Couples counselling - how do you know if its any good ?

[whoknowsme]

H and I are in counselling

Counsellor has, after hearing me mention an incident where h tried to push me out of the door with the intent of locking me out, asked if I feel frightened. I said "no" and we then never talked about this side of his behaviour again in the session. (It's the truth, I don't feel h would attack me out of the blue but he is permanently angry, passive aggressive language, sneering tone etc).

We are in counselling as I told h I no longer would put up with his behaviour towards me and as he won't seek counselling for himself I booked couples counselling just to get him to a counsellor at all.

I do feel that he is entering this whole process in a "we have a problem, we need to sort ourselves out way" and this is the way he talked in the first session we had, the counsellor taking her lead from this is tasking us both with stuff, which is great from h's point of view as I'm going along with suggestions to make his life less stressed, giving up control of even more of my life at her suggestion. H's behaviour has not altered noticeably since we started in counselling.

I feel that he is hoodwinking her about what is wrong with our relationship, I personally think it is beyond reviving due to years and years of h's increasingly controlling behaviour and vile attitude to me when he doesn't have/get that control. I actually told him it was separation or counselling which is the only reason he agreed to go.

Surely she should have explored the violent incident and dug deeper to get me to open up about even more stuff. At the end of the first session she asked h if he consideredf he was a bit depressed and he said no, I think he has been depressed for years and taken out his misery on me. I know I'm inwardly miserable about the way he treats me and have been for many years even if I've kept up the facade of being happily married.

Does anyone have any experience in this field or suggestions. What is the etiquette of counselling, should I start the next session by clearing the air as to how I really feel and why we are there even if it seems like I'm saying I'm fine it's just H who has a problem. I swear if he could just go back to being the person I married things would be fine, but he's become a two-faced monster, reserving his nasty side just for me.

I so want to know what happened to the person I married, why did he change into being vile to me.

He's nice to his friends, why can't he be nice to me, He's supposed to love me !

He's only nice to people who can't see him for what he is.

As for him having an 'epiphany' he's more likely to lay one of those eggs you're so sure about.

I did exactly the same in your situation (i.e. couldn't bear H's angry behaviour, violent incidents like throwing things etc., plus one assault.) Couples counselling made things worse.

Relate et al specifically state that they won't counsel where there's been a history of abuse. (I ignored this because I didn't think of my H as abusive, just that there had been isolated incidents, and, well, he was lovely most of the time, especially when others were about.)

In counselling I described a time a few months previously when he'd physically assaulted me. He was drunk, I was heavily pregnant, it was a sustained and pretty awful assault. The counsellor's response was: "But he's stopped drinking now, and that was months ago and there's been nothing like it since, so what do we have to do to move on and for you to forgive him?" The organisation's guidelines said that they wouldn't counsel a couple where there was abuse. I was hoping that she would stop the session and say that this was not on. She didn't say that it was abuse, and it left me feeling like I'd made a big deal over nothing, and I should just get over it. I scrabbled around in my brain and said "er, I'd like him to apologise". So he did, and that was supposedly the end of it. It seems odd, but I had needed someone to tell me I was being abused.

When I look back many many more abusive behaviours were raised, but not picked up by the counsellor (smashing my phone when work called, screaming names at me).

So the counsellor glossed over and therefore minimised the abusive behaviour in the minds of both me and my H.

But as you've discovered already, the main reason for them saying they won't counsel couples like this is that the focus is all wrong: we have to each look at ways that we contribute to the problems we were facing in our relationship, and look for solutions. I found was just handing him more bullets. He wasn't going to accept that he had to change, and focused on what we identified as my failings to further justify his abuse.

I just wish I'd done the individual counselling instead of the couples counselling in the first place. When I did that I realised what an abusive person he was, and left his sorry ass, and am more happy and at peace than I ever thought I could be.

The dc love him, he can be a good Dad, just can't keep it up for long and sometimes it can seem relentless with children.

It's me they turn to when hungry/tired/upset/hurt. He is fun daddy when he wants to be, I am "caregiver"/counsellor iykwim.

I just don't want to write off a human being that I loved enough to marry and leave him to try and find his own way with the children, I'm trying to think of the effect on all of us. I'm an optimist (hence hoping for an epiphany moment for him) whereas he's a pessimist.

The reason this is coming to a crisis point is because the dc are noticing more and more the differences between the way their daddy treats their mummy and the way it is in other people's homes. I tell them it is not right that daddy is so grumpy, he shouldn't be, make excuses like job worries etc but am tackling this now before they are FUBAR as far as what constitutes normal family life.

I just don't want to write off a human being that I loved enough to marry

You do realise that as you are now in the realms of making excuses for him you are condoning his behaviour, don't you?

Stop trying trying to think of the effect on all of us and start thinking of the appalling effect he has already had, and will continue to have, on your dc until you accept that you made a gross error of judgement when you this married this man.

If you don't want to divorce him, at least tell him to leave and sort out his issues alone before you give any consideration to resuming your marriage.

"I so want to know what happened to the person I married, why did he change into being vile to me.

He's nice to his friends, why can't he be nice to me, He's supposed to love me!"

He's never likely been at all nice; its an image that he set out to protray. He would have acted the same regardless of whom he married.

His abusive mind does not work like that. I would argue that he actually hates women, you are but a possession to him to boss about and use to his own ends. Abuse like this too is insidious in its onset and difficult to spot but you've probably felt very uneasy about him for a long time.

What you married was a mirage; this "nice" man was never there to start with, yoou got taken in by an image of niceness. You perhaps met him as well at a lowish point in your life; such men love women who show emotional insecurity and vulnerability and use women to exploit as you have been. Makes them easier to control too.

I would stop all joint counselling as of now and seek counselling for your own self alone. You also need to read "Why does he do that?" written by Lundy Bancroft. Controlling men are often angry men too, it does not surprise me in the least that he has a temper.

I would also surmise that your H;s parents relationship is also controlling in nature; this was learnt by him from either one or both of his parents.

Its the children I feel sorry for in all this; currently you are both imparting them damaging lessons re relationships. Is this really the model you want for them in adulthood?.

And NO he is not a good dad if he is treating you, the mother of his children, like this. The good dad comment as well is often used by women precisely in your position who can also write NOTHING positive about their man.

The long term effects on your children IF you choose to remain within this marriage will only hit you when they are adults and start accusing you of putting him before them and telling you that they heard all the crap from their rooms. They could end up with a whole nhost of relationship problems themselves which stemmed from their childhoods. You as their mother could well end up being despised as well as their dad and if you tell them that you stayed because of them, they will call you a silly cow and wonder why the hell you did not leave him years earlier!!.

What do you get out of this relationship now?.

Please read a copy of the Lundy Bancroft book I wrote of earlier.

This is part of it:-
"Because of the distorted perceptions that the abuser has of rights and responsibilities in relationships, he considers himself to be the victim. Acts of self-defense on the part of the battered woman or the children, or efforts they make to stand up for their rights, he defines as aggression against him. He is often highly skilled at twisting his descriptions of events to create the convincing impression that he has been victimized. He thus accumulates grievances over the course of the relationship to the same extent that the victim does, which can lead professionals to decide that the members of the couple ?abuse each other? and that the relationship has been ?mutually hurtful?.?

"Few abusive men rely entirely on verbal abuse or intimidation to control their partners. Being a nonstop bully is too much work, and it makes the man look bad. If he is abusive all the time, his partner starts to recognize that she?s being abused, and the man may feel too guilty about his behavior. The abuser therefore tends to switch frequently to manipulating his partner to get what he wants. He may also sometimes use these tactics just to get her upset or confused. Your partner?s abusive incidents may follow no pattern, so you can never guess what will happen next?Random abuse can be particularly deleterious psychologically to you and to your children.?

What were your tasks OP? You are being a little vague about them...how does your task impinge on your own time and what was he supposed to do?

It's all such good important stuff you are saying in this thread - please try to take it to the the next session. Even it it is to be your last session at least it has been said.

As I said earlier, people with weak self-esteem and uncomfortable emotions often go on the attack to not feel their own struggle. If you guys split he may go through all of life blaming it on the "unreasonable nutter of an ex" and the fact he isn't CEO of Apple on having a wife who didn't knuckle down and act like his servant and secretary - you are going to have to learn to not care about what he thinks.

I think people are being too harsh on you in this thread in saying that you are causing your DCs damage - it's almost like a mirror on your relationship - you get all the blame for things when there are two people in your relationship. I think you have got very used to being blamed!

By the way - is he really lovely to and about his friends or does he also deal in put downs, albeit more subtle ones, about their lives?

No hard in checking your counsellor's qualifications and experience by the way. Good, experienced couples counsellors and family therapists are mostly expensive, but should save you money in the long run as acrimonious divorces cost more..

"The reason this is coming to a crisis point is because the dc are noticing more and more the differences between the way their daddy treats their mummy and the way it is in other people's homes. I tell them it is not right that daddy is so grumpy, he shouldn't be, make excuses like job worries etc but am tackling this now before they are FUBAR as far as what constitutes normal family life".

OP herself wrote the above re the children. I think she is right to be concerned about the effects all this is having on them. They are currently being imparted damaging lessons.

My guess as well is that he is very plausible to those in the outside world. It is behind closed doors that the mask slips. Hs could easily try and fool this counsellor they are seeing. He is to my mind following the controlling person's well worn script of behaviours.

I think I know what the acronym FUBAR means and that is not great for them either.

As someonecsaid to me : of course they love him . He will always be their dad. But they no doubt have the same conflicts as you as to why he can behave the way he does.

Couldn't reply last night.

Attila - Along the road to the point I am now at, I have indeed read the Lundy Bancroft book and another book recommended by a poster on MN about angry men.

H seems to look down on his mother but always wants to impress his father (ties in with the theory of woman hating I suppose). His father left his mother for another woman, His mother never remarried, apparently had a couple of relationships with men but never co-habited. There are many ishoos completely unaddressed in Hs background. I feel I've tried to help him along the way but he has sucked up everything I have to give emotionally and repeatedly pointed out my family's imperfections for good measure.

Eurostar, H does talk about his friends successes but also their failings with me. I believe seeks out imperfections and highlights those to make himself feel good.

his isshoos are his isshoos to address. (or not as he chooses).
my exP also ranted about my family's imperfections (in family therapy).

each of you need to focus on yourselves and what you want in life - ultimately you each responsible for yourselves. i think i also fell into revolving around his isshoos/his stresses/his MH etc - but when counsellor started saying but what about you? it changed something.

when his isshoos imapct on you/Dc negatively, and you have expressed this but he doesnt listen, then the only option is to establish a separate life.

"I believe seeks out imperfections and highlights those to make himself feel good".

I'd imagine you are spot on there - just like the criticisms of you. Everything you say points to him having a really weak sense of self. We have all met people like this haven't we? Possibly quite damaged by his Dad leaving him and leaving him with a sense he wasn't good enough to keep his Dad there which, as a survival strategy, he may have then transferred to his Mum not being good enough to keep Dad there - hence, falling easily into the pattern that it must be your fault that he isn't at the top of his career tree with children who do everything he says. Meanwhile - he may well be transferring this to your DC who may start to believe that Dad is grumpy at home compared to others' Dads because they are just not good enough rather than understanding its himself he cannot deal with.

When is your next session booked for?

Eurostar - Would rather not say, but not soon enough for me the way I feel at the moment......

I wish it wasn't so close to Christmas, if I bare my soul at the next session and it basically means the end of counselling then we are effectively splitting up and as he doesn't want that, he'll never move out. I have children and loads of pets to consider (he never ever feeds the pets so I can't leave them in his care). We're getting together with my family for Christmas, oh what a nightmare.

Maybe we can bluff our way through Christmas and split afterwards, I've had to jolly me and the kids along before when he grumped his way through the festivities. The kids are usually high on Christmas and my family can be good fun.

Must stop this therapeutic i/net posting and get back to work, can't afford to lose my job if I'm destined to be a single parent.