Why does he do this?! DH's bizarre lies when drunk.

[iasaom]

Hi, I'm reposting this on advice from someone from chat but a bit nervously as I see this section as for being for more 'serious' relationship problems. So I hope it is ok to post here.

DH tells very odd lies when he is drunk. He just makes stuff up constantly and lies to strangers and friends just the same. It's usually 'harmless' lies but still it seems very odd and bizarre to me.

For example at a family wedding he told someone (not anyone we knew), that his (mixed-race), neice was our daughter (we are both white).

He has lied about what his name is, what my name is, what country we are from, how he knows people (ie "oh I knew him at boarding school" when neither he nor the person he is talking about went to boarding school), he lies about what he does etc.

There is no consistency in what he says and often it doesn't make sense.

He seems confused about why he does it. When sober he is always overcome with embarrassment and remorse and often refuses to socialise with the people we were out with again! He also says he will stop drinking etc but doesn't. He drinks when he is nervous and he is nervous around people and when he drinks he lies so it's a vicious cycle.

I am guessing he does it for self-esteem reasons, to 'make himself seem interesting' but the lies just don't make sense in that context. They aren't aggrandising, they are just... odd and bizarre things to say. it is almost like he is wanting to be entertaining or please people but it's such a stupid and usustainable way to go about it!

We are moving areas in a few months and I really don't want to be trying to make new friends with him still doing this!

I will add that he has a history of self-aggrandising lies from when he was a teenager (he was mocked at school for lying but 'couldn't stop'), which was an attempt to distract from his miserable home life. He is mortified and really does lie awake at night beating himself up for lies he told when he was 15.

He is not eligable for any further counselling on the NHS but we might have more luck when we move.

I'd suggest therapy to deal with his childhood problems and giving up the booze

He's had therapy, and if he doesn't drink he doesn't go out socially at all. Once he's comfortable with people he doesn't lie.

He often says "I am never going to drink again" etc in remorse.

And he never does this when sober?
Has he tried Cognitive Behav. Therapy?

Yes he had CBT as a teenager, having not left the house for a year. We can't afford any more and he's had his NHS quota.

I can't think of a time he's lied while sober. It is only while drunk as far as I know. But I am not with him all the time of course so I can't be 100% sure. But when sober he is quite shy and guarded.

A different type of therapy might be more effective. He CAN surely go out and socialise without drinking. There are plenty of social activities that don't involve consuming alcohol and it's not impossible to go to ones that do without drinking. I understand the latter might be more difficult if he feels hee needs alcohol as a social crutch. It may be he needs to avoid such situations until he is able to get skilled help to deal with these.

Fundamentally, he has to accept that he has a problem, that not only is he causing great hurt to you but also putting you all at some potential rish by lying. He has to then recognise that he has to do something serious to address it. Continuing to carry on as he has always done isn't doing something about it.

He doesn't go out and socialise, he just doesn't. He dropped out of uni twice (different unis), because of the stress of being around people all the time. He hardly ever socialises and if he didn't drink he never would.

His lies don't really 'hurt' me. I wish he didn't do it because it is embarrassing for him afterwards (and for me), and it's counter-productive because we end up socialising even less as he's too ashamed to be around people once he's lied to them! Then he's even more nervous and drinks even more...

He has made great progress over many years with his issues but this is a big sticking point. I wish I could understand why he does it.

We can't afford more therapy.

Are there any charities nearby that might offer low cost counselling? Is he able to stay away from alcohol until there is the option of free counselling again? How serious is he about tackling this? Is he worrie or is it more that you are worried?

Another option might be AA if he acknowledges he has a problem with drinking. Again, he has to want to change enough for it to work. Best of luck. It must be several shades of awful for you.

Try to video him when he is like that. When he is sober, force him to watch him. Whilst feeling very embarrassed, get him to agree to therapy and make sure he sticks to it. Easy to say I know, but try it.

I suppose it's like actors who are shy: they need a mask to hide behind. He's telling stories to keep people at arm's length from the real him. Maybe.

Is he a chronic alcoholic? There is something you can develop which causes confabulation, but I think you have to have been a serious alcoholic for years and years (this is very second-hand and ill-remembered, based on an old friend's stepfather...but a doctor would know).

He only drinks when he's 'out'. He CAN go out without drinking (for lunch with friends, to the cinema, stuff like that), but if he's around people he doesn't know he usually drinks (it is usually in a pub, at a wedding, that sort of thing).

He is beside himself every time it happens. Beats himself up for days/weeks/months. Loses sleep. Avoids people, especially the people he's lied to so it becomes self-reinforcing. I have told him that if they saw him being 'normal' then his drunken lies would be forgotton but he can't, he gets too anxious.

Shmunty I can't video him every time he drinks! He's embarrassed as it is. He has had loads of therapy, we have run out of money/resources.

Annie that sounds about right. I can imagine it might be some kind of defense mechanism. LePrune he very rarely drinks, only when he's out. Last night was the first time in 6 months he's been out

It sounds like the lies DO hurt you, because you BOTH feel embarrassed after the fact. There's always the risk he'll say something that could cause problems related to work, your family, in the community, etc., no?

There are things you can do socially that don't involve drink or don't have to - night classes, special interest groups or social groups, walking groups, all sorts.

I used to be in a weekly pub quiz group where most members were teetotal and we had amazing fun, made friends and did lots of other social things together like meals, bowling, dances, family outings, loads.

Having previously had partners and friends who seemed incapable of going out without pretty heavy drinking, it was a revelation just how much real fun could be had without the embarrassment, the aggression, the tears, etc. that ofter came with the drinking. I know it's bucking the trend, not following what most people do to have a night out, but you don't have to lock yourself away if you don't drink.

Does he drive? If so, driving to things gives the perfect excuse for not drinking, and you don't have the faff of how to get home. I do wish you luck and hope he can find strategies for dealing with this until he can get skilled help.

His social anxiety means he will not/cannot socialise 'normally' as you describe KRITIQ. He's not 'locking himself away' unless he can drink. Drinking is the only way he feels able to cope with being out socially with people he doesn't know well. He wouldn't be able to cope with a night class or social group. He doesn't like socialising.

(well 'he doesn't like socialising' is a bit simplisitc but that's what it amounts to really).

Oh dear, poor soul. I'd like to give him a gentle hug and tell him it's all right, it doesn't matter, it's just words. Only he's your DH, so I'd better delegate it to you... and adding, you know, soppy things about love n stuff. (I expect you already do.)

I have zero tolerance for lying in the normal course of things, but your DH has been through a hell of a lot by the sound of things so one can hardly blame him.

Interesting thread, from phsychology poimt of view..I'm thinking, maybe he has a mild form of autism, as social life is a challenge for autistic people? I'm not an expert though, and from what i read before, an autistic person is unlikely to tell lies to please others, if anything they are not connecting with people. Or it's a social phobia based on low self-esteem (socially) - did you ask him, is he hyper sensitive to what are people thinking if him, and craving to be liked by them? or is he more annoyed with having people around because he just doesn't like people in their majority, and it's some form of agression almost (i.e. wants to get rid of people's company subconsciously)?

Annie yes he is a dear and he has fought a truly awful childhood to become a wonderful husband and father.

passions it is social anxiety - he was raised by a narc who told him that everyone was always watching and judging him and he is convinced (despite knowing logically it's not the case), that people notice him 'messing up' and think badly of him. He desperately wants to be liked and does have people who think very highly of him as he is a fantastic friend - once he's got past this awful patch when meeting new people or being around people he wants to impress (so is nervous, so drinks, so lies). I think he is motivated by wanting to be entertaining - the lies he tells are so obviously lies, you know - but it's just so odd to me, the way he does it.

OP this is certainly a very unique problem. You've had lots of good advice already but you seem to be ruling it out for different reasons.

If you can't afford any more counselling then - if your DH really wants to start tackling this - something else is going to have to give. Why can't he give up drinking? And start to try to learn coping strategies without it? I'm sure there are books on social anxiety disorder he can buy, and perhaps local support groups. Have you ever looked into this?

If he truly is reluctant to give up the drink because it's his crutch, then I'd be tempted to file this under 'drinking problem'. Which starts to become a whole other ball game.

I'm sympathetic to how crippling social anxiety can be, but your DH needs to start being proactive in dealing with it through whatever routes are available. Otherwise you'll be posting this same thread in a year's time, and nothing will have changed. Which will be such a shame for both of you.

So he can drink but you cannot afford £40 a week for counselling, surely you could make cut backs elsewhere.

Well if he is only drinking once every 6 months it's hardly the same cost as counselling.

What about drug therapy for the social anxiety? ADs help some people with it. Or beta blockers.

If therapy isn't an option at the moment, I would agree with Annie - tell him that it's not a big deal, it's just words. If he has low self-esteem it won't do him any good to beat himself up about some silly things he has said.

I understand that your situation is unique, but lots of people do and say very silly things when they have drunk too much. And lots of people feel absolutely awful about it when they sober up. Maybe in the short term the best remedy is loving reassurance that it doesn't really matter.

You say he does have friends who think very highly of him, so he must have a lot of good points. What do his friends think about his lies? Do they see it as a problem or do they not see that side of him?

Could it be that he's still dealing with anger issues that get exacerbated by alcohol: something like: inhibitions/self-control drop, questions about self potentially raise an angry or defensive response, and so he has to 'disengage'/somatise by resorting to fantasy - even if to an onlooker that fantasy wouldn't be any 'better' than reality, IYSWIM.
It sounds as if that's what he must have done as a child to cope with a bullying narc parent, and presumably ostracisation/humiliation by his peer group didn't help make reality a better place for him.
Do you think he retreats into fantasy quite a bit when sober but suppresses it better around other people? So if he could talk through it when he feels the need to fly off on a flight of fancy at other times, then maybe that would be helpful as it would help him and you understand what triggers the escapism tendency?

I completely agree with fabadafabada - varying degrees of silliness aren't that unusual. Perhaps the fact that he feels so bad about what he says actually turns the whole thing into a vicious circle.

i lie about my age all the time.

I can sympathise with your DH, I have suffered with social anxiety all my adult life, and have also told a lot of tall tales to try to start conversations/make myself more interesting/to feel included over the years. I also used alcohol (to excess) to try to get over that anxiety and unfortunately the relaxing, disinhibiting properties of alcohol can make the lying even more extreme.

I think trying to give up drinking, or drinking so much, in social situations will help with the disinhibited lying. I was very anxious about approaching social situations without a drink, but it does get easier, and if he is regretting and anxious about what he does/says when he is drunk, it may be better to try to face life without using booze as a prop.

You may want to have a look at the Brave Babes thread, this is an ongoing thread for posters who feel they have a problem with drink, he would be welcome to join the Babes if he wants some support in cutting down or stopping drinking and for coping with life without that prop. Brave Babes
If you want to PM me I will be happy to discuss further as well.