How do I separate form my dh in the kindest way possible and does anybody have any amicable divorce stories?

[feelokaboutit]

The short backstory is that h and I have had a total breakdown in communication and now hardly talk at all, apart form superficial totally necessary stuff. I feel too intimidated to bring any of our problems up for fear of provoking an almighty row which I shall take ages to recover from. He thinks all our problems stem from the fact that the house is / has been untidy. I asked him to go and see a counsellor with me about three months ago and he said no and told me to tidy up instead.

The fact of the matter is that he comes from a family where several of his siblings display similar behaviour to his: the short temperedness, and the ability to totally cut someone off emotionally if they so wish....

H loves the kids and they him. He has also been a very hardworking (he is a workaholic) and responsible provider.

He has the ability to not talk to me for ages and ages (weeks) which has happened twice before after arguments in the last few years. Since christmas however (when I showed him up in front of a relative) he has withdrawn completely and talks (to me) very little. Either not at all or terse one liners. Occasionally relaxing a bit to talk about the children. I have withdrawn as well, but I am not the one not talking iyswim.

On the past two occasions that he went through a prolonged bout of sulking I was the one who got him out of it eventually. This time I have lost the will and or ability to do this. Also, even if he did come out of it (or it could be that we have just become so incompatible that there really is nothing to say to each other any more), the relationship we had is not an equal one where I am able to talk about how I am feeling.

I often think about separating and when I am feeling most alienated by h this seems like a probable outcome - I spent a lot of this weekend with butterflies in my stomach due to our situation for example. Then however he will resume a little contact with me (like telling me that the kids really enjoyed doing a crossword with him) and I realise that he would be dumbfounded were I to say I want to split. Also very hurt.

Added to this is the fact that he owns the house. I know that in divorce it is common for the house to be sold and the proceeds (if there are any after mortgage and debt payments!) split. However going down this route would make things very acrimonious and I would rather be able to focus on a good co-parenting relationship - don't know if this will be possible. I have no idea how h might become about shared custody etc....

On the other hand, I have been a SAHM for the past 10 years (3 kids are 5, 7 and 10, the 5 year old started school last year and I have done a training course to become a teaching assistant, am now hoping to find work but this is proving difficult) and really have nothing to my name and fairly low earning potential. Also, were I to leave the marital home to rent for example it might seem that I was leaving my children which is so not the case. I would want to set up a situation where they see both h and I as often as possible and where h and I can co-parent them in a friendly way.

I don't know what my question is really - I am wondering if anybody has managed to keep a divorce amicable and how they have done it???

Thanks for reading this far .

I would see a solicitor.

You've clearly made up your mind that you no longer want to be married to him, so go to a CAB for some info about the divorce process (although frankly they won't give you anything you can't find for yourself with some good Googling), then find a lawyer.

Amicable divorces should be pretty straightforward, but I think there are too many factors in your case (kids, SAHM, etc) that would complicate things, honestly

Don't waste your time with the CAB.

Search 'womens aid' followed by your nearest town/city/county, give your local branch a call during office hours and ask for a list of solicitors who specialise in divorce and family law and who offer a free half an hour consultation.

Alternatively post on the Legal section of this site for general, and in some cases specific, advice.

From what you've said, it doesn't sound as if you'll be able to achieve an amicable divorce/separation at least in the short term and I would suggest you prepare yourself for a bumpy ride which, IMO, will be worth it for your long term wellbeing and that of the dc.

Amicable divorce sounds very unlikely given what you've said about how your very unpleasant DH behaves when slighted over the smallest thing.
What you have described is classic emotional abuse.
You are looking at it in an amazingly generous way.
If you haven't done so already, please look at the threads in relationships about it and you'll learn a lot about what you can expect and how to stop worrying about his feelings.

You are viewing it generously, and he sounds like he's being an idiot. However... Since he would be shocked if you left, does that mean there is still space for some kind of discussion, somehow? Would an ultimatum (counselling or I leave) or maybe even a letter to him explaining your plans, be enough to open communication to get this sorted?

Thank you. Would you believe that I am also balking at the thought of writing to him (which I will have to do and have done once or twice in the past). I have an unbelievable fear of confrontation which does not bode well for any kind of divorce. In my letter (email) I will say that I am still open to counselling in the hope that he changes his mind.
I have done damage to the relationship as well which is one of the reason I would appreciate going to see a counsellor so that we can both air our grievances with the safe presence of a third person. H however has always been scornful of counselling (whether on a one to one basis or other).

reasonS

Work on your own needs first, inside yourself: get to the stage where you accept that divorce is necessary, and that you are entitled to end a relationship that is not working for you.

Then accept that it won't be nice. It will be confrontational. And you will have to stand your ground: because you are entitled to ask for what you deserve, and defend yourself. No more Mrs Nice Guy.

Then get yourself a shit-kicking solicitor who has experience dealing with controlling and manipulative spouses. You will need it.

Good luck.

2 things:
1- go and see a counsellor on your own, clarify for yourself what is going on and why you are scared of him.
2- Go and see a sollicitor and review with him/her what is likely to go on. My understanding is that, as you've been married for morew than 10 years and have dcs together, the 'preferred' route would be for you to stay in the house with the dcs until the yougest is 18yo. The fact that he house is in his name isn't relevant as such because of the length of the relationship.

Unfortuantly, the fact that a divroce is done amically or not isn't down to you only but also to him. You can do as much as you want, if he doesn't want to, it's not going to happen. However, giving into all his demands whatever the cost to you because you want it to be amicable or because you are frightened of him isn't the best way to get about it. You will loose a lot but your dcs will too.

Thanks again. Am going to see a counsellor which is helping, apart from sessions like today where I feel I am going over the same stuff again and again and boring her senseless .
I do need to get to a position where I feel there is nothing more I can do to make things better between us and I haven't got there yet. Am often beset by apathy, fear and procrastination though!

that's good! As you are getting some self confidence back, you will also find the strength to stand up to him.

I agree with this. It just always seems to me that as soon as phrases like "standing up to" are used (and I agree that I need to stand my ground when he becomes critical and domineering), there is no relationship left because if there were, there wouldn't be any standing up to needed? Or maybe I'm wrong and even in the most loving of relationships, people still need to have clear boundaries? This is not a criticism of the phrase because I agree, but it is one of the issues I struggle with. Eg. I am mopping floor and h criticizes the products I am using (this happened a long time ago). There is no point arguing with him as this will escalate or he will be unpleasant in the way he speaks - he is unpleasant in the way he criticizes anyway. However part of me then withdraws as I think this is not what I signed up for anyway, being criticized over crap like that. This only happened once but it sticks in my mind!
Before h stopped communicating at all, he was very critical about a lot of things and this is partly what has caused my withdrawal.

Look 'standing up to a person' doesn't mean you have no relationship left. Standing up to someone means that you are able to state your needs to the other and not letting them do wathever they like even if you don't agree.
The problems aren't because you are 'standing up' to someone but when said person doesn't want to hear/take into account your pov.

The example you are giving is, in very unpleasant. On the ground that few people would see a point of making a fuss on cleaning products, especially when they are not the one to use it, this is just creating argument, criticising someone for the sake of it.

The more you talk about your H, the more he sounds to be a 'not very nice' person, if not abusive... :(

I suppose this is the time to mention the Lundy Bancroft book "WHy does he do that - inside the minds of angry and controlling men". It's about emotional abuse, among other things, which sadly, I think you may have been suffering without having a name for it. The fact that you have to walk on eggshells round him for fear of his reaction is pretty classic.
Have a look on Amazon - it has opened many peoples eyes to reality on Mumsnet.

I have a very amicable divorce story but it was far from amicable at the time - took us a good year plus to re-find the friendship that we'd had before we had a relationship. Whatever you do, you'll have to grit your teeth and plough on in the knowledge that the first year will be hideous but it will be worth it for your longer term happiness and well-being.

What did help for us was Relate - not to hold the marriage together, but to end the marriage quickly and fairly. And those sessions gave us some closure - I could talk about my unhappiness, and he could talk about his. I think that's probably why 15 years later (and remarriages, other DCs etc) we're still close friends. Worth a shot for you?

Instead of withdrawing from possible confrontation, you need to gather your courage and start taking small steps towards becoming more assertive.

Next time he criticises or sulks over something you do/have done, calmly tell him 'what you have said/when you sulk doesn't make me feel very good about myself and when you find fault/sulk it doesn't make me feel kindly disposed towards you'.

If he's unwilling to engage in any discussion of why he finds it necessary to criticise and or sulk over minor issues, tell him that this relationship isn't what you've signed up for and unless there major changes in his attitude you'll be signing out of the marriage.

I would suggest that before you consider 'standing up to him', you gain some strength from knowing what you can expect in terms of financial settlement if you decide to petition for divorce on the grounds of his unreasonable behaviour.

Life's far too precious to put up with the misery of an unfulfilling relationship.

My H and I decided to split Dec '10 and he moved out in March '11 - it has been an incredibly amicable split throughout and, in fact, I'm currently staying with him for a few months. Living together after the split was difficult and we have both annoyed and irritated the crap out of each other at various points, but I can honestly say there has been zero acrimony or real emotional upset/drama. It's been about as 'perfect' a split as possible, if one can say such a thing, and we co-parent (50/50 custody) pretty well.

I think amicable splits are partly down to the personality/attitude of the people involved and partly (mostly) to do with the circumstances of the separation and state of the relationship/feelings for the other. We were both committed to having a good separation, but it wasn't that difficult because we did it before it was really dysfunctional and/or hated each other and neither was still in love with the other and it wasn't a shock and there were no other people involved etc so neither of us had to deal with lying, hurt, nastiness, shock, grief and all the things that cause break-ups to get nasty.

Have you actually broached the subject of separation with him? On the evening I told him, how I started the conversation was to say that at the counselling we were due to go to, I wanted to explore separation as a possible outcome. In the end, it took us about 10 minutes to establish that we didn't need to do that and it was over.

Hello OP I agree with izzy - the phrase "doesn't make me feel good" is a good statement to use. We're often taught that in conflict/arguments - or rather, how to prevent them - saying "this makes me feel X" is better than "you did x and caused y".

A friend once mentioned something similar - a breakdown in communication - happening in her marriage. She couldn't coax him to talk, so she wrote it all out in a letter (not email or text) and gave it to him. It helped him open up more, and today they are a strong couple.

Another male friend told me - men hate confrontation, they would rather do something. I don't know if the tidiness of the house is the real cause of the problem. There seems to be something bothering him, but he can't say what it is. And that may be why he doesn't want to do counselling - because he will have to talk, and be confronted.

What is he like when he gets criticised? ie if he criticises what you use to clean the floor, what happens when you or another person criticises what he uses on or does to the car or how he handles the finances?

I remember that before becoming an SAHM, I used to be thought of as being quite critical and opinionated at work. I would however have been horrified to hear that someone was upset or afraid of my criticism - actually I wanted to hear people explain why they did what they did, or put in their own opinion - "I agree with you partly but I think we could do better if we followed this other idea". I just couldn't bear to see people going about work being less than committed or passionate about their vocation. Now, I'm not saying that this is what your DH thinks - that's he's really passionate about cleaning! I just don't know if he realises he's being critical - he might just think he's making conversation or showing interest in what is going on. But perhaps if you wrote that down in a letter, if he did care enough about his marriage, he might turn round and give you an explanation. You might have to describe a few situations for him and remind him of what he said that made you feel that way.

I don't know if this is relevant or whether you just had a bad day today but what you said about the counsellor was interesting - you said that you thought you were going over the same things and that she might be bored, not that you thought you were going over the same things and that you were not getting the help or answers you needed. I am wondering if you and your husband have the dynamic of him being the strong, tough one and you being the sensitive, sweet one (a dynamic that traditional society would have approved of) ? - you can tell me if this is way off the mark. Unfortunately, this dynamic, while it can work, can also mean that when the tough one stops being considerate and protective, and starts being distracted and self-centred/preoccupied, it can lead to a dynamic where the sensitive, timid one becomes effectively at the mercy of his moods, because he calls the shots. You may be sweet, but you don't have to be trodden upon. Either try discussing this with him with the phrases izzy has mentioned, or try writing the letter. Won't do any harm giving it a shot before you start getting the solicitors (ie dipping into your bank account) involved.

If things were amicable, you wouldn't be getting divorced. It is not your responsibility to make his life pleasant.

Sadly, your relationship is unlikely to improve through the separation process if it has not improved despite all your attempts during the marriage.

I admire your kind thinking but do be realistic too - if he has been cold, stubborn etc during your relationship he will continue to be rude and stubborn when you are apart.

The early days of separation can be very fraught with a lot of fear about change rapidly moving to high emotion and blame.

I agree with the suggestions of obtaining legal advice, continuing counselling for yourself, and possibly spelling out your wish for a separation in a letter.

Come up with a plan about whether or not you want to stay in the house, would the children stay with you etc

You can then present him with this information and thus provide a starting point for discussion. Personally I prefer written contact about touchy subjects as I can respond when I feel ready. You could end it with "What do you think?" so as to be clear you are willing to hear what he has to say.

He may surprise you by responding with "OK, I'll move out on Saturday, I will pay maintenance and I would like to see the children twice a week" (HAHA), he may write back and say "It's my house and I'm not leaving" or he may not respond at all.

You can then deal with his response, whatever it is.

I do have a positive relationship with my ex and he is a better parent than he was when he lived with the children ft, but it was a long haul to get to this point.

This is an old thread.

I remember a similar thread - I'd asked whether the house was a mess and the OP didn't reply. I'm sure it's the same person.