Ending relationship with Mum - am I the awful one?

[Madmog]

I've been finding things increasingly difficult with my Mum over the last couple of years and this all came to a head on New Years Day when she was off with me again. I didn't feel like speaking to her until last Thursday when I phoned to talk to her. I spoke about four lines (one of which reiterating was that I cared), and as usual she rambled on for twenty minutes talking all about herself, how everything was my fault and apparently now my hubby (something as simple as calling to my daughter Boxing Day to get dressed when my Mum was between them!) and mother-in-law have upset her. I've tried to take onboard how things are from her point of view and phoned yesterday to address the things I can have a go at changing (although there are some I can't see a solution for). She said she doesn't want to speak to me at the moment as she has been hung, drawn and slaughtered and has to look after herself.

Now I'm a Mum I know I would hate to lose contact with my dd, but my head has been telling me the last week or so it's the end, but my heart obviously says different. I should be upset after yesterday, but it was just such a great relief. I guess to some I sound awful.

No, you are not awful. You are entitled to end a relationship with someone who you find harmful to your emotional wellbeing, even a parent.

Lots of helpful links and a space to vent with people in the same situation on the Stately Homes thread.

Call her again and tell her what you have written here that you just can't do it anymore and if she wants to have a relationship with you then the drama has to stop.

Thanks for your replies. Just feeling a bit drained and guilty here, so some support is needed.

deste - I will respect my Mum's wishes that she doesn't want to speak to me at the moment (not ungrateful for that comment though) - but if there is any way forward then you are right she does need to listen like I've listened to her. If the relationships does come to an end, I will have to see her anyway as I've got her house key, some of her money in joint names for me to access if she's ill to pay bills and loads of paperwork which I look after.

Change you phone number quick

Definitely not awful - come and join the rest of us on the Stately Homes thread. Post back the key and a cheque for the money with a short letter explaining why you want to stop contact. I did it 16 years ago and have never regretted it.

Do you think she wants to sort things out? If so, would she be up for relationship counselling? It's not just for couples and would be a space to air how you both feel and go over it, with a ref counsellor in attendance to keep the pace non-aggressive.

Do NOT enter into any joint counselling with your mother under any circumstances. This is because your mother is not admitting that she has done anything wrong in the first place and such a session even if your mother did attend (unlikely given the above) it would not go at all well for you. Toxic parents never apologise for their actions nor take any responsibility for their actions. Your mother wants you todance to her tune again.

Counselling for your own self solely is adviseable and BACP do not cost the earth.

I note too she has now fallen out with a couple of other relatives; its not them but her. Your mother sounds like a narcissist and makes it all about her every time.

Many adults who were children of toxic parents often suffer from a combination of fear, obligation and guilt. Would return the key and any financial papers you look after for her; you are under no real obligation to this woman even though she is your mother. You would not tolerate this from a friend; family members are no different.

Stately Homes thread is certainly something you should look at and post on.

Toxic parents, by Susan Forward. Good luck.

So pleased I have found this. My mum is the same. Stops talking to me over the slightest thing. I've never really known how to deal with it but I shall be joining that thread!

You would hate to lose contact with your DD, so, presumably, you would not withdraw your affection from her over trivial slights (or at all). That's the standard you deserve from your own parent. Don't run round after her, and don't model this kind of disordered relationship for your DD.

In this relationship, she is the parent and you are the child. You are not responsible for her emotional wellbeing. You are not obliged to solve her problems. In fact you cannot do it.

You don't sound awful, you sound cowed. Presumably she has behaved like this for many years and convinced you it's acceptable and right. It's not right. You don't have to accept it.

Good luck.

Why does she call all the shots?

She doesn´t want to speak to you atm-but will expect you to be ready & waiting when she changes her mind?

She doesn´t treat you like an adult & she certainly doesn´t behave like one.

And no, you don´t have to see her if the relationship ends.

Thanks so much for your replies.

I'm sure she won't consider relationship counselling (will bear it in mind though) as I've suggested speaking to Age Concern or the doctor over other issues in the past, eg health, consumer worries I haven't been able to solve, and she says she doesn't want other people involved. From a selfish point of view, it would give me a chance to say a few things gently knowing I'm not trying to get a few words in here and there and they all come out wrong.

diddl - I think she calls the shots as it's part of her personality and although she cares in her own way can't accept it others don't quite get it 100% right all the time for her. I can see exactly why things have fallen apart, but in order to address what I've done wrong I need her to understand I was getting it wrong because of how things were coming across to me and for us both to work on these things and talk and listen more.

Phoned her on Sunday even though my heart wasn't in it. When she said she didn't want to speak to me it was such a relief, so hopefully if she does come back I will be sure about what I want.

I've had a look at the Stately Homes thread, so if this goes on I will be pestering a few of you on there for a chat! Thank you so much for listening and supporting.

Why do you think that you were doing it wrong, though?

Wrong for her, maybe, but that doesn´t make it wrong.

Also, what makes you think that she will ever listen & take any blame?

Counselling certainly for your own self alone is adviseable; any form of counselling with your mother is a complete non starter. Don't even think about having any joint counselling with your mother. It will not happen and even if it did it will end very badly for you; also she has told you as much that such a thing will never happen. Such people too manipulate sessions.

She is not the nice kindly emotionally balanced mother you want or wish her to be. Nothing you do will change that fact. BTW what do you yourself know about her childhood?. I would place a bet on it that one or both of her own parents were abusive. They made her the way she is, not you.

As mentioned before toxic parents like your mother never apologise for their actions nor take any responsibility for them.

She has conditioned you into thinking you've been acting wrongly over the years but its not you, its her.

Do read "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward.

The part I blame myself for is not seeing her as much as I should, but the reason for that is that it's a 95% sided conversation all about her, what shes going through and being negative about other people. I've dreaded seeing her every time for about two years now. If I've tried to offer verbal support over what she has to say about other people, it's made clear I'm wrong or don't understand. She says I looked glazed all the time and am not listening, but that's because I just don't know what we say any more and I've heard it all before.

Having said I could have seen her more, we have never let her down with things like getting her to hospital, hubby turning out in a snow storm with heaters when her heating broke down and having to abandon the car part way home, making sure she has food if ill, taking her to Dad's grave, seen her every xmas day instead of hubby's family (which my husband has never moaned about even though he says (jokingly) she never shuts up, checking house over while away - the things you sometimes really need to do for eachother.

Well, what´s "as much as you should"?

Just wanted to say thank you for all your support and replies. Will probably be back in tears next week, but am positive today and filling my diary up with nice things - last minute weekend break with DH & DD, coffee with friends tomorrow am and going out to cinema with work colleagues next week. Also, am going to get in touch with a few others who I only see once a year for a catch up. Wish me luck!

Well done for arranging outings with things and people you enjoy.

Here are a few links you might find useful:

of narcissistic mothers daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/
Out of the FOG
reducing contact with toxic people
you and your mother can't be friends www.amazon.co.uk/When-Your-Mother-Cant-Friends/dp/0385304234/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326968420&sr=1-1

ack, screwed up links. soz.

trying again:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
Reducing contact with toxic people
When you and your mother can't be friends

That sounds great.

Hope you have a lovely time.

I haven't spoken to my dad for two years. Situation a bit different to yours though. It wasn't due to him being emotionally manipulative - just a pita. Couldn't tolerate him any more when my very premature baby was born and in sbcu. He was unbelievably thoughtless during that time and there was a real shift in my thinking. I no longer felt driven (by guilt) to continue the relationship. I decided I only wanted people around me who could help/support us. It made me ruthless. Don't regret it at all. The guilt thing can be hard to get past and usually I'd have really struggled with it but having a baby in scbu put things into perspective for me in a very neat way iyswim.

I stopped contact with my family many years ago, because of my mother. She probably did have narcissistic traits. Things were never as bad as some examples I've read on the Stately Homes threads but after about 30 years of her playing the martyr, needing to be superior to everyone else (whilst actually being pretty ignorant about most things), liking to denigrate and smirk at anyone else's "failure", her downright and blatant rewriting of history to big herself up, I'd had enough.

I didn't feel guilty, partly because by then I had my own family (DH and two DCs) and realised that asking her for parenting advice would just be playing into her hands, and partly because when figuring out how to be a parent I realised I didn't actually have many memories of being parented by her.

Madmog - you say "the things you sometimes really need to do for each other", but your circumstances sound like a one-way street to me, as though you're her secretary. Does she really need you to do those things for her?

I hope you have a lovely week, doing what you want to do. And if you come back next week in tears, there will always be someone here to support you. It isn't easy to disentangle yourself from a dysfunctional family relationship, but you've already made the first few steps.