feel betrayed after what I've just seen about 'd'p on facebook

[abbeylockhart]

Not an affair but feels like a similar betrayal.

Background:
2 years ago I had a big falling out with DP's DB. DB was so overwhelmingly in the wrong that even his DP and DM sided with me. I gave DP a him or me ultimatum and he chose me.
His name has never been mentioned again (in my presence at least) by DP or DMIL (who I get on with v well). tbh I never expected DP to never see DB again but the subject never came up. A few months later I did find some stuff of ours that was at DB's and that he had obviously got back from him but nothing was ever said. DMIL said recently that she hadn't seen DB's DCs since 'the incident', which I was surprised at but didn't comment on.

Today:
A cousin of theirs has put up on facebook (yes I know, facebook is the root of all evil) that it was nice to meet up with DP and BIL. This was presumably when I was away over the weekend.

AIBU to feel betrayed? How can I trust DP when he has gone behind my back like this? FWIW I'm not banning him from ever seeing BIL again but it's the lying that has hurt me. If he has hidden this from me (he said he was working) what else is he hiding? If he is in contact with BIL then why hasnt he asked/demanded an apology on my behalf?

I'm seething at this. Cant even look at DP. He knows something's up but I dont want to open this big can of worms.

Help!

The thing is, how can people understand? You won't say why this happened or even an outline, you say you gave him an ultimatum, then it wasn't.

Which is it? How is he supposed to know? If you said "him or me" with half of the determination and aggression you are using here, then no doubt you meant business.

You can't just start chucking around ultimatums like that to people and expecting them to not think you are serious?

When people try to clarify the picture to maybe UNDERSTAND a bit more. You get all snippty and arsy, because people dare say, you are the one so far, seemingly in the wrong. For throwing around ultimatums.
For people to understand you, they need to understand why you did it.

I don't think you realise that you aren't coming across very well at all. Life partners or not. Together a few years or not. It makes not one iota of difference you not being married. It's NEVER a good idea to start issuing ultimatums and trying to come between blood relatives.

Yes he should put you first as his main family, but judging by your attitude, nothing the DB did would have ever been good enough and you were expecting him to cut contact. You back track now and say you weren't. But you told him, him or me. So no wonder he hid it from you.

There will always be an mn'er telling you to leave him, or saying give him an ultimatum. Does not mean they are right.

You know some people in families are shits and do some awful things and say some awful things. If he really upset you, then he did. But as you are finding ultimatums tend to backfire. Maybe he felt it was time to see his family again, that time was always gonna come. Maybe you need to look at why, honestly he couldn't actually tell you.

You do seem very dramatic.

the thing is you have made it clear you never want to hear his name mentioned/discuss the matter, so OH decides that ok he will stick to your rules and do what he thinks is best without worrying/annoying you

if it wasnt for blabbermouth cousin, you would have been none the wiser and everyone would be happy

When i first told the story on here mners were telling me to leave dp there and then for not defending me.

sorry but thats the default answer on here
if you are daft enough to listen to a group of strangers on the internet, then you are pretty daft

one rouge member of their birth family

so he is a pinko eh - hmmmmm

OP, did he assault you?

If so, then yes, your DH is a spineless dickhead.

I had a massive falling out with a friend once, and I wanted to never see him again, and the MN consensus at the time was to cut him out of my life, he wasn't a friend, etc. etc.,

The tihng is, he was also a really good friend of my DP, and while DP completely understood why I was upset and was very cross with my friend for what he did, he didn't want to loose his friend just because I fell out with him. At first I was hurt, the emotional part of me wanted to tell DP he couldn't ever see the friend again and that if he loved me he would cut the firend out, but the rational side of me knew that this friend had done nothing wrong to DP and I had no right to dictate to him who his friend were.

Anyway, loing story short, for the sake of my DP, I met up with the friend and we discussed everything, he appologised, I appologised, we had a good cry about it all, and now I am friends with him again (it took two years to get to that point), and I only did it for the sake of DP and not wanting him to have to feel bad about seeing the friend because he knew I would be upset, make social situations difficult, etc etc and actually, I am glad I put it all behind me and we sorted everything out, because now I can happily call him a friend again.

I'm not saying you need to make up with your BIL, but you might need to put it behind you for the sake of your DP, if you love him you won't want him to suffer by not seeing his brother or feeling too scared to talk to you or tell you the truth.

You brought the lieing on yourself, he didn't tell you because he didn't want to upset you. It was wrong of him but you need to be more understanding and talk to him without getting cross, appologise for putting him in that situation, say you understand he wants to see his brother and he needen't hide it from you because you will not make him feel guilty about seeing his brother. You will then be a better stronger person for having done that, your DP will respect you more, and you will have less stress and upset in your life.

Oh come on you have to tell us what it is.

If he got drunk and called you a twat - bad but forgiveable

If he sexually assaulted you - very very bad and unforgiveable

To fair to you, I do not go along with trite and meaningless responses such as 'blood is thicker than water' - our families can hurt us deeply and sometimes you have to cut them out of your life to be healthy.

But if you want help, tell people more and let us understand.

Do you even know if it was an arranged meeting. May DP was invited to the cousins and turned up to find several family members there including DB. What would you have expected him to do if that was the case, turn on his heel and walk out on all the family members?

Maybe he has asked DB for an apology and he has said no. Or maybe he doesn't want to ask DB for an apology because he knows DB will say no. Or maybe it was a family event and he didn't want to have things kick off by asking DB to apologise.

You really need to talk not shout at your DP and find out the full story.

I would have been extremely hurt.

Maybe he met up with them at different times? "Good to see DP (at the cafe) and BIL (later at the pub)."

We can't possibly give an informed opinion without knowing how serious the incident was. All you have to do is tell is whether BIL assaulted you in any way. If he did, then you have every right to feel betrayed. If he didn't, you do not. That's the long and the short of it really.

AbbyAbsinthe that's a bit of a sweeping statement - assualt is not the only unforgiveable 'crime'.

OP, without knowing the circumstances (which I think are actually irrelevant and some people are just having a nose - the point is you and DP had agreed on no contact with his DB), I think YANBU. I also would be very hurt if I found out DP had lied to me about anything, let alone a major issue that was serious enough for their mother to cut contact.

He should have discussed resuming contact with you first. I do think though, that if he did you would have to accept him wanting to have a relationship with his DB.

They didn't "agree" on no contact. She FORCED him to chose between them. That's not an agreement, it's an ultimatum.

They always backfire. So her circumstances are relevant. Reasonable, people do not go around telling their oh's that they must cut family members out of their lives or else.

So if he assaulted her, the kids, left drugs around for the kids to find, etc, etc. Then people may understand her better.

But family arguments? They happen all the time, and it's a big thing to tell you OH, you have to cut ties with such a close family member. Sometimes you have to be the bigger person.............No one has the right to try and enforce you cutting out family. So we don't know how balanced op would be towards her oh do we? Maybe you know he was scared to actually ask if he could have "permission" to see his db again. I wouldn't be surprised.

So without knowing the full story, op herself could be the one to blame here, shocking prospect I know .

OP I don't need to know what happened, your pain shines through loud and clear I have been in a sort of similar position and chose to have nothing to do with any of my family for betraying my trust. It was related to my dh. Time did heal things somewhat, although I think you'd be a fool to forget (and allow for repeats) but I had to discuss with my dh that he was comfortable with me letting my family close again. I would never have gone behind his back.

It's a double blow as fas as I can see. Your dh's lack of action the first time, and now sneaking around rather than have a difficult discussion brought on by his brother's behaviour. Brother gets off and you are in agony. Not on.

overmydeadbody I cannot agree with you that op brought the lying on herself. The op didn't ask for any of this to happen, it's clear the db is the cause of the trouble. Whatever she did or didn't discuss with her dp, she isn't responsible for his lying to her.

bubble I find your post weird - you seem to assume the worst of OP with barely any facts. She has said several times that 'ultimatum' was the wrong word to use and that it wasn't an ultimatum, more a 'whose side are you on?'

Bearing in mind she has said that her BIL's own mother feels so strongly that he was wrong that she has also cut contact, I think it is fair to assume it was a major issue and she is not alone in thinking so.

The point is, it doesn't matter, because what she is hurt about is that DP lied to her, and I don't find that acceptable either. Being 'scared' to ask her for permission doesn't wash with me - they are both adults and should have an adult conversation about it.

Yes adult convo, but the she said to him "him or me" it was an ultimatum. She said so. Op then started to backtrack when people questioned the reason behind the ultimatum. Saying it probably wasn't her best move.

She then gets aggressive. So yeah, I think she is saying what people want to hear. People can't possibly comment. It does sound like without info, if she is being totally out of order and backtracking to suit.

I'll say it again. The 'him or me' I said was in relation to 'whose side are you in re: this particular incident. I never said/expected him to cut BIL out of his life. His name was just never mentioned again.

I DONT CARE that he saw BIL (actually I can see an upside cos he owes us £10k+), but he LIED to me. He sneaked off behind my back, said he was working but then went on a night out just with BIL (not a family gathering).

If he's doing this what's to say he's not having an affair, running up huge debts etc, a multitude of things which he could be lying to me about. I dont know now. I obviously cant trust him.

FWIW I am now speaking to him again, but only for the sake of the kids/family unity. As far as I am concerned, and this comes at the end of a long list of reasons why I should have left him years ago, I am now single.

abbeylockhart Is it possible to link to the old thread with the background/incident on it - it is really hard to be helpful/understanding about why this is causing you so much grief without knowing how awful BIL is and why you feel it is such a betrayal?

I'm sorry to hear that Abbey I agree that I would be extremely hurt if my DP lied to me under any circumstances but I think talking this through with your DP and explaining why you're so hurt would be worth trying if you want to salvage the relationship.

oh dear - you sound very melodramatic abbey ..." As far as I am concerned, and this comes at the end of a long list of reasons why I should have left him years ago, I am now single."

SO this is just the straw that broke the camels back then?

I think you are looking for us to agree with you, because you have made up your mind and you are looking for stranger justification. This is just an excuse for larger grumbles about your DP.

Issuing an ultimatum to your DP never to see your BIL again may or may not have been the right thing to do - but unless the crime was violent and/or sexual in nature, then maybe BIL has the right to see his brother. Seeing him does not make them bosom buddies, it does not mean that your DP has chosen DB over you. They are kin, and as such, they will have a bond that is different from your bond with DP. You were wrong to issue the ultimatum, because if the crime was so bad, and so unforgivable, then your DP would have cut his brother out of his life without ultimatums from you.

He hasn't lied. You haven't asked him if he has seen his brother and he has said no when he has. He just hasn't told you. Let it go. You are lucky to have a family. Treasure it.

You are now single?

So you have split up over this?

I am sorry to hear that.

I understand what you are annoyed about. I would be too. Lying to someone is horrible. I can't stand to be lied to. Tell me anything, no matter how much it annoys or hurts - but don't lie to me or try to deceive me.

I understand that that is what is hurting you.

I was going to post the same as Hattie word for word then. You always wanted to break up didn't you? You just wanted people to tell you to leave him. As it was the last straw for you.