WWYD - Is this my business?

[ElusiveCamel]

Background: Husband and I split just before Christmas last year and he moved into a flat this year in March. We share custody of our 4 year old DS 50/50. Ex and I get on pretty well and he is very accommodating and helpful to me. I am going to be moving into his flat very soon (staying in DS' room) for a couple of months while I look for somewhere to move.

The issue is the cleanliness of his flat. He's always been messy. When we were dating he blamed it on lack of storage/organisation. We moved in together and he became better and always did his share of the cleaning. Cleaning was always instigated/directed by me but he always did his best. His flat is an utter tip though and also isn't cleaned enough. His mum came to visit last week and, as he has done me several big favours recently, I offered to help him get it clean & tidy before she arrived. The bath was utterly gross, really dirty and grimy. My little boy's toilet seat had dried wee under it (we have the same seat at my house and I rinse it straight away if there's any mess). Thick layers of dirt all over etc.

The only reason why I think this is any way my business (if it is, I'm not sure it really is) is because I don't want my little boy living like this. To be fair, my husband is alway clean himself and my little boy is always bathed (although in that gross bath) and in clean clothes. It's not like I think he's neglectful, but:

a) I don't want my boy to be in a dirty/unpleasant environment. Who would?
b) I really want him to learn how to look after things. This is something that has always driven me nuts about H - the fact he doesn't look after things and this is not a habit I want DS to pick up. I work hard (so does H) to provide clothes, toys and things for DS and it makes me so angry to see things broken and lost through not being looked after. Of course, I know he's 4 and accidents happen, but he needs to be taught as he grows how to take care of things.
c) I want him to learn to be a (reasonably) tidy and self-sufficient person. Being tidy is a series of habits that one needs to learn over time.

I'm not a complete 'neat freak' and my home does not look like a show home 24/7. I'm not expecting that H should keep his flat according to impeccable unrealistic standards and really how he chooses to live is his business, but I also don't really want DS living that way and learning those habits.

why move in if you feel like this?

Re-read ninah.

No, I'd feel the same, I wouldn't want my DDs to be in an environment like that. That's not just a bit of mess, that's filth.

Would he take straight talking and a chore chart a la Kim and Aggie? With a cleaner to come in and go over it thoroughly once a week?

Err, I answered that in the OP and it's utterly irrelevant to what I'm asking. My concerns regarding the environment my son spends 50% of his time would be the same if I wasn't going to stay there (for a very short period of time) and I'd be making exactly the same post.

Does your dh 'notice' the dirt/grime/mess, but simply not find the time to do something about it? Or does he simply not care?

Can he afford a cleaner? Even once or twice a month would make a big difference.

SarahStratton I forgot to say in my OP that I think he'd be hurt and get very defensive if I raised the issue. Before we moved in together he would react that way if I mentioned it, although he would let me help get his room (was in shared house) organised a few times and I used to clean the kitchen/bathroom there a lot even though I didn't actually live there. Maybe I could do something when I was there and hope he continued after I left again, I'm not sure.

I think you are going to have to mention it- even if it means saying in a jolly ha-ha kind of way "I need to clean your bath before our DC sits in it!"

It's fine if he is the only one living there, but not if your son has to share his dirt.

why not deal with the dirt when you move in and see if he gets the message, then will carry on when you move out?

Is he organised - does he have adequate storage for clothes and shoes? Cleaning products? It sounds like he knows what to do when told, but isn't able to recognise when things need to be done.

I know this is going to make him look like he's about 4, but would he accept it if you made a chart for him to follow - ie Bins out Monday. That sort of thing? With a notice on the kitchen and bathroom doors telling him that XYZ needs to be done every day.

I don't blame you. I'd feel the same. It's disgusting. And people who live in dirty homes smell dirty. - even if your body is clean and your clothes are washed, when you live in a dirty house, it just clings to you. You don't smell it yourself, but others do. (I have a friend with a very dirty house and even though she's clean in herself and her clothes are - you can smell it. I wouldn't like that. I think you're going to have to have a very difficult conversation about it with your ex husband. It isn't hard to clean. he's really no excuse.

Taking it off topic though - It's going to drive you nuts, isn't it? Living in that? when you move in, how are you going to avoid becoming the housework fairy, falling into the 'wife' trap, iyswim or getting bogged down in domesticity? How are you going to avoid ending up being cooking cleaning laundry doing wifey?

yes that's what I meant, it will drive you insane surely? even for couple of months?

oh, x-post. you can't mention it.

Well. You're up shit creek in a concrete canoe then, aren't you?

Perhaps, if it's that bad, you may have to risk offending him, because his hurt feelings aren't as important as a halfway sanitary home for the child you share!

I really feel for you, tbh. Having to go and live in that. I can quite see you ending up being the cleaner while there. and that could result in slipping into relationship roles that would not be helpful to any of you. you poor bugger.

Earlybird I think it's a bit of both. He once asked about getting my occasional cleaner's number so maybe I could suggest it again. I'm not sure he'll want to pay for one, but it's the most obvious solution. And yes twice a month would make a difference. I swear that bath hadn't been cleaned in months - took 2 or 3 good scrubs to get clean.

If you both work could you offer to go halves with him on a cleaner to come in once a week or fortnight? Paying only half might be an incentive in the beginning. He may then continue to use cleaner when you leave.

I wouldn't like my DS to be living in flith 50% of the time either, but unless it is a major health hazard there is little you can actually enforce and it sounds like you may ruin a fairly amicable coparenting relationship if you bring it up negatively.

I think there is not a lot you can do until you move in. Then could you suggest a rota as a way of sharing the chores as you will be a flat mate rather than a partner iyswim? So rather than going in guns blazing you are suggesting that the bathroom is cleaned on a Monday evening and you do alternate weeks and so on?

Well, I suspect I will end up doing cleaning/tidying while I'm there! I'm not too bothered by that because a) he'll clean if I'm doing it and telling him what to do and b) it's a small way to repay him for the big favour he's doing by letting me staying there

Not worried about the laundry or cooking. He cooked 95% of the time while we were married (because he's an extremely fussy eater) and we won't be eating the same food - I've radically overhauled what I eat and don't eat the same as him anymore over the last year. He's always been good at laundry, thank goodness.

maybe your living there will work out for the best, you can set up some basic routines which hopefully he will continue to follow, and highlight hygiene issues like toilet seat (urgh). Maybe he will be more receptive to this as a co-parent then he was as a partner. Good luck, you're a braver woman than me!

Thanks everyone. I was posting to see AIBU or not and relieved the consensus seems to be not. Was really cross last night when I went to drop off something for DS and discovered that his birthday present (from Saturday) had been left lying out on the floor and ended is now broken - along with lots of his stuff that's there.

I went out with DS and MIL (who is staying there) today as ex has been in bed with a headache for the last few days and she has been left with DS on her own. So we went to a cafe and as we sat down she launched into the longest moan ever about the state of the flat and how he's reverted in every way to how he was before he met me. Apparently she's been having a go at him this visit then thrust £80 at me and said please would I organise a cleaner to start coming in.

Will see what happens, but I'll try establish a routine when I'm there and see if having a cleaner helps.

and highlight hygiene issues like toilet seat (urgh)
I know. It's really urgh. When I helped tidy up last week, I must've picked up about 10 empty loo paper cardboard rolls from the floor next to the toilet. Today there's one there again - how difficult is it to take it with you when you leave the bathroom? It's only a 2 bedroom flat - the bin is yards away from the bathroom.

It is crazy that you can't just give him a talking to about it.