much thinking alone but its amazing the benefit that a professional relationship can bring...

And... well labels may be comforting to a certain extent, they won't actually help that much in changing your life. You need to decide what kind of person you want to be and try and make it happen with the right help. Change and transformation is possible for you and that's the most important thing.

blimey, lot of labels and psychobabble going on there

maybe cut down on the reading and leave the diagnoses to the professionals

well I have discussed things with my sisters (in relation to my mum) and my H too. so it's not just me that thinks this.

How do you find a good/reputable counsellor/pyschotherapist? I had a bad experience once with a relate counsellor that has put me off.

If I left out the labels, the facts of my upbringing and relationships since are still the same actually. My mother has always been extremely selfish and extremely martyr like as well as hyper critical of me (calling me fat etc) and prone to huge dramatic outbursts.

My husband has been saying extremely nasty things to me and calling me horrible names. He has been ignoring me, and re-writing history.

I seem to be a doormat who just wants to be loved and is pretty insecure.

No labels there, but seem to fit the descriptions in links I have read. Labels aside, is it common for someone who has one of the relationships I described, to have more than one other problematic relationship?

As is frequently mentioned on here, our models for how relationships should work is based on what we see around us as a child.
If our mother is constantly putting her needs before ours then that teaches us that meeting our needs is low-priority. Perhaps have a look at the Stately Homes thread? Lots on there about abusive/narcissitic parents.

Yes, the sequence you describe is quite usual I'm afraid. When we've learned in childhood to predict, manage and adapt to a 'using' parent, that sets us up perfectly for adult partners who also need to 'use'. It's the kind of relationship we know best and, frustratingly, feel most comfortable with.

I could not have worked this through without therapy. Be warned; it's a long and demanding process! The NHS has good psychotherapists but, if you can afford your own, have a look on the BACP website. As well as a therapist finder, it has advice on how to choose and what to expect.

yes I have read that thread. (alot of them anyway). Have also read and posted on the EA thread. Alot of what is on both really resonates with me. I may post on there later (when I'm not at work!).

I was being slightly flippant with the labels actually because it's not those that interest me, its the list of characteristics particularly in the co-dependent defnitions, but also the interaction between the 3 different situations.

I was more concerned to end up that I was not like my mother (in relation to my own children), and it has been quite a shock to find that I am actually affected by my upbringing, although I don't know why I'm surprised. It wasn't a very normal upbringing really.

thanks Garlic. I wasnt intending to do this on my own and have been intending to find a counsellor ever since H left. In fact I should have found one when my mum did her whole running away/suicide thing and the stuff she did after this because it was an extremely difficult thing to go through on my own.

I think I have realised today that my mother has narc tendencies; the abusive relationship I have emerged from is well known/written about here.

Theory is that for us to be in an abusive relationship, there has to be something not quite right in our past, for us to lack the ability to spot behaviour that is abusive.

I have to run, may not have explained myself properly there, so please challenge me if I need to be, I've not had any time to process any of this yet.

Beattiebow

I have been reading too much too!

The labels dont help, but alot of the information sure does.

Im giving it up, all that reading.

The thing is, its not about you, or me. What do we want, that's what counts.

Who are we, actually?

agree the labels don't help. Some of the things I have read about co-dependency were so accurate they shocked me. It seemed to be the final piece of the puzzle really.

I don't suppose it's surprising that if we have a less than perfect parent and upbringing then we are also damaged by it, and may seek a less than perfect partner. In my case my mother was definitely not perfect (perhaps due to her own upbringing - I'm being charitable) and my father left when I was very little.

On the other hand I wonder whether a syndrome could be found that seemingly applies to all people if they look hard enough!

anyway, it's the way I now deal with the situations in my life that are important, not the labels.

How labels are helpful:

I have to wash in cold water

Beattiebow. When I read you text it was like reading about my own life. My Mother was and still is a self obsessed, needy, judgemental, aggressive, angry, manipulative bully who has many times told me I need therapy. She was right, and my therapist identified that I have extremely low self esteem, I feel I dont deserve anything and my needs have always been low priority. And yet Ive spent my life trying to get her approval. Im an intelligent woman emotionally I like to think yet Ive reached 50 years old, never been married and have had a succession of disastrous relationships. I think you have thought through your issues intelligently and perceptively. Ive had therapy myself which has been good but I wonder if the past is so ingrained in me that I will never have a successful, fulfilling, long lasting relationship. I bought up a daughter on my own and did my very best to do the opposite that my Mother did to me. Part of me has succeeded but part of my hasnt. I sympathise with you and hope you manage to get to the bottom of this and get some good help.

The classic co-dependent book is Women Who Love Too Much and although a lot of the focus is on partners of alcoholics think you can extrapolate.
IME, a bit of reading, a bit of posting here, and a good counsellor can work in tandem.
There is a tendency for too much labelled - look at how personality disorders are broken down into minute categories.
Basically, agree with Garlic, but start from something wrong, describe the wrongness and then explore what it could be - to continue her analogy another question to ask is
Is the electricity working? Or has the water been turned off.

thanks all.

I have started now when things have gone wrong - arguable too late since I am in a bit of a crisis and I am 41! My mother had an absolute meltdown when I had a miscarriage. Until then I hadn't really thought about her behaviour and it was that that triggered my looking into this.

in relation to my relationship, my H started being absolutely vile to me (pretty much after my mother did her thing actually, I haven't worked out how those 2 events are related yet but given that I was with him for 20 years before that event, it seems likely that they are related) and I identified this as abuse - I spoke to Women's Aid and read the Lundy Bancroft book. but actually it didn't matter if it was abuse or not because I found it intolerable and couldn't deal with it and asked him to leave.

the final part of the puzzle (for me) was my reaction to throwing him out, and actually to all of the issues we had through the relationship. I have become a pathetic mess basically! and through the relationship I put up with so much from him. For someone who I thought was strong I really haven't been at all, so I have been looking at the way I feel and have behaved and trying to make sense of it. In the end it was H who called me co-dependent (I think he must have been speaking to someone), but it has shocked me how the issues all fit together really. Again, not sure why it should shock me because it's quite logical really.

I am looking for a counsellor, but for me it's not the labels that are important, it's making sense of things, learning from them, and most importantly not damaging my dcs in the same way as I have been affected. I really don't want them to make the mistakes I have, or have the issues I have with my family/mother.

It would be nice to have another relationship in the future and choose someone different too.

I think group is very helpful if you are confused about all this. Try CoDa - codependency anonymous. I went to a slightly different kind of group and it helps as you don't feel so alone. Above all we need to accept ourselves as we are and be prepared for feedback - that means liking ourselves but also noting things that don't work so well. My experience of counsellors is that I bore myself to death talking about myself - although I actually like myself so self-esteem is not an issue for me.

You are the only person you can be sure of, so be your own best friend in this as in all things.

Somehow though I attracted a codependent abuser (I believe after thinking about it for years) who gradually got worse and worse, more and more dependent on me, even when I was not remotely strong enough to be 'adult' to his 'child' on all occasions - we had three real children! He defended his position of extreme dependence with anger and aggression, and violence as well. His judgement was completely ridiculous - and he ended up hurting himself.

Parting from him was extremely painful, even though more peaceful and a great deal less expensive. It is mourning, like a death, that is why it hurts so much. But unlike a death you get very little sympathy.

BB My mum has tended to be the same as yours. She had a total meltdown (ran away) when my OH died and when my DD was born. I have also had quite a few relationships which have in their way, been abusive.

A useful book to read is Children of the Self-Absorbed by Nina Brown.