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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Spying on your DP

40 replies

Andy1964 · 22/12/2011 10:02

I've read a few threads here and I'm very surprised that many posters advocate spying on their DP is they have suspicions.
It does not sit very well with me and seems moraly wrong. I was bought up to respect peoples privacy.

I can understand why the advice is given, but if you have suspicions then my advice would be to confront your DP. Either be sensible and talk reasonably about it or have a ding dong row about it, at the end of the day, one way or another your communicating.
Apart from anything else, if you feel the need to go through phones, E-Mails, Internet history, pockets, briefcases, bags etc there is something wrong with your relationship and this needs to be sorted out rather than snooping around.

Sure, us guys will at times lie to try and conceal the truth but we are thick creatures at the end of the day and WILL slip up but like I said, if you are at the snooping stage then the relationship needs sorting more than anything else.

Anyone else feel like this?

Discuss ;)

OP posts:
Gay40 · 22/12/2011 10:06

I agree. The minute you feel the need to start checking up, your relationship is already in trouble. And if you think "but he won't tell me the truth if I ask", then you definitely are on the rocks.

PieCherry · 22/12/2011 10:15

In principle I agree......

It takes a lot of self control from people that have been hurt in the past, not to anticipate the same in the future.

TheSecondComing · 22/12/2011 10:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fiventhree · 22/12/2011 10:21

Andy, thats all very well, and I totally agree in theory. The trouble is, I took this option and therefore it took me 5 years to get to the bottom of my h's internet based infidelity with over a hundred women. Each time I asked, he denied and came up with a load of crap about accidental downloading with music etc.

Of course, we knew there were problems in the relationship generally. I spent alot of time raising this in as non threatening was as I could, but you men often have terrible communication skills, and he didnt want to talk about us, making out all the time that the problems were other than they were.

We sorted ourselves out at Relate, but my h now says he wishes I had been a damn sight more pushy and had caught him earlier, whilst obviously he blames himself for what happened.

So it is a tricky issue.

Also, when I finally started looking closer and being a bit devious myself, I can clearly remember feeling that I had become as bad as him, but on the other hand I finally found it impossible NOT to, it eats you up in the end. Im not whipping myself for that now, it wasnt my fault lack of trust and lies were introduced.

GypsyMoth · 22/12/2011 10:22

You have to SNOOP to collect the evidence first ( when suspecting he is up to something) otherwise they LIE LIE LIE

That's all...... It's just gathering the evidence

Andy1964 · 22/12/2011 10:28

fiventhree,
I get it, I honestly do. We men will lie to try and get out of things and distract from the truth. It's just awful that we put you in such a position that you have to act like Harry Pearce.
Glad you sorted it.

LittlestLightOnTheTree,
LoL @ gathering evidence, really :)

OP posts:
TheSecondComing · 22/12/2011 10:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PeppermintParsonsNose · 22/12/2011 10:36

If I hadn't collected my own evidence I would never have got the truth by confronting my dp. The thing is, by that time, they've generally done such a number on you that you start to doubt your own shadow. I know I did. He told me such astonishing lies that I thought no sane person could lie like that. Instead of concluding he was mad(as he was!), I doubted my own instincts. Work that one out! Xmas Confused

I'm all for snooping, for the sake of one's sanity.

PostBellumBugsy · 22/12/2011 10:45

Hmmm, Andy - whilst I agree in principle, I disagree in reality.

My ex-H tried to suggest I was mentally ill, suffering from post-natal depression etc when he had his affair. If I had not had actual evidence from his phone & emails then he would have maintained his lie. For what it is worth, I had never once checked his phone or his emails in the 10 years we had been together prior to my sense that he was not fully engaged in our relationship.

Also, when we were trying to make a go of things after I had found out, he kept telling me it was all over with the OW, but something felt wrong. I hired a private detective & sure enough he was still with her!

What is morally wrong there? Him or me? Maybe both of us. I'm not sure.

Lovingfreedom · 22/12/2011 10:51

Most people don't snoop on their partners unless they have strong suspicions. Most people don't like snooping and feel very uncomfortable resorting to it. However, no-one who is having an affair admits it freely. They lie, they cover up and they lie some more. Saying that you shouldn't find evidence for a suspected affair is like saying the police shouldn't find evidence for suspected crimes, they should just ask the people they suspect and give them the opportunity to tell the truth, which of course they would do willingly if they were only asked nicely enough. You live in a blissfully nice world and relationship OP which I hope lasts for you. Unfortunately some of us have different experiences.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 22/12/2011 10:53

us guys will at times lie to try and conceal the truth

We men will lie to try and get out of things and distract from the truth

Xmas Hmm
fiventhree · 22/12/2011 10:56

Yes, I remember that the final thing for me was putting my first thread up here and heaps of people explaining why he was clearly lying. Some of the women used the term 'gaslighting', which I dismissed as a bit radical feminist/conspiracy theory. But the bugger was doing just that. You do end up doubting yourself, and thinking you are half mad.

But Andy, I will say PEOPLE, not MEN. Men are not the only ones who can behave this way, although I suspect a few more men than women do it.

flatbellyfellaschristmasname · 22/12/2011 10:57

Andy, I think you got it wrong saying "We Men Lie" it should be " I lie ". Not all men are like you.

WorraLiberty · 22/12/2011 10:57

Oh you spoilt any chance of being taken seriously with the instruction 'discuss' at the end of your OP.

fiventhree · 22/12/2011 11:01

But you are right about one thing- they DO slip up, and not in the ways they think they do. I put my PhD to good use reading up on all sorts of theory, once I got my real suspicions going, and I was amazed at what I noticed, which I hadnt before.

Andy1964 · 22/12/2011 11:09

WorraLiberty,
Why would I not be taken seriously for starting a discussion?

Read through all of the replies so far.
I really do sympathise that sometimes there is a need for snooping. I don't suppose anyone likes doing it and things must be quite tough if you feel you have had to do this.
I'm appauled that some people (men) will go so far to blame it on their DW by suggesting their DW is ill etc, that's low.
I accept, having read the replies that it happens and I understand the reasons for it happening.

You must all agree though that if it gets to that point then the relationship needs work.
Is it better to sort the issues in the relationship out for better or for worse?
Or
Do you want to discover things that, when you do find out, you rather you hadn't?

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 22/12/2011 11:13

That wasn't what I said

Malificence · 22/12/2011 11:13

Snooping is the way that many women save their sanity Andy.

Can you imagine how it feels to suspect you are being lied to or even just a niggling doubt in the back of your mind that somehting's not quite right?

Some women (and men) have been driven half mad by partners' lies and deceptions.

It's the same reason that people need all the grisly details of their partner's affair, it's a human need to know the truth.

fiventhree · 22/12/2011 11:23

Mal, I started snooping after I got to the crazy stage of not being able to spend my time doing anything other than trying to fathom it out, on the net and elsewhere.

PostBellumBugsy · 22/12/2011 11:27

Andy, sometimes these things really do come at you from out of the blue. I had never once doubted my ex-H's fidelity and honestly don't believe that before his affair he was ever unfaithful to me. It really was a total shock. He fell head over heels in love with someone in his office - they are still together now & have 2 children of their own.

I'm 9 years on from it now, so can approach the whole thing with detachment. Yes, there were probably some warning signs, but we had a toddler & a newborn baby. I really, really didn't see it coming. By the time I was suspicious, I was finding my evidence - if that makes sense.

I can't imagine what conversation I could have had that would have headed it off.

Alltheywantisahole · 22/12/2011 11:29

If a partner male or female is capable of having sex behind your back then they can and will lie easily to cover it up. End of.

Very few threads on here ever read ......"I did suspect OH is shagging around because I found a used condom in our car and a ladies thong but its OK because he admits he has been shagging Sally from the office for 4 months now every Tuesday after work. Yes this hurts me like hell but now I know whats what I can decide what I want for our future."

Its more likely to read........ "I have found a ladies thong and a used condom in our car. After, much thought on how to confront DH and taking advice in Mumsnet I decided to ask him to bloodywell explain himself. DH says the used condom must have been chucked through the window as he stopped at the MacDonalds drive through (the one at the rough end of town) late the other night. As for the ladies thong, they were planted there by his arsehole of a mate Jon who as my DH says I know is always playing silly jokes"

OK - so I have taken the piss there but the point I am trying to make is, in some cases no matter HOW strong the evidence, a cheater will pretty much always bullshit their way out of any situation. If 100% bullshit does not work then they will limit the truth to whatever they think they can get away with.

Few people would up and leave a relationship of several years, uproot their kids on a pure hunch. I know I would not up and leave my partner just because of a few iffey texts that were a bit over the mark imo but certainly not damning or because he had visited a dating website.

However, if these things happen followed by other stuff and discussion does not give you proper answers and you are still suspicious YES there are obviously issues in the relationship and YES in theory, on paper that maybe is the time to move out, uproot your kids etc etc but in reality for MOST of us we want solid confirmation as to what is what before coming to that massive decision.

And even if you decide at the point of strong suspicion to leave then the inquisitive side of ost of us wants to know who the OW/OM is and how long it had been going on for etc etc.

In my case I thought my H had been having an affair. He eventually admitted to it when confronted with my initial discovery. Obvbiously gutted I wanted more info, who how long etc. My H told me everything but would not tell me her name. He told me how he had met her, gone to her house etc etc.

The horrible hazy days that followed things kept coming into my head like OMG he must have been with her then etc etc.

I then looked harder for the bits between the lines H had not told me. I wanted her name. I dont know why but I did.

I went snooping deeper and deeper. Over the following weeks when we were supposedly trying to make it better and a go of things I (rightly or wrongly) decided if he could cheat then I had the right to snoop.

What I discoverd was truely shocking. No wonder he didnt want to give me her name. She didnt exist. He was not having an affair but shagging anything with a pulse. He was using internet webites that helped arrange shagging strangers without the need for polite conversation or drinks in pubs. You just purely meet and do the act then fuck off. Years. Yes YEARS!! He had been doing this for years.

This knowledge helped me make the decision to not bother working on the relationship and move on.

It was an utter shit stage of my life that really was quite traumatic. The discovery of his affair was one thing the extent of his cheating and the sordidness of it was earth shattering along with his lack of respect for my sexual health.

Knowledge is power. I am all for snooping if you have the suspicion. How many more years may I have wasted working through his "affair" if I had not made my discovery. How long before he I caught a sexual disease from him, if we had resumed the sex side with me thinking his affair was over.

My tale may be extreme, but its not unusual at all for cheaters to bullshit. Lets face it, if I was shagging the postman and my H was questioning me for details it would be plain cringey to sit there and go yeah been shagging him 20 times a week and doing oral etc etc. I would be more likely to say once or twice a week and not divulge any details.

Do many people really end relationships on a hunch? Am I totally abnormal?

Andy1964 · 22/12/2011 11:50

Alltheywantisahole,

Wow, I'm gobsmacked. No wonder you have a username like that.
I can see why you went to the lengths you did and just as well.

OP posts:
Snorbs · 22/12/2011 11:56

Sure, us guys will at times lie to try and conceal the truth but we are thick creatures at the end of the day

Speak for yourself sunshine.

If you prefer to lie rather than to conduct yourself in a way that means you don't have to then that's up to you. But don't try and excuse your personal failings as a general male trait.

duvetdayplease · 22/12/2011 12:07

I have never been in the position where someone cheated on me (I think, maybe when at uni with a casual bf but not in one of my 4 adult-era relationships as far as I know). So I don;t have personal experience to draw on really.

All my relationships have been pretty open. Can I use your phone - yes. What's your email password I want to check the amazon order's been sent, it's been ages. This kind of openness goes both ways.

If any of my partners started getting jumpy with their phone, their email, their internet history or I found out lies about where they had been I would definitely ask and then I would have snooped.

The suggestion that trying to find out if some shit is lying to you is a bad thing actually makes me quite angry. I am astounded by the number of people who treat their partners like total shit. Deciding whether to leave, most especially where kids are involved, is really tough. Relationships have bad patches. But someone deliberately shagging around and keeping secrets is not a bad patch.

I don;t see why people need all this space and privacy anyway. My husband can look at my phone or email or whatever anytime, he uses them if he needs to. The only privacy I need is in my head. Sure, sometimes I want time alone, a bit of piece and quiet. But that is not the same thing as 'an email account you know nothing about so I can look at other men's privates and arrange sex encounters'. If men or women actively seek to deceive their partners, why shouldn't the partners actively try to uncover the deceit?

yellowraincoat · 22/12/2011 12:11

The minute I felt I had to spy would be the minute the relationship was over.

If you think your partner is spinning lies, why are you with them? There's obviously no trust there.

I used to be a bit like this too, but I was so unhappy in my relationship. Now I'm with someone who I trust and who trusts me and it's so much nicer.