Need some advice to cure me of my narcissistic rage traits, sadness at living overseas and unhappiness with P

[readytochange]

Have name changed for this. (apologies vv long)

Just a quick summary about me, am 41, have a gorgeous 1 year old DS and live abroad with DP, with whom i have always had a precarious relationship.

I have a raft of issues i would like to work on, but the central one would be to sort out my own anger and frustration issues, as i believe that i can't expect change to happen around me without attempting to change myself first.

From things i have picked up on MN and then reading associated links, i think i have some Narcissistic Personality disorder traits. Was talking to my dad the other night and asking why my DB & DSis don't really talk to me and i said "do they hate me?" DF said "no they don't, they just feel uncomfortable being around you as they don't know when you are going to explode".
"Also, you tend to go on and on until you get the answer you want and don't let things drop".

My DSis, who i last spoke to in person about 6 months ago has issues with the way i treat my mum; ie speak to her. Problem is, my relationship with DM is the crux of how i behave now. DM also had some narcissistic traits whilst we were growing up, was pretty controlling and being the eldest i was beaten quite a lot and recognise now that it was out of proportion to what i had done and just her own frustrations about whatever. (I first remember being hit when i was 3, although my mother has no recollection of it.)

anyway, i have moved beyond being angry at my mum for beating me, i just try and keep her at a bit of a distance as much as possible.

Biggest issue is that when i get frustrated i tend to take it all out on DP. On occasion, at the beginning i used to hit DP when i was frustrated and that it was his fault and in my twisted logic, i thought it was ok for women to hit men (obviously now i know that hitting full stop is not acceptable).

A couple of years later DP hit me back. He later justified it by saying that he had decided that the next time i hit him he was going to retaliate as he felt that it was the only way to stop me. I think in the 4 years we have been together i have hit him about 5 times, usually though with some sort of provocation. I don't even think about it and this red mist comes over me and i have whacked DP before i have even thought about it.

DP and my relationship is so damaged that looking at it objectively it is insane that we are still together. DP often says, if you hate me so much and you hate living in X country, why don't you go? But now that we have DS, it just seems so much more complicated. I first stayed because of pride (ie didn't want to admit that i had made a mistake) as i had left everything and moved overseas to be with DP, then things sort of muddled along. if i am honest i stayed because the old biological clock was ticking.

now i just want to stick it out for a bit because living here means that i get to be with DS full time and we have just bought a house which is being renovated so i am finacially committed, all my savings went on the purchase; bought 50:50. Currently we are living in DP's old holiday home which is fine but v. small.

I had never lived with anyone before DP and had a string of unsuitable relationships or none at all, i feel due to both low self-esteem and bouts of narcissm which put potentially decent men off. The wierd thing is, most people find me to be quite likeable if i don't know them well, but because i am currently so geographically isolated from friends and family, DP is the one person i speak to the most and a lot of our conversations are so negative and picky at each other. (at the moment he is sleeping on the sofa for the 3rd night - his choice as we had an argument about taking out the rubbish 3 days ago and i said i hate you, i want to leave you and X country. Story was i was putting rubbish bag in the boot of his car - we are rural so you have to drop it off. he came running from the garage with his arm raised as if to hit me; he said that he did it just to frighten me not to put it in the boot - he was feeling picky about his car that day, i know it was cos of other stuff, not to do with me. i was holding DS at the time. so then i followed him to the garage, raised my hand to him to "frighten him" due to his over reaction. he flinched and lost his balance - he was already crouching down looking for something and i pulled his hair as i was so cross that he felt it was ok to threaten me. my behaviour was not appropriate i know, but i didn't think , just reacted - hence narcissistic rage

I can't say that i wish i had never met him, because i wouldn't have my beautiful baby boy. DP is helpful in some ways and hardworking, but quite old fashioned in that the man is the provider and the woman should toe the line a bit. I think a lot of our issues are due to that, being abroad and me not having dealt with my anger issues.

I don't see our relationship lasting, if i'm honest, but in the meantime, i would like to work on making me less likely to have outbursts so that i can make life a bit more pleasant till i figure out what to do next, hence initial title about help with narcisstic rages

I'm not convinced you are narcissistic OP. I think you are angry, bitter and frustrated by something - your childhood perhaps? And this has led to you being violent. I am
Not going to flame you for hitting your DP - hopefully you do know that it is not acceptable. Ever. Your relationship sounds very unhealthy and in all honesty, I don't believe it's salvageable. For everyone's sake I would get yourself into some kind of therapy and take a break (at the very least) from your relationship. Your reasons for staying just don't add up.

i have moved beyond being angry at my mum for beating me

I suspect that emotionally you haven't moved very far from the physical abuse you suffered at your mother's hands during your childhood.

You mention that your earliest recollection of being beaten was when you were 3 yrs old. Unless they are particularly sensitive little souls, the natural reaction of a 3 year old at being hit by one of their peer group is to hit their assailant back.

At 3yrs old you were powerless to retaliate against your mother and you had no option but to internalise your rage against the woman who, above all others, should have protected you from abuse but chose to inflict it on you.

As the eldest child, and as the most frequent victim of your mother's violence, it's not surprising that your relationship with your siblings is conflicted. Nor is it surprising that your relationships with others have been fraught.

I could continue to write the equivalent of a thesis exploring the ways in which your childhood experiences have adversely affected your adult relationships but, essentially, it comes down to you expressing your anger in a not dissimilar manner to the way in which your mother vented hers, which is unsurprising given that you learned it at her feet - or, more specifically, her hands.

Many grown women experience, momentarily or longer, the feeling of 'becoming their mothers' and n your case this is a particularly apt analogy.

At the present time you are no doubt still ensconced in the rosy glow of new motherhood. However, unless you take steps to resolve your anger, it is likely that you will at some point physically abuse your dc.

Before you dismiss the above statement, I suggest you read your OP and would draw your attention to the fact that you had no compunction about holding your ds in your arms while raising one of your hands in a threatening manner to his father and, when he lost his balance, pulling his hair while he lay on the ground. Sadly, you have already allowed your ds to witness your violent behaviour and I urge you not to let this be the thin end of the wedge.

You have alighted on other reasons - being abroad, your dp having 'old-fashioned' values, etc, - to explain your unacceptable behaviour but I would put it to you that these are little more than red herrings which detract from the fact you have failed to learn the art of self-control - please note that in saying this, I am not apportioning blame.

It would be pointless for you to verbally remonstrate with your mother at this late date, but you may find it a useful exercise to put pen to paper, or fingers to keyboard, and pour out the way you feel about her and the way she treated you in your childhood. Once you have committed your thoughts to paper, choose a clear night a couple of days before a new moon and ceremonially burn the paper(s) in a candle flame or small bonfire as a way of releasing and letting go of some of your negative emotions.

As you are not in the UK, I assume that counselling may be expensive or not readily accessible to you. If this is the case, I would suggest that you visit youtube and search Brad Yates EFT.

Brad Yates has produced a number of Emotional Freedom Technique videos that are freely available on youtube. The videos last a matter of minutes and all you have to do is copy Brad's actions while repeating his words.

I would suggest you start with the videos that are aimed at releasing anger and negative thinking. As with any therapy, you need to be willing to open your mind to the possibility of change and to practise the exercises every day - either once or as many times as you wish.

As for the qualities of self control and self-discipline that are almost derided in this self-indulgent age, they should not be underestimated and you are best advised to keep a close eye out for your flashpoints and take steps to immediately remove yourself from the room/situation until you have regained control of yourself.

To this end, you may find it helpful to keep a cushion or other large soft object for kicking the shit out of, or a large piece of rag that you can 'strangle'. Worry beads can be used to calm the mind and relieve inner tension. Exercise will release endorphins which will put you in a more positive frame of mind.

Meditation can put your conscious mind in touch with the 'inner you' that remains unharmed and intact despite whatever unenhancing and joyless experiences that the 'outer you' has undergone.

Once you have mastered the art of controlling your anger and your negative responses to daily occurences, you will find that your current meagre store of self-esteem will increase.

Anger is an energy that can be utilised to bring about positive changes to our lives and to the lives of those around us. Please don't allow your anger to consign you and your loved ones to the soul-destroying realms of negative and destructive abuse.

Totally awesome post, Izzywhizzy, I will check out Brad Yates myself, I'm interested in EFT.

Narcissism is bandied around a lot on MN but from what you have said that doesn't fit the bill where you are concerned. However your experiences as a child means that your default position is to lash out. For your sake and that of your dc please think about getting support and help to change your way of behaving - it won't be an easy path but will help you to manage your feelings in a better way and exorcise the ghost of your mother's behaviour towards you.

thank you very much for the thoughtful posts. I have no excuse for my behaviour as an adult and my biggest fear is hitting DS. (I have never ever felt the urge and manage to seperate my younger, frustrated self who flates up) and be a thoughtful mother to him.
However, izzy, your post was spot on and i appreciate the time you took to explain everything so clearly. I should not be exposing DS to violence in any shape or form. i will use the practical techniques you have outlined. I have done journalling in the past and burnt it and found it very helpful. I will however get the big cushions and worry beads.
I have had therapy in the past and have been reommended books such as PAul Hauck's Calm Down.
Especially important is the issue of self-control, I really have very little.
I am so desperate to change and this thread has helped immensely. thank you

ready I'm really impressed at your willingness to work on this and wish you the very best of luck. You've had great advice on how to work on the self-control and anger issues.

I know you say you feel your relationship is at its end - would you consider sitting down with your DP, apologising to him and explaining to him what you've said on this thread? Even if not to save your relationship, at least to improve it to the extent that you have a child and will need to communicate in future, whether or not you and your DP stay together.

Just from my own experience, when dealing with my mother I get so angry at her irrationality and narc behaviour (nowhere near as bad as your mother though!) I am unable to see my reactions from the outside - DH acts almost as a canary in the coal mine and now we have an agreed signal where he lets me know that I am rising to the bait and beginning to overreact. This has led to massive improvement in both my relationship with my mother and with DH.

We had to have a serious talk first though about why I was reacting the way I was and reassure him that he was not the problem and could be part of the solution. I also had to apologise to him for taking out my frustration with my mother on him - there was no excuse for me doing that, and he obviously couldn't see that it wasn't his fault until I told him. And I had to take a big leap of faith to trust that every time he gives me the signal to back off, he wasn't trying to wind me up or pick a fight.

izzy, can I just say what an amazing post.

OP, it really does sound like you are ready to change. Good luck.

I don't think you sound abnormally narcissistic, either. Look at it this way - if you had a cluster B personality disorder, you wouldn't be doing all this to try and change, would you? You'd be sure you're right and trying to make everybody else change to suit you. What I think you have are 'fleas' - learned behaviour patterns; the inevitable result of being formed by dysfunctional parents. When Mummy expresses anger by beating you, you learn both that violence is normal in the family context and that it's part of your role to suffer it. As an adult woman, your patterns of thinking & feeling are formed by the dual expectations of being hit and hitting in anger.

Izzy's post is great. I'm not as big a fan of EFT but it serves a useful purpose.
Additionally, I'd like to stress that self control is not about controlling your feelings. I dislike the term intensely. People who 'need' to learn self-control are those who feel their life is out of control. The paradoxical cure is to give up controlling it. When we talk about controlling anger, this is not suppressing anger but expressing it more usefully.

Another respondent here on the verge of writing an essay! I'll be interested to see whether any of this clicks with you so will shut up after making one more contribution: You may have dealt with your anger at your mother, but perhaps not so much with your justifiable grief and despair at having been robbed of the nurturing childhood you deserved. This, in itself, is a perfectly good reason to feel angry. The way forward is self-parenting, which is a bit of a demanding process but a damn sight better than grieving all your days.

Take care of your self, now.

garlic that is a very good explanation of self-control. Thank you.
OP you dont sound narcissistic to me, for the reasns Garlic states.

I just wanted to say thank you for the incredible support on this thread it was unexpected, given my behaviour but very much appreciated.

Just briefly, i have watched and followed this link of brad yates on on youtube

It was truly amazing, I was sobbing within seconds, but it was so cathartic as it has been a long time since i have felt such kindness and gentleness towards me.

DS is asleep and I am trying to make a nice dinner for DP. We had a family hug this morning. (he said he was sleeping on the sofa as he didn't want to get in my way and avoid arguments.)

I definitely feel some weight has lifted.
I have to go now, but I will let you all know how i get on with the other techniques.

Garlic, interesting post from you too.

OP, I have felt iin the past that my DH was verging on narcissistic but I have come to realise (and reading these posts is helping my understanding) that a lot of his behaviour is caused by the bullying he received as a child (he has a port wine birthmark on his face) and the subsequent feeling of being abandoned by the "got to get on with it, stiff upper lip" treatment he got from his well meaning but fairly clueless parents. He developed coping mechanisms that weren't very pleasant. He too has had a very poor relationship with his sister.

He has recently gone through a realisation that things have got to change (he hit a crisis point in his relationship with his parents and sister) and he has been having therapy. It has helped enourmously and our relationship has improved immesely. I can even contemplate a weekend away on our own without dread as in the past we would have argued for most of it.

Oh my,

The penny is dropping for me too...

Thanks all, I will watch with interest.

Op good luck, it sounds as though you have done the hardest bit, admitting there is a problem.

I'm pleased to know that your first experience of EFT felt positive for you and hope that you will continue to use the technique every day because, where an experience has been cathartic, it's tempting to think 'great, solved, sorted' only to find that 'o no, it's not' a few hours/days or so down the line.

However, understanding where your ever-ready wellspring of anger has originated and being able to find ways of releasing it without causing harm to others is merely one part of your inner personal transformation, albeit that it is one which I chose to give priority in my earlier response because of the risk to your dc if you hand the physical abuse that you endured as a child down to the next generation.

Your understandable anger at the way you were treated in your childhood is justified but, unfortunately, you have held on to it to the extent that it has become the only way that you are fully able to express your outrage at what was done to you in the past by unleashing it when you perceive that others are doing you wrong in the present.

For some, such anger can be constructive. It can drive them on to succeed, to achieve, to 'show them they shouldn't have done that to me', that 'they were wrong about me', etc.

Conversely, this type of anger has many chasing their tails in endless frustration thus negating any chance they have of achieving or becoming the person they want to be.

Anger is a powerful energy; if we live our lives in a dull grey haze of general unhappiness and misery, the sudden shock of anger coursing through our blood and temporarily re-energising our bodies can remind us that we can still 'feel' intense emotion, but any 'feel good' factor is short-lived especially if 'going into one' has resulted in our causing harm to others.

You may have used your anger to define you, to validate yourself, to justify yourself, but now it's time for you release your grip and let go of your historic anger so that you can find ways to become the loving, nurturing, caring woman and parent that you so desperately want to be.

Regardless of what words your mother may have used when she was beating you, the messages that you received were that you were 'not good enough', you were 'worthless', you were 'of no account', you were 'valueless', you were 'unloveable'.

You perceived that your siblings were treated differently to you. As the eldest, you bore the brunt of your mother's rages and if you believed that your siblings were treated better than you this, in itself, would have compounded your feelings of 'not being good enough'.

Again, I suggest that you view other Brad Yates videos such as Clearing Guilt and Shame, Clearing Resentment, and in particular his video 'You Are Worthy' because, despite what you may currently believe to the contrary, YOU ARE WORTHY, YOU ARE GOOD ENOUGH, YOU ARE LOVEABLE and, although you may feel a sense of shame when thinking of some of the things you may have done in anger, THERE IS NO SHAME IN BEING YOU.

FTR, I've recommended EFT to you because of the powerful affirmations especially contained in Brad Yates' videos. In addition, Brad's manner is appealing - he comes across as kind, thoughtful, and caring; the type of guy I'd be happy to chew the fat with over a coffee or ten. Although, ever the cynic realist, I'd like to know what his demons are - and please don't ever be fooled by cool, calm, and collected exteriors because we all have some, and sometimes a lot, of those fork-tailed imps on our tails.

As for self-control and self-discipline, they do what they say on the tin. Being able to control ourselves - control our impulses and responses when interacting with our environment and with others - sets us apart from the animal kingdom.

Exercising self-control is a skill we teach our children; exercising self-discipline is the modus operandi we use to maintain the roofs over our heads.

Unless we are afflicted by serious mental illness, we can control our thoughts. We can chose what thoughts we want to entertain and despatch any unwelcome ones back to where they came.

This is in no way suppresses our thoughts; indeed, it is something we do frequently when we have to concentrate on the task in hand rather than indulging our desire to drift off into a reverie about Johnny Depp or winning the lottery.

Speaking of Johnny Depp, I wholeheartedly recommend the film Don Juan del Marco which he made some years back with Marlon Brando. Apart from the incomparable acting and memorable storyline, it should particularly appeal to those who recognise that all things are possible and thaat pyschotherapy is but another way to access the ever open 'doors of perception' that lead to personal empowerment.

Thus ends my second marathon response on your thread - if I keep this up for a while longer I'll have enough for a book

izzy this is just a quick post to thank you for your again thoughtful and detail post. I will have a look at the other brad yates videos whilst DS is having his lunchtime nap.

Just briefly, I went to my yoga class last night and the teacher was talking about beyond the movements and breathing and imagining your minds eye being very far away and looking back on yourself and your life at a distance (ie from the top of a mountain); which then puts things in perspective. she is also doing a course this weekend about letting go of emotion, which feels quite timely.

garlic would you be able to expand a little on "re-parenting". sorry to dash, DP is going to work now and i have to look after DS now.
thanks all

Wow, some great advice on here. just to add a couple of points, I think it totally unacceptable that dh hit you (regardless of your behaviour)..please think about this and whether you need to be somewhere safe. i may be reading this wrong but he sounds quite threating at times to you?

Secondly, you're overseas and gave birth a year ago, what a lethal combination for being super-vulnerable! I would not rush to make any decisions unless you need to in order to be safe. Are there any MN meet-ups near you, do you have local support, local playgroups?

Thank you for asking :)

Self-parenting is the therapeutic process of acknowledging the hurt, lonely child inside us (not everyone, of course - the child we were lives within us all, but not all children lived in fear, thank goodness.) Instead of squashing her down, we learn to listen to her, soothe and protect her; treat her with the respect and love she deserves. We aim to be a better 'parent', so she feels safe and confident at last.

Inner-child work is only one way of repairing the damage done by an inadequate childhood. It doesn't suit everyone. Whichever route you end up taking, it's important to remember that you can't "just get over it" as often advised by people who ought to think a bit harder. The childhood you had forms the adult you are. When that childhood taught you inefficient lessons - to be afraid, defensive, aggressive, to silence yourself or to hide (just a few examples!) - those lessons are not going to help you "get over it". We need to learn more helpful ways of being and, fortunately, we can.

Most people come to psychotherapy via self-help and I agree with Izzy that Brad Yates's affirmations are good. I hadn't seen him before, and am enjoying his videos. I've picked out some from his stream, that may help you open your mind, as it were, to a more enjoyable realtionship with yourself along with the anger one. Don't try them all at once, you'll be tapping all day

If you're curious about inner-child work, have a look at the "Recovery of Your Inner Child" workbook by Lucia Cappachione :)

Expat makes a crucial point - with a new baby, you're vulnerable. No doubt very tired and swamped with emotion, you're bound to be feeling raw. It might well be that things are coming together for you because of it, but you still need to be kind and gentle to yourself: perhaps even especially so.

The yoga sounds great! Please remember that you're not faulty, you're hurt. If you'd broken a leg, you wouldn't force yourself to go running, you'd give yourself time to heal and take it gently. Same with emotional injuries :)

Damn, just seen missing new line.

expat you have made a very valid point about DP hitting me. It has been just wrong and the last time he did it, i did pack DS and the car and just left. i stayed overnight with some other british friends who are friendly with DP and the husband spoke to DP who said he deeply regretted it.

Now i have looked at the cycle of abuse and there has been a pattern, but i am not in danger.

My situation is so complex that at the moment I don't want to leave DP. He is fundamentally a good man but he has issues with controlling his own frustrations, and for many years did listen to all my issues, but things came to a head during my pregnancy and when DS was newborn and i was physically & emotionally unable to make appropriate changes.

perhaps with hindsight i shouldn't have committed to buying this house, but I guess there is a part of me which is desperate to create a home and a family life for DS which i missed out on.

garlic thank you for all the links. want to write more but DS has just woken from his nap so i have to go but will watch the videos soon.
thanks again all.

Oh dear, ready, I hadn't realised DP had hit you for any reason other than a single time to try and shock you out of hitting him. Neither had I grasped that he also has an 'anger problem' and his behaviours became more oppressive when you were pregnant.

This is starting to look like a matter of abusive control, and I'd actually caution you against trying to change yourself as a means of improving your relationship. It's completely understandable that you wish a stable family life for DS. There's a risk of replicating your own childhood family, though, or a version of it ... What did you mean by making "appropriate changes"?

Izzy, i decided to address your point about control after all. What sets us apart from the animal kingdom is the ability to choose our responses to emotions; no feeling can be wrong in itself.

I don't see that my phrase 'control our impulses and responses' is markedly different from your description ^choose our responses to emotions' garlic.

I don't want to get drawn into semantics but, for me, a 'feeling' is denoted by a physical response to any given stimuli which can then manifest as a 'thought'.

While 'feelings' in themselves may not be 'wrong', I take the view that unless we are under imminent threat of, or subject to, physical attack any 'feeling' that encourages us to harm others cannot be considered to be 'good'.

With regard to my use of the words 'self-control' and 'self-discipline', I would like to make it clear that these in no way equate to the oft-used and singularly unhelpful phrases that anyone who is depressed or struggling with mental issues caused by historic or recent trauma invariably hears which are 'you've got to pull yourself together' and 'you've got to get over it'.

Of course, there are times when we have no choice but to 'get a grip' as it's often the case that if we don't no one else is going to do it for us, but it's an entirely different matter when our legitimate concern for our mental wellbeing is dismissed or derided by others.

OP, I'd be grateful if you'd clarify whether your dp has hit you on any occasion where you haven't been the aggressor.

I would make the point that when we change our perception of ourselves, it can alter the way in which others perceive us. It is to be hoped that if you are able to reach an accomodation with yourself whereby you do not allow historic abuse to dictate your responses to present day events, your relationships with others, including your dp, will undergo a similar transformation.

I sincerely hope that you will follow through on your desire for change by participating in BY's EFT videos on a daily basis for the foreseeable future.

Do feel free to adopt any of the phrases that particularly resonate with you and use them as your personal mantras on a regular basis, say, once an hour as many times as you wish - mantras are particularly effective when said out loud in front of a mirror.

When I have a particularly challenging day ahead I engage in Brad's 'Tap o' the morning' before I set off to slay the dragon (again). If you're beginning to feel that you're fraying at the edges by the time dusk falls, try 'Tap o' the evening' to restore your equilibrium.

Practising yoga can teach you to 'live in the moment' which, for those of us who are beset by the constant mental torment of worries, fears, and doubts, can be akin to a state of bliss.

Use your yoga skills to engage in a period of daily meditation. My 5 or 10 mins a day when I 'escape' from the material world is sacrosanct - as some have learned the hard way.

Don't be despairing if you feel that you're taking 2 steps forward and 1 back. We're all a work in progress and I suspect it was never the plan that we'd be finished, so to speak, in any one lifetime.

I wish you and your Dp and children well. Some great advice on here.x

just want to thank you all for continued support and advice.
spent the day with a (new) friend in RL; that was a boost.

Not everyday will be easy, i know so will continue with the eft and also thinking about taking up running (again) to get me out of the house and help my serotonin levels.

The support on this thread has really helped me get out of the hole i had found myself in and get out and contact people which is what i have needed.

I need to get a balance between working on myself but not being too introspective and self analytical; sometimes i think for me it's best not to over think it and just get out and live.

izzy no DP has not hit me first. I do however very much believe in what you said about how changing my self perception will change how others perceive and therefore treat me.