ah...happy christmas...starting off with a row with my parents...

[brdgrl]

DD and I are staying with my sister for the holidays. My parents are visiting her too. Sister and I both have small children. Mom and dad have a long history of being - well, difficult to get along with. (I have two other sisters who barely speak to my parents.) But, I love them. So here we are.
Since arriving at my sister's house, they (mainly my dad) have just been totally inconsiderate. Dad barely says a word to any of us, unless it is to rant about politics. He is basically sat in front of the tv watching news and/or sports nonstop, with the volume at full blast, never asks, and even changes the channel when someone else is watching...or turning it on when people are using the room for other things. He went to the off-license and bought beer for himself, and didn't ask if anyone else wanted any (I did! desperately!) - that sort of thing. They won't observe the kids' bedtimes or mealtimes at all, and dad especially does things like take off to go to the shops when he knows we are about to put dinner on the table. He pretty much just ignores the toddlers, even when they are trying to play with him, and is actually mean to my 3 year-old nephew (dad has always been a bit inappropriate with the kids and not very patient, but he never used to be mean!) - he called him a "dumbass" yesterday when he (nephew) was crying about something. My sister didn't hear, but I said "dad!" - so ten minutes later, he called nephew "dumb" again - i am not sure if he thought that was better (as if it were the "ass" part that made it not ok!) - or if he was doing it deliberately because he doesn't like me telling him what to do.

So I finally got cross and said something, and my mum stuck up for him and now everyone is raging at everyone else. I ruined Christmas! When I tried to talk to them about it, it just got worse. Dad denies that he does anything, my mum cries and talks about their bad health, and it ends wih my dad saying "well, this is who i am and i am not going to change".

i feel like i should take DD and fly home.

Not sure how far you've flown to get to your sister's but it would be a shame for her and her kids if you and your daughter left so soon. Is there an option to book your parents into a hotel or b and b to get a little space, it would mean your dad being able to retreat and do his own thing without upsetting anyone.

That said, if it's a real stalemate and you can't see how things will improve then I wouldn't ruin yours and your daughters Xmas by staying if the 2 of you felt you'd have a happier time back home. Its not worth the angst in my opinion.

Hope everyone feels more festive tomorrow, don't let yourself become a scapegoat for other peoples poor behaviour.

thanks...flying home would be ridiculously expensive (international flight!), plus it really would be a 'we're never speaking again' sort of gesture, so I know I have to suck it up and probably either apologize or we will all just act like nothing happened and my dad will simply not speak to me for the rest of the visit.

dad has always had mental health problems, and now he is in his eighties and has physical health issues as well. i live so far away and i know that every time i see him could be the last and i always intend to be patient and not react...and then i do. i need to detach, i guess.

Personally, I think it´s important for your nephew to hear that someone is sticking up for him and to model to him that he doesn´t have to accept people calling him names.
I think for his sake you should NOT apologise to your dad. If everyone acts as if nothing has happened, maybe that´s the best. You can demonstrate to your nephew that you can still live with people who have behaved badly to you, but that you don´t have to accept the behaviour when it happens.
I would say, you should carry on as you are. Tolerate him, but show your nephew and your kids that you will not accept him speaking to them like that and they don´t have to accept it either. Just keep on saying calmly that that is not an acceptable comment, we don´t call each other names, each time your father says something so terrible. As for the watching sport on tv all the time - how awful, but I can´t see a way to change that...

Was the DN being silly?
You will never get my parents generation (or me in all honesty) to see what is wrong with calling DCs names if they have "behaved" naughtily.
If your older relatives provide regular child care then it may be worth discussion else it absolutely isn't.
Many older people associate modern parenting methods with no discipline, the heightened stress of Christmas will never be the time to explain otherwise.
In my experience sensible DCs take different people's ways of dealing with them in their stride it's only parents that care.

If your dad doesn't speak to you for the rest of the visit, that's his choice and his problem. Why should you apologise just to keep the peace? All that will prove to him is that he can continue to get away with this kind of behaviour AND get placated for it!

Stand your ground - firmly and without blow-ups. In these situations, sticking to "I" statements helps: what can another person blow up at you about if you are just expressing your own needs and feelings? You're entitled to have them (whereas he would have cause to blow up at you and protest if you started labelling him with "you" statements).

I definitely agree with those who say that this is an important teaching act for the small children in the house as well.

Does it help if you think of him as a 5yo?

"No, we don't call names, do we?". "Oh, we don't turn the volume up that loud, it's disturbing other people". "Oh, you disappeared just before dinnertime - yours is over there on a plate". "We don't shout at people, it hurts their feelings".

Can you talk to your sister and decide between you how to handle it so that your dad ruins your Christmas as little as possible?

All good advice, thank you! It seems we have taken the "pretend nothing happened" route at the moment, and Dad is acting a teensy bit better. I would love to use the "5yo" treatment on him, but I think he would just ignore the 'corrections' and go on doing things, maybe even more so. Sadly, he will push and push like a 5yo, deliberately doing the very thing you have asked him to stop, just to show "you're not the bopss of me!~- and ultimately you can't put him on the naughty step! Although I suppose that is what my other sisters have effectively done - one of them just doesn't have them to visit her, ever (whch they are quite upset about, but in fairness, she did give them plenty of notice!).
startail i am all for discipline and consequences (and am very much the 'bad cop' in my own marriage/with DD) - but calling a toddler names like "dumbass" does not sit well with me. I don't mind attacking the behaviour or even with an older kid pointing out patterns of behaviour ("you're being selfish"; or even "that was not a smart thing to do"). But there is nothing to be gained by calling names with a kid that small, and I think it is pretty unjustifiable. I do think it is partly a generational thing. But it is also, honestly, because Dad has been asked by all of his daughters, over years, not to swear at or put down the kids. I should say too that my sister is not an indulgent type of mum. Her profession is actually working with children with developmental or behavioural issues, and she always responds when nephew acts up. My nephew has been acting up, probably because there are all these people come to stay in his house, and especially we've had problems around him and my DD - standard kid jealousy and possessiveness, nothing out of the ordianary, and he has not been allowed to get away with it.
I think it's inappropriate for my dad to be reprimanding my nephew at all, frankly, when she is right there and is already dealing with it sensibly. It scares my nephew, and undermines my sister, and creates tension for everyone in the room.

As for my 18-month-old DD, Dad just ignores her when she's trying to 'talk'; he has always been of the view that kids should not interrupt and should sit quietly while adults are talking - I actually don't disagree, but I think one has to have age-appropriate expectations, too. A 3yo and an 18-month-old are not capable of sitting for twenty minutes in silence while he lectures the rest of us about his political views. We were reading a Christmas story to the kids the other night, getting them ready for bed. When I got to the part with the donkey, DD was very excited. She sat down on the floor and kicked her legs like she knows a donkey does, then she went around the room touching everyone's feet, trying to get them to kick like a donkey. My dad was watching telly in the (connected) room; she went in there and was trying to do the same thing, and he just brushed her aside. Would it have hurt him or been overly indulgent to kick his feet once or twice and give her a smile? really?

ok, now i've gone off on a long rant of my own! clearly, i have some issues to work out...