A Christmas Misogynist - what do I do?

[tigermoll]

Sorry, this might be a bit of an epic

I have an older brother, who has long had a history of bad r/ships with women. His usual pattern (and by 'usual' I mean 'that this is exactly how all his r/ships have progressed since he was 20, - he is now in his 30s) is to have a LTP, on whom he cheats with a succession of one night stands/short r/ships. After a few years with the LTP, - who, by now is talking about moving in/getting engaged etc - he finds another girlfriend. The old and new girlfriends overlap for a few weeks, often with him breaking up and returning to the old one a few times, until he then fully moves onto the new girlfriend, who usually has no idea about the old one. She then becomes maitresse en titre, and he proceeds with the ONS and, eventually her replacement.

Over the years, I have become more and more concerned about his attitude towards women, - I am really beginning to think he doesn't like them, even hates them. He talks about going to strippers and prostitutes, how he prefers boob job breasts to natural ones, (not because of a size/qualitative issue, but just because he likes the idea of a woman altering her body to please a man, - he has explicitly stated this) he has told me about putting pressure on partners for anal sex, and so on. He also seems to enjoy hurting women and having them still want to go out with him. He has never had a functional r/ship with a woman, and he has no female friends. In fact, he has very few friends he has known for longer than 2 years.

He is my brother, and we have always been close. But this is making it harder and harder for me to like him. He also seems to want me to know for some reason, - he has always come to me and told me these stories, as if daring me to flinch. He also phones me up regularly when it all goes wrong, crying, flagellating himself for how he's behaved, and promising to change, He never does change, natch. He also lies to me, (as well as everyone else) - you never get the full story about what's going on, only just enough to make you feel sorry for him. He has had a few MH issues/brushes with suicide in the past, and will sometimes hint at this if things are going especially badly.

This christmas, he is currently in the 'flitting between two LTR' stage, which he has assured us is 'all sorted out' but then made it pretty clear to me that he is still involved with both of them. This put me in a difficult sitch with our parents, who are worried about him 'not being happy' and him being involved with 'predatory females who won't take no for an answer'. I had to do some pretty hard tongue-biting over that. One day he disappeared off to see current maitresse en titre, but I strongly suspected he was in fact with ex-girlf. I knew he would want to talk to me about it, but I had had enough. When he pushed the point, I told him I didn't want to hear and asked him to leave.

So, what do I do? My current plan is to refuse to talk to him about anything connected to sex/love/his private life ever again, but that is difficult. He drove me to the station and kept trying to get me involved, - even to the point of calling one of the women in front of me and making plans to see her. He keeps hinting and sighing about 'being on his own for NY' but I won't bite.

But do I have a duty to do more than this? I am beginning to be worried about what sort of a man he is, and the damage he does to women. Should I tell his current girlfs what is going on? Should I tell our parents? Should I confront him in strong terms, call him a misogynist and advise him to seek professional help? (he has had concelling in the past but has not stuck at it).

Thanks to anyone who got this far

You could try sitting your brother down and telling him that the way he behaves is not right, that there is something wrong with him and that for his own sake he needs to get professional help to adjust his behaviour. Because if he carries on hating women and taking a pleasure in harming them, he will not only remain lonely and unable to form happy relationships, but he will sooner or later cross a line and end up in prison. Or if you think he will just shout/sneer/put his hands over his ears, send him a letter or email. But also add that you are no longer prepared to hear the details of his mistreatment of women, nor to cover up for him, and any time he tries to involve you in his latest doings, say 'Remember what I said, you're hurting yourself and other people and you need help' and put the phone down or walk away.

I might have a bit of a dry run, - write out exactly what I would say to him, unvarnished, truthful, as if I had had a dose of veritaserum, - and then see if its the sort of thing I might be able to say out loud. Or at least send.

And also, when I've done that, have a good think about the possible outcomes, - ideal/worst case scenario, etc.

i am finding this thread so absorbing. He sounds like my brother in so many ways. However, he has been married now for about 15 years but was caught out so badly by my DH in freak circumstances which has confirmed my suspicions of ongoing infidelity. He is not in contact much with us these days, given he is a gifted and driven artist (?) and it is a blessing. He is unpredictable, violent, manipulative, dishonest arsehole of the highest order and no amount of making allowances for him will ever change that. He made my child hood a living hell. tried to stab me in a neighbours house but luckily the man of the house came home and was able to stop him. kicked, punched, sent to school with black eyes. His relationship with my mum? Alternates between golden boy and satans spawn. She never reigned him in, bailed him out frequently. It is what mums do.
Step away. This is a Personality disorder, they do not change, you are of no consequence or significance to them. Just a random recpetacle when they have reached capacity and need a good clear out. Bet he would deny any of the conversations he has had. Good luck, but get rid

You have just described my brother exactly except my brother is also a compulsive gambler. He owes me money as well as other family members and continues to spend. He claimed serious depression at the beginning of the year but continued to trreat his long term gf like crap while she tried to help him. Now although civil I have cut ties emotionally because he is so draining. All the attention seeking and creating a drama. I tried to help him and to get him to face his problems but I was wasting my time.

Thanks for your support everyone, - its both worrying and reassuring to know that other people have these issues too.

I'm also quite angry with him, - as well as making me feel uncomfortable hearing about his acts and putting me in a tricky position re our parents, he has also made me doubt all men. If he can be so deceptive, so cruel, so faithless, then maybe every man is secretly like that? I have to remind myself that I have a wonderful partner and some great male friends, and they are most definitely NOT like that. They actually like women.

I am also a bit sad at the thought of actually emotionally cutting him off. In other respects (Ha! Isn't that always the way?) he can be really nice, and he is my brother. My only brother. And I love him. We grew up together, he has my first allegiance in the world. And now he is the horrible thing that I don't like talking to.

Tigermoll, some people are just basically a bit broken. They do not treat other people well, they are pretty much incapable of doing so. Your DB, by the sound of it, is beyond ignorant generalized sexism and in the territory of serious woman-hating, which is abnormal. Women can be sociopathic too; some people are simply devoid of empathy or a conscience, but most people are basically OK.

Bit of an update....

Basically, I had a chat to a friend of mine and I realised that what you guys are saying is right, - it is a pretty messed up situation, bordering on emotionally abusive. She also helped me to see that our relationship is not normal, 'sexually inappropriate' was the phrase we settled on. (I told her a few things I'd never told anyone, nothing I'd ever added up in my head before, but it makes sense. It has been wrong for a long, long time.)

I had sent him a long email, explaining how I felt and what I thought, and got one in reply, full of contrition and justifications, along with begging me not to cut contact and to keep discussing his actions with him. Then I spoke to my parents, received a lot of info I hadn't known before, and realised that, despite what I'd said about wanting to keep in contact, that basically, I was unable to continue to be involved with him. I'm not able to be part of the solution, because his relationship with me is part of the problem. I broke our code of omerta, and spoke to my mother honestly about how I felt. She was very upset, and I felt like a heel for not agreeing to get involved. I told her that I would still support her through it, and not to feel that I am washing my hands of the situation, but I CANNOT HELP ANYMORE.

So basically, thank you Mumsnet. I realise that posting on here was the first step to admitting to myself that something was actually, properly wrong. It empowered me to seek some RL help, and to speak out about what has been happening. I am already in the process of having counselling, - oddly my brother came up several times in my assessments, although never in this context. Clearly, I've known on some level for a while that this is an issue.

tigermoll it's very sad for you but from what you have said I think you have made the healthiest choice for you & your future wellbeing. You will always love your brother but he is not your responsibilty.

A brave step well done you.