Does it get better?

[Disco2000]

Namechanged for this...

Anyone suffer from a very rocky time in their marriage when dc's were little? Everyone talks about the stresses involved in having kids, the impact of sleep deprivation/not having enough time for each other - but how do you know the difference between what is 'normal' and when your marriage is failing?

We have 3 kids under 4, youngest only 4 months old. Of course this is going to be challenging (particularly this winter where we've had one bug after another) but in some ways we have it very easy compared to most- we are financially secure, live in a place we love etc etc. Despite this DH seems so angry and grumpy with me a lot the time. He's great with the kids, but lately I feel as if he likes me less and less. We row and bicker a lot. We still have good times, sometimes, but things are not great between us. I feel a lot of resentment building up on my side because of his behaviour.

Anyone go through this and come out the other side? Xxx

I can relate to this but from the other side. We went through a really tough patch after DD1 was born and after I had a MMC last year. I was resentful of DHs life (seeming to me) not having changed whilst mine was upside down. I wasn't very nice to live with. Some of it was birth trauma, I had injuries to recover from so didn't feel like having sex for over a year.

We had some counselling but not enough to make a huge difference. Things just got better. I worked on myself, on why I was behaving the way I was. We did live like housemates raising a child for months though.

After the MMC I was discussing divorce with DH. I don't even know why. He was baffled but I think it was a reaction to the mc, I thought it hadn't affected me at all.

Anyway, now things are great. DD2 is 11 weeks old. We are settled, loving. I still get annoyed about things to do with the children (always me dealing with both DDs at night for example) but we're genuinely happy again.

It sounds like your DH has some issues to work on though. Is he stressed at work? Have you tried counselling?

Keep the faith. Kids frazzle the best of us. try to make time for each other, tiny acts of kindness. if you feel resentful examine the specific reasons and try to address what they are. I am used to a free floating arsiness that takes over in our house from time to time. it can escalate to a row that has come from nowhere and if the source is not found, then it is merely a bed of embers for the next kick off. Nip it in the bud quick, get it sorted there and then. Easier said than done with little ones but it is the kind of shit that is corrosive over time. It happens to everyone and I think everyone has thoughts of "stuff this", don't worry.

Plus I find having 2 children difficult and DD2 is such an easy baby. The volume from two kids drives me insane though. DH and I never get time alone which is hard - I miss him even though he's in the house.

At the moment we just keep reminding each other that the first year is hard. We talk about our future and accept life is about the kids right now.

Can you get a baby sitter and spend some time together? A lunch in a local pub or something?

It depends on why he is angry and grumpy and lately appears to like you less and less.

It might be the demands of small children and the lack of personal time.

Or it could be an affair, because that is one of the most common causes of suddenly grumpy behaviour and apparent dislike of and disdain towards a partner. If it feels personal to you, best to rule that out or in.

Thank you KK. It's good to hear that you've come out the other side. I have said that I think we could benefit from counselling in the past but he has been dismissive. I would hope that if things got really desperate he would come with me. One of the main issues is that his arguing 'style' is very toxic - if we disagree about something he will fling insults at me and then stonewall - and counselling could help him see this, perhaps.

He is such a good man in so many ways but I feel that he has no real respect for me at the moment. Interesting what you said about not sleeping together for a year (so sorry about your MMC), I lose all interest during pregnancy and breastfeeding, which can't help matters. Right now I can't imagine that side of things returning, tbh! He was saying the other day that he misses it, but how can he expect me to want our sex life to return when he talks to me like dirt? It's a mess :(

You're probably going to cross post now, but has he always flung insults at you and stonewalled you? Have you always felt he has no respect for you? Been dismissive when you've tried to sort out your problems?

Thanks again- Lola I know exactly what you mean about free floating arsiness! It's just so hard to know whether the issues are bigger or not. Sometimes he really behaves like such a twat (I burnt my arm on a hob he'd accidentally left on the other day and rather than say sorry, he told me to 'stop being hysterical' when all I said was 'ow!' and 'please try to make sure not to do that again'). KK we do get out to lunch sometimes and have a laugh and a nice time- which makes me hope all is not lost, but it's just so easy to descend into negative stuff again.

Hatty - I've called him up on his moods and his anger, and he has in the past, acknowledged his behaviour can be unacceptable. He doesn't seem to be able to stop himself though. Am pretty confident there is no affair going on though - he has been working at home for the past year, so I know where he is the vast majority of the time!

I would say counselling was good in helping DH to see how he was affecting my mood. He used to say "they butchered you" about the hospital were DD1 was born. I would get upset because to me it meant that he saw my body as butchered!

The counsellor was brilliant and it was her explaining it to him that made him understand why it was so upsetting for me. He's never said it since.

She also helped us to see the good things on our relationship and that made us start to appreciate each other more.

I think I was a stonewaller - is that ignoring someone? I don't do it now, I sort of realised it wasn't normal and stopped. So people can change but it needs self awareness and a desire to change. I'd grown up with that behaviour at home but later read how damaging it was.

Insults would be hard for me though. I never say things to purposely hurt someone if we've fallen out. Does he say things just to be hurtful? How were things pre-DC?

Sorry xpost. Feeding DD2 and posting from phone = slow!

Yes, but you say he has been getting worse lately. The hob incident shows that he has no empathy for even your pain at the moment.

Affairs are often conducted 'online' under the euphemism of 'working from home'. Is he open with his phone and his computer activity? Come to bed at the same time as you, or does he stay up late 'working'?

Hattytown - well, I guess in the early days (we've been together 12 years) we didn't argue so much. While he's always had a tendency to lose his temper quite easily, and then retreat from arguments, I definitely feel he has become 'nastier' in what he will say to me during a row. :(
I've challenged him - asking if he would talk to his friends/colleagues like that (of course he wouldn't), but this seems to make little difference.

He is open with his phone and computer activity and we go to bed at the same time - I really really don't think there's any type of affair going on.
But you're very right in that he doesn't have much empathy at all - for example there is a very upsetting situation going on with another member of my side of the family. I really just need DH to be sympathetic about it, but instead he is just frustrated that my response to the situation isn't what he thinks it 'should' be, which is rather rich given that he hadn't experienced anything like it himself!

KK - did your husband willingly go to counselling?

Being there too. Except that I've put up with H behaviour with much longervthan you have (nearly 6 years! ) before I started to do anything about it.

H wouldn't go to counselling so no help on that side.

I found that, for things to get better, we both had to change and that I had to make the first steps.
I did look at my behaviour and try and change the things that weren't quite right. Eg: I had a tendency to be bossy and tell H what to do, for example regarding the dcs.

I also realized that, in some ways, I was actually enabling his behaviours by putting up with them (even if I was getting grumpy and angry, I was still accepting whatever he was doing iyswim). So I made a point of always telling him I wasn't happy with it. Not in the way you are talking about (did that and it didn't work) but by very calmly stating 'This is a put down. When you say that, it makes me fell like xxx'. I thnk iot only worked because 1- it was matter of fact and 2- I said it very calmly (I found that sometimes it helped to wait a bit until I had calmes doen enough to say it).

I stated to H what was the one thing that I found completely unacceptable (H used to put me down too but it wasn't what was the most importnat thing for me). I explained that it was a deal breaker for me and it had to change (so H could concentrate on that point).

Then to be fair, H did raise to the challenge. It took time and one critical incident for him to realize that he had to do something.

Now things are getting better and for the first time in years we actually manage to spend time together wo feeling tense.

HTH

No he didn't disco. I went for counselling for PTSD after DD1 was born but after the first session the counsellor felt it would be better to see us both. He really didn't want to go but we were so desperate by then that it was counselling or split up.

We moved house (counties) part way through our course of counselling and DH was adamant he wasn't starting again with another counsellor over here but fortunately we seemed to be over the worst by then.

xpost.

Disco,
I found things did not improve until I stopped expecting him to act in a certain way (eg support me when I had some problems with my business). Sometimes, too much expectations get in the way. You want your partner to act in a certain way, they feel that they 'have to do so' so are not happy to make the effort (think of a rebellious child), then they don't do it, you get upset and they get ressentful because you are asking too much etc...

However, when I stopped putting some pressure on H to 'act appropriately', H then acted as I would I liked him to react....

NB. If his answer is that you should be acting a different way and he is expecting you to do like he says, you don't have to do so! Just state you want to do things in a different way and get on with it.

Know thyself- very interesting, thank you. Similarly I have a tendency to be a bit bossy over the dc's - though with me it's very much tied in with a level of anxiety. DH is brilliant with the kids but DOES have a tendency to do things like leave hobs on, so I am always a bit frantic about safety. This drives him nuts, but I can't just bite my tongue on this when I feel something might harm the kids.

I also try to do the calmly explaining thing, but it doesn't seem to work that well!

I remember very clearly when the dcs were little, I was exhausted by the end of the day. H was coming back home, sometimes after the dcs were in bed. There was still a few toys laying on the floor. The first thing that H did was to tidy the toys away, even before saying hello to me.
He didn't understand how difficult it was. And hasn't until he was left in charge of the dcs on his own on a regular basis.
Then he got it.

On safety, I would look at the things that are NOT so dangerous and let him get on with it on his own. He will get the message that there are things you can not do with young dcs around.