Is this ok or not?

[feelingpositivemum]

I have posted ages ago but would like to ask you for some advice as I'm very confused.

History is that I am divorced from controlling exH for 2 years and the DC's spend more than half their time with me and then the rest with exH. He is quite controlling with them but I try and give them perspective when they are with me to help them when with him if you see what I mean.

Anyway, older two DC's, 13 and 15 are becoming more able to put their foot down about things when they are with him and there was an incident last week when they fell out with him over something they felt they didn't want to do, he insisted and they continued to refuse and succeeded. I was upset about this as my DD1 kept texting me with updates as to how the evening was going! I was letting her know that she was right to tell him if she wasn't comfortable but not slating him at all (I try and am successful at not doing that) What upset me more was then DD1 and DS1 were told they musn't tell me what goes on in his house, 'what goes on between these 4 walls remains between these 4 walls'.

This has upset me as I feel it is so wrong but am I overreacting due to my history with him?

Please help me put this into perspective. I have told DD1 that she should always be able to talk to me, and it is wrong to be banned from telling me things, especially if they are upsetting. Interestingly, she didn't seem upset from the argument as she said she knew she was right. Oh to have that confidence.

What if he continues saying this and tells DD2 and DS2 not to tell me things. I would hate that they have to put up with his behaviour and keep it a secret. Or does he have a point?

I will be flitting in and out of post as DC's are here and loitering!

X posts Fliss. It isn't possible, and anyone who thinks it is has no idea what they are talking about.

If exHs were capable of talking through and showing united fronts they probably wouldn't be exes.

The best thing you can do as a parent in this situation is equip your children with a strong sense of self, and the ability to say no. Controlling manipulative people like this often use their children to undermine the other parent, and children must be equipped to deal with that. They can make their own choices about the situation as they get older, but they desperately need a voice of reason who is on their side.

I was just about to say that I could envisage a polite chat on the doorstep but he would not tell me, then if I asked him about it he would deny it, lie about it and say they have got it wrong and then he would remind them that he had said keep it quiet. Sadly, I would love to have a sensible discussion. I can't even bring myself to discuss it as I know he would lie.

I just have to empower them to deal with it, and let them know they have a voice. It's impossible to blend the two in some cases I think.

Absolutely. And why the Hell should anyone show 'united front' with a controlling bully?

My mother did that. I hate her for it.

Keep on doing what you are doing feeling positive. And I hope your DD is fully recovered from her illness.

What GAG and others said. It's all very well to negotiate with a reasonable human being who you happen to disagree with; quite another to back up an idiot in some dangerous flight of fancy just because he happens to be their father. As a responsible parent you have to protect your children from harm, regardless of who is doing it. If he wants to take them bungee jumping on a piece of string do you say "sure, go ahead, your father wants you to do it so of course you must"? I hope you wouldn't.

I feel a little bit uncomfortable with that you are saying here

Your children sound great, and strong and happy to see him...I get that

But you are too frightened to bring up some issues that are clearly bothering you, and your solution to that is to let them deal with it

I know what you mean about "giving them a voice", but they are children. Children that I expect are very conflicted about how they feel about their father. Of course they love him and want to please him...even the worst abusers have to do something very, very awful to kill that completely, especially during the formative years

I would advise you to find a way to take more control yourself, or at least give the outside appearance of at least attempting to Your children need to witness that, I am afraid

I hope you don't feel I am attacking you. It's just that my childhood was a little bit like this. My mother didn't always protect me. She thought I was strong enough to stand up for myself because I answered back/sometimes refused to engage with my father.

I wasn't.

And when I look back, I despise her for her perceived weakness.

I am really sorry to say this, I know it must have taken a huge amount of strength to extricate yourself from him. But you haven't finished yet. It's never finished until your children are adults. That is one of the very many unfair aspects of having had children with an abuser.

I think you should do more to protect your children.

Gettingagrip My post is my opinion and I don't have to lay out any relevant life experience on an internet board to justify putting my opinion forward - no matter how many exclamation marks you put on the end of your sentences.

The OP will read the posts and hone in on things she can relate to and if mine are of no use then that is fine but I am only trying to give her some support not get into some kind of argument with other posters about who is right and wrong. None of us know the extent of the reality for the OP. And as for having a conversation with your EXH he will have to get in line behind my EXH.

I hope OP you didn't feel my posts were attacking or criticising you because that was not my intention.

Sorry but why should you present a united front when their father is behaving like such a controlling bully? There is another thread in Relationships at the moment where thank fucking goodness the OP is categorically NOT presenting a united front with her 'D'H.

And HOW DARE he say that they have to keep secrets from you. That is what abusers say and that is why abusers get to carry on for so long. Your DD and DS sound amazing but I'm afraid I agree with AF, they do need you to step in and at the very least, tell him in explicit terms that he must never, ever tell them to keep secrets from you again, that you are going to log this incident and you will have no hesitation in presenting this in court if necessary.

The problem, Soiree, with giving 'support' to someone who is in a abusive situation by telling them they have to negotiate more, or even at all, with the abuser, is that the victim then puts more pressure onto themselves to change their behaviour to try to appease the bully.

And as anyone with half a brain knows, one can never appease a bully as they just continue to move the goalposts.

When children's health and welfare is at stake, it is imperative to give support to the other parent as they try to help their children.

Are you a name-changer Soiree? Your 'advice' reminds me of another poster.

Oh and just for you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for all your replies, I think the ones that say I need to do more to protect the DCs are hitting home the most as I come to realise that I must. Its just how to go about it that I need to decide.

He gives the impression of being the most fabulous father to everyone yet I know he can be so damaging. Thanks for your frankness, and noone has upset me, I guess I was asking for the advice I knew I needed really.

And thanks for helping me clarify in my head that a united front is not the approach to take. I couldn't get it clear in my head how to do both, and now I think you can't, its impossible.

Thankyou x

Have you ever had the Freedom Programme recommended to you. I believe it can be very helpful in developing strategies in dealing with this kind of man. Ways to detach. Ways to keep control of your own life.

It certainly comes highly recommended on the Emotional Abuse Support Thread. Have to read that, btw ?

you

I think that giving them the skills to deal with their father is a good way forward. There are resources for children...I think WA, Nspcc, parentline, or whatever it's called now, and they can ring childline. They are used to talking after family therapy, so it may be a good idea to continue to encourage that now.

Two good things there...they get support that does not conflict either parent, and they get used to accessing help for themselves, which we ALL need from time to time.

You would not be seen as The Baddy, which controllers are adept at labelling people as, the dc's learn their own ways of dealing with him. So enabling that, suggesting it, making sure the numbers are in their phones etc, seems a good solution.

I have recently separated from an abuser, and my 7 year ols has called childline on a number of occasions, this has been heartily approved of by my AMAZING nurse practitioner, and IDVA, social worker etc etc.

One of the links on the EA thread is called "dealing with your angries" which we have also found very helpful....for general bullying as well as narcissistic fathers.

I completely get that you either make ana bsolute mountain out of this or nothing, as doign a little will do more harm than good. Can you gradually decrease visit time? Perhaps arrange activities so even when he's got them he hasn't get them?

Keep openness between eachother and you. Perhaps have a really relaxing evening the night they get home, try and include some very very quiet time where they have time to bring stuff up. Also enlist other people that they can confide in, like counsellors.

Personally I think I would try and exclude him from their lives altogether, but this sounds very very hard.

The currency of the dysfunctional, is secrets and lies and general two faced shadiness. Keeping everything out in the open in an honest and respectful way is crucial...and your ex won't like it....but everyone else will, and your dc's will benefit from a policy of lightness and respectful openness.

gettingagrip I believe my post was centred around removing the children from between OP and her EXH. Not about appeasing him or negotiating with him. There will always be that relationship there so somehow it has to get to a level where she can manage it. THAT is in the best interests of the children if he is an abusive ex partner. I also said that if the children's welfare was at risk then unsupervised access should be reconsidered.

Just because you come in all guns blazing throwing around some knowledge of abusive relationships and your hysterical exclamation marks does not necessitate you being sarcastic towards me or mock what I have written.

I have been physically, sexually and emotionally abused from the age of 5 years old and only last year managed to get myself out of one particular person's control. It is different for everyone and I for one would NEVER presume to understand the full impact of how this affects somebody's life because every situation is different. I don't justify every post with my personal experience because it is not necessary and it is private to me. If I do it is because I feel the OP would benefit in some way from the example. For me the abuse I have suffered at the hands of two people has had a huge effect on myself all of my life and my family since I got married and you have offended me with your sweeping generalisations about how little I must know of life by based on two posts you have read on here.

And in answer to your question I was previously FruitySunshine until a year ago I believe and before that had been a member for over year if I recall correctly.

OP, my ex is similar. He has been telling my 6 year old DD to keep secrets from me and that if she tells me he has been passing on gifts from my estranged mother, she will be responsible for making me sad. I am very glad that she feels she can tell me but I wouldn't tackle him directly as then he would know he's getting a reaction and do it more. People like this are not reasonable.

I strongly believe that we have to protect our children from these manipulative and abusive people and you are not over-reacting. I would take more extreme steps myself, especially as the contact is not court ordered (nor is mine).

However what concerns me more is that you are still so scared of him. IMHO the best thing you can do for all of you is to resolve that. Have you read the Lundy Bancroft book that is often recommended on here?

sparklesoiree sorry you have been abused. I hope you are getting the support you need.

I think your comments though, were unfair.

Children need to know that controlling and abusive bullies are wrong, and that normal people and relationships, just don't work that way.

Thank you, I am reading your posts and digesting them.

I have read the Lundy book, in fact that is what instigated me leaving. I realised that he wouldn't ever change and I was amazed at how all of a sudden it wasn't all my fault.

I am scared of conflict with him. We play this silly game of we all get on great, in front of everyone. The DC are desperate for us not to row so we chat and banter and get on well. Which is in complete conflict with how terrible our marriage was. If I look back I should absolutely hate him. So, I probably need something like the freedom programme. I will look into it. I have very poor boundaries and it takes me ages to react and follow my instincts.

I am struggling with this as it is causing me to reflect on what a lie we are all living and what a mess it all is really. I am grateful for your input and I will take it away and think. x

I did the Freedom Programme, and it's worth doing. But I found that looking at why I had poor boundaries to begin with, was more useful. I had a course of inner child therapy on the NHS, which I can honestly say, has completely changed my life. It's where you "reboot" and re parent yourself.

John Bradshaw's "homecoming", is a great book for this, but actually doing the therapy with someone qualified and experienced, was the thing that really did it for me.