there really is no other explanation, is there?

[blueChristmas]

DH and I have been arguing a lot lately, he's a bit short and stressed with work, and everything seems to be my fault.
Yesterday we had our first counselling session, went quite well, we had lunch afterwards, and I was feeling positive

Then we got home and he was on the laptop, with his hotmail open, he went to show me something, then got a bit flustered, and opened another email.
But I had noticed he had a folder called "girlies"
I'm really not sure why I didn't say anything there and then, I think I was a bit shellshocked.
I had to do something in the kitchen, and when I looked again it was deleted.

This is not going to end well, is it?
I haven't been able to get anything done today, for thinking of alternative explanations, but there's nothing

He rarely uses the laptop, has computer at work, he locks his phone, no idea what he might have on there.

If you're having counselling can you just ask him during the next session?

could he have re-named it rather than deleted it?

he might have renamed it, I was just looking over his shoulder.

I could ask him at next session, but we've got Christmas to get through first!
That could be a bit of a bombshell

Doesn't look at all good, does it? He's hiding something - and I suspect it's probably more than one thing in terms of emotional or actual infidelities.

However, if you don't want to drive yourself crackers (no pun intended) over Christmas and New Year, you're best advised to file this piece of unwelcome information away and raise it at your next counselling session on the basis that the 'surprise' element alone may be enough to get him to open up in a way he's unlikely to do if you challenge him now.

actually, I think he might have just clicked on folders, and it has minimised them all. Just checked on mine, that's what it does.
He seemed to have a lot less folders when I looked again.

to me girlies suggests prostitutes or on-line no strings attached.
It's a horrible word I think
Shit

Ask him. Don't spend Christmas worrying about it.

Also, 'girlies' sounds a little bit silly and boyish. It's unlikely to be correspondence from a long term lover titled that! Maybe he's receiving messages/pictures from online sexual chat with people, which, although horrible, is a different sort of thing. It doesn't automatically mean sexual infidelity unless you've other cause to believe that's happening.

I bet he's moved/renamed it if it's important to him. Check 'sent items'.

Also, do ask in counselling. I know it's hard but the longer you leave it, the longer you'll sit on it and question yourself and the longer he'll have to think of an excuse. I really really believe that sometimes people WANT to admit, or even be caught, because the misery of hiding and lying becomes too much.

You do yourself a disservice not to raise it and you have the perfect environment in counselling where a third party will stop you feeling afraid or guilty. Don't think about how it ends. Go through it. You have nothing to be awkward about. He saw you see it. He knows you did. Talk about it.

I can't get into his email, I wouldn't have a clue about his password.

If he knows I've seen it, surely it will just be deleted, so if I confront him, there will be no evidence

ok, it could be porn, or photos.
He does have a few immature friends that send him dodgy photos occasionally

Yes, bluechristmas, but you're not a barrister in a court of law. you're notr trying to convince a jury. You know what you saw. You also know he's now deleted it. All the evidence you need is that. You're not going to him saying, "i know you're screwing around". You're jsut saying the truth, a truth you've come across through no fault of your own.

"I think you know I saw a file called 'girlies' on your hotmail page. You were clearly flustered about it, it made me feel really weird and suspicious (understandably!) and now you've deleted it, which is, frankly, even more suspicious. Please tell me what's going on, because we're going to counselling and all that stuff and clearly there's something else in the mix too. "

These are facts. These are evidence. You have done nothing wrong by knowing them. He expects to be confronted and asked. You're vulnerable and hurt and confused. It's his job as a partner to listen to you about that.
If you don't he learns that he can get away with more and more.

If he denies what you know to be true, then things are far far worse and you should know that anyway, that he's prepared to make you feel mad to get away with things.

Yeah, if it's porn that he wants to keep on hotmail rather than the desktop (so you don't see it) that seems very likely he'd call it 'girlies' or something. Totally believable. Still you should feel able to ask. That's okay in a good relationship.

thank you tessa6, you speak a lot of sense

No problem! I have been in too many relationships where communication got buried by guilt, fear and awkwardness and disrespect. It makes you incredibly vulnerable to ask, but then, shouldn't you be able to be vulnerable with him? And if he's any sort of a man he'll try and be kind and honest seeing that you're vulnerable.

funny, communication is one of the things we discussed yesterday!

At least you discussed it! That's maybe a way to start. 'I wouldn't normally raise this but what with what we talked about recently I feel like I need to and it's scary.'

It's always worth asking yourself, why am I so worried of saying this? What are you really scared of? That you'll look a fool? That he'll admit to an affair? That he'll lie to you? That he'll be angry with you? That you'll seem controlling? That you''ll row? There's almost certainly a reason, based in the relationship or your family why you're not asking. Because it's really okay to ask that, especially in the situation you're in when your senses are on red alert for any sign as to the relationship's weakness.

The only thing I would say is that they longer you leave it the less likely you are to do it. And it will sit, gnawing, late at night, for years.

But that doesn't make sense, that he'd keep it on Hotmail rather than on the desktop. All he can keep on Hotmail are links to other sites or files, so the minute he opens them, they are in the history or in the Documents file.

I would take it to be correspondence rather than just porn he's looking at, but because of the (frankly awful) folder name, it suggests these are 'girls' online rather than a RL affair.

Blue, I think Tessa's advice is spot on.

I so wish I hadnt moved my own thread to ofbt when h was checking me out in October. There was lots of useful stuff on there from re my own experience, which was my h's 5 and a half years of internet sex, it turned out.

I recognise that feeling of suspicion and also of failing to confront effectively, or confronting and having to be prepared to believe him, several times over the whole period, just because he kept denying and having techy explanations for these photos (accidentally downloaded from torrent sites with music, blah blah).

Even after I finally decided not to believe his last explanation, at the time of my thread, he still denied and denied, and in the end it was only me moving out of the bedroom and preparing to divorce which made him confess, and after 3 weeks of Relate sessions, which I was at the time using partly to plan divorce.

The thing is, one doesnt want to believe- it makes us have to reevaluate our own foolishness and naivity, plan a divorce and new life, thrown away all those years, and see our partner/h in a new terrible light- ie the man I believed was different to all of the others is not different at all, and worse than many. It is vile.

You have two options, in my view, or two sensible ones anyway. Either SAY NOTHING at all, so not to raise suspicion- as once you do that, if he lies he wont stop, and is likely to be stronger than you in wearing you down. Evidence will disappear and you wont ever find out, or not for years. You may go round it in cycles like I did, with a year or so till the next slip, and also you will get bored and frustrated looking so much. So option 1- say nothing and check him out as far as possible- look at his cache, search for photos, key words , history (he may be browsing incognito) etc etc- and try to find his password.

Or, tell him right now and dont back down, AT ALL. If you do that, do what I failed to do, and did try eventually, but too late- use the element of surprise in order to make him take you on his hotmail account AT ONCE, and let you look for yourself. Even if it isnt there- you kinow what you saw.

FWIW my h did not tell at Relate but denied- it was only between sessions 3 and 4 that I forced him to admit, over a series of long convesations, where I kept reminding him that I would not be rebuilding our relationship without it.

Sorry, so long, but truly, I feel as though I could take a degree in this subject by now.

My thought is that he's online dating or at least registered on the sites and the 'girlies' (yuk) is correspondence from there. Obviously none of us know for certain. My advice would be to ask now, otherwise it'll eat you up, and if it is dodgy, before he can think of a reply.

Oh, and the thing is, we really find it the hardest thing to invade privacy like that and force them to take us on their hotmail etc, because we dont feel entitled, but weak, nagging, clingy, demanding, invasive- all the things we dont want to be. But you can. It is fair and you should. You have a right. My h now says this, and he wishes I had been pushier earlier.

Some people dont think internet based stuff is as bad, but it sure feels it. I half wish my h had had a brief fling, so I wouldnt have to reevaluate 5 plus years of my 22 year relationship, and at a time when my elder daughter went from 18-24, ie roughly the same age range as the 100 plus girls he eventually admitted to very full on and out there sexual conversations with.

Sorry to rant. Dont let this be you, please.