"Not-wanting-to-ask-ILs-to-babysit?" UPDATE and further issue

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www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1344663-Not-wanting-to-ask-ILs-to-babysit?pg=1

This relates to my previous thread. Sorry about the link but I explained the situation quite well there so thought a link was the best way to go.

Well I'm not sure if I mentioned in the other thread that the other problem we have is ILs asking for favours and EXPECTING them to be done! I mean really expecting. My DH never ever says no, he wouldn't even consider it and if he did they would give him a really hard time about it. They seem to think he owes them.

Actually he has said no before. Once they wanted a favour but he couldn't do it as he had the children that day as I had a hospital appointment which I couldn't miss. They wanted him to pick something up for them in his car, they didn't want to do it as they wanted to get drunk. Anyway he said that we couldn't do it and his mother went into a big sulky strop and was giving us dirty looks in front of the company they had at the time. It was really embarrassing and my DH was shaking. It had taken so much for him to say no and they reacted so badly to it. This was a couple of years ago and he hasn't said no since.

So earlier they phoned and want him to run an errand for them tomorrow. He said yes without even thinking of the effect it would have on me and the dcs because he knows of no other way to react to them. The errand will take him a couple of hours. Tomorrow we have cooking to do for Christmas day which the dcs are helping with as they love it, activities we had promised to do with the dcs, guests coming over for a few hours, the house to clean, tidy up, shopping at the supermarket and all the usual pre christmas stuff, plus he's going out in the evening. Plus of course 2 children to look after.

The reason his parents can't do it is because they have to get some shopping . . . and that's it. His mother asked him the favour and at no point did he ask why his dad couldn't do it (he'll be sitting on the sofa watching telly drinking beer). At no point did he say "yes we have to go shopping too and do this and that etc". He just says yes.

I am so upset so I have told him that his inability to say no to them is not going to affect me and the dcs anymore, and that I am not going to be stressed out tomorrow trying to get everything done because he's not going to have as much time due to doing them this favour. I am not going to entertain the guests (who he invited) if he's not here when they come, I am just going to do the cooking with the dcs as I promised them I would. I told him about a load of stuff that needs doing around the house and that we now have less time to do it in, and that if he can't say no then he will have to be busier in the time he has left available, not me! In other words he can work harder when he is here. (sorry I know I am not explaining well). I always pick up the slack and I am not prepared to do it anymore.

I feel bad as I know that sounds harsh, but I am sick of being the one who suffers. This has happened so many times before and I work my arse off and get stressed and take it out on the dcs (not intentionally of course) as I get wound up and it's not fair.

Do you think I am an arsehole?

Sorry about the massively long thread and I won't be offended if no one replies!

I agree he has to deal with the consequences of never saying no. You were not wrong, when him agreeing to do something for them impinges on your family life and time it is wrong.

He needs to get a back bone, and say no sorry too busy can't do it.

Haven't read your other thread, but no, yanb an arsehole. It's completely out of order for him not to even consider your needs and that of your family, but tbh I think he prob needs some kind of counselling to deal with his parents - his reactions to them aren't even vaguely normal and they sound more than ordinarily selfish, entitled and horrible. Punishing him for not doing what they want, is abnormal behaviour and his desperation to please them at any cost, even to being unfair to his own wife and children and causing stress in his marriage and family, is really an abnormal reaction to a request for help from his parents. It sounds like a bigger issue than him just needing to "grow a backbone", he sounds like he's terrified of their rejection and a grown man should have learned to deal with that possibility by now.

Can I ask, how did he respond when you outlined all of what you said? Did he say anything or agree or anything else? He should be taking everything you said on board and changing how he reacts to them in future.

YANBU at all! What did he say when you told him all that?
I can't believe his parents asked him to run an errand that will take nearly half a day on Xmas Eve!

Basically if he's going to be his parents' lackey tomorrow he needs to de-invite the people he invited. He needs to call them tomorrow morning and tell them that they can't come after all.

I really don't know how you put up with it. I read your other thread and in your shoes considering what they did to you at the birth of DC2 I would find it v hard to forgive them.

What's the update on the babysitting by the way?

It sounds like his parents have totally done a number on him. But you are absolutely right in that your DH needs to consider you and the DCs before making any sort of arrangement. Having read your earlier thread, it seems like the favours never come back your way, or at least not without strings and very grudgingly. I wonder about the family dynamics, why they seem to help SIL and BIL so often but not you?

I don't know what the answer is but suggest you look into some counselling for your DH to work out why he feels so beholden to drop everything to help them out when they don't even really need his help, when they are so mean-spirited about the help they've given you when you really have needed it.

OMG have just read your other thread and farkin ell he's in a bad way isn't he.

I would buy him Toxic Parents by Susan Forward and FORCE him to read it. Tell him very seriously that if he doesn't, you will take that as a sign that he is not serious about sorting out his emotional problems with regard to his parents. Or you could offer to read it aloud to him instead of watching TV and then discuss each chapter or section as you go - this might be easier for him than actually ploughing through himself and will give you a chance to talk about it as you go along. Point out to him that if he doesn't take the need to confront his dysfunctional relationship with his parents seriously and start to address it immediately, he will probably lose your love and therefore at some point, his marriage and family. This is not over-dramatic - years of resentment building up and watching your DH behave like a coward and letting you down, will erode your respect for him and without respect, there's no love. This sort of thing can really kill a relationship.

BTW I find it interesting that it seems never to have occurred to you and DH, to play the Good Cop/ Bad Cop game which lots of people play with their in-laws.

I don't actually approve of it: but the son of someone I know plays it all the time. He tells his mum he can't do stuff for her because his wife won't let him and because she respects his marriage, she lays off. Also his wife is very clear with her about when she's allowed to visit, what she's allowed to do etc. BECAUSE HE HAS ASKED HER TO BE. And this (admittedly very dysfunctional mother) can tell herself that her nasty DIL is stopping her beloved son being as dutiful as she would like him to be and Face is Saved by all. Except the poor scapegoated DIL of course. I'm not suggesting that you go down this route (I don't think it's fair on the partner chosen to be the Bad Cop and it's a bit unhealthy and dysfunctional) but it strikes me that you haven't mentioned it as an option in any of your posts on both your threads and I wonder if that's becuse your DH wouldn't even countenance defiance by proxy or do you not approve of doing that either?

Thanks for your replies, was surprised anyone got that far!

To answer questons (sorry that they aren't addressed to each poster) . . .

His reaction to what I said was to just get on with the jobs around the house I had mentioned, and so try to make up the time. He did it with a sad face. It's a bit like he's trying to keep everyone happy.

He did ask me what I wanted him to do. Did I want him to call them and tell them he couldn't do it? I said that it was up to him, he should do what he thinks is right and that I wasn't going to tell him what to do. I felt that telling him he couldn't do it would make me as dictatorial as his parents. That's not what I want, to be the one bossing him about. I want him to consider us before he agrees to stuff.

The babysitting thing ended with the night out being cancelled anyway. He's talking about asking them to babysit next week instead so that we can go out together. It's a lovely thought of course and we do need time just the two of us but why does it have to be with them babysitting?! We can't afford a babysitter to be fair so it's that or nothing.

Will look up Toxic Parents. He is supposed to be going for counselling but hasn't actually been to the dr to sort it out. What complicates things is that he also has depression, I suspect this has been caused by his familys treatment and expectations/disapproving of him. When he is down I ask him what is going through his mind (what negative thoughts I mean) but he doesn't have an answer. It seems as though it's so deeply buried that he doesn't even actually think about it rather just feels the low feelings and negative feelings that come with it (if that makes sense).

I have discussed with him (think it was mentioned in previous thread) that I won't be able to put up with it forever. It's taken it's toll massively already.

Good cop/Bad cop. My Dh has never wanted me to get involved with any family arguments or issues. He always felt that as it was his family it was up to him to sort out. He felt that same about my family as well but I told him after we had been together many years that they consider him a family member anyway, and if something affects him he has the right to comment on it. He know does that but is tactful with my family. As for his, after years and years of not being allowed to say anything and just standing there watching him being torn to shreads, and one particular argument in which his whole family turned on him (I was backing him up and ecouraging him to stand up for himself behind the scenes as he really had done nothing wrong), he has finally agreed that it is ok for me to stick up for him/us with his family. So far it has only come up once and that was with his mum but her face! She were shocked as I gave it to her straight that she was being unfair on him and she immediately backed down. There was no apology but she looked sheepish for the rest of the day. I think he realised (after my telling him 200 times) that my bottling up the anger because I wasn't able to say anything was making me ill.

Have read your previous thread and am . How you have the patience to deal with your toxic ILs and your DH's denial I cannot imagine.
Have you shown him the threads? Do you talk about the situation with friends? One of the ways that dysfunction perpetuates itself in families is the secrecy and the shame that surrounds them. If you let in some daylight, that in itself will dissipate a little of the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt).
If an outsider said, "But that's ridiculous, why on earth should you have to swear an oath of silence if you hire a babysitter?" it would be harder for him to make out that that's normal, or that it's acceptable for his behaviour to be dictated by his fear of his parents' response. If I were you I would tell everyone all about it whenever they make a nuisance of themselves.
I also think it would be very useful if you respond to one of their unreasonable demands by saying "no, it's inconvenient" or whatever and showing him that the world doesn't end when you do that.
It might be good too if once or twice you did tell him what to do. That way he would feel less guilt and responsibility over telling them no (assuming he was able to do it at all!). It doesn't have to become a pattern. But it would show him that it is possible for him to tell them no and live. As it is, if you leave the choice up to him, he will always choose his parents.
How about if you both go for counselling? As you said on the other thread, it's completely useless for him to go if he's just going to deny there's a problem and that his childhood was perfect. And this issue is causing problems in your relationship.

LesserOfTwoWeevils Thanks for your post. Sometimes it surprises me when other people are shocked by the situation as I have put up with it for so long, and DH goes out of his way to normalise it so much, that I often think it is just me being an angry person.

I don't have any patience for the situation and have bottled up so much anger regarding it. I feel so frustrated! I completely agree about the secrecy and shame thing. I do talk to others about it but not in front of DH as it would upset and embarass him. Perhaps I should to make him see how unusual it is.

I was really upset this morning and told him that I was upset because I know after this latest incident that nothing is ever going to change. I was expecting him to be defensive about it but he actually said that he is still intending to go for counselling as he promised some weeks back which made me happier, as at least there is a chance he will deal with these issues and that things will change.

When he left to run the errand earlier I actually gave him a list (going to sound a bit nutty now) of what he could say to his parents at the end of his errand for them. I knew they would be chilling out at home and he was instructed to say that he hadn't been able to do a)the shopping b). . . etc today just so they could sit on their arses?! I just wanted him to point out to them that he's a busy family man. I didn't actually think he would do it but he tells me that although he didn't tell them he was annoyed they were lazing about while he ran their errands for them, he did tell them all the stuff we had left to get done today. So a bit of progress.

Joint counselling wouldn't be a bad idea.