surrendered husband

[garlicBread]

I've found one, sadly short, forum thread on the Surrendered Husband. Also one interesting document from a religious pov, which basically says that husbands need to ditch their macho conditioning and get to grips with the fact that acting to please your spouse leads to a successful marriage.

I feel it's a shame that 'TSW' doesn't advocate mutual and equal 'surrender', as that's quite a bit more likely to work as a relationship.

So, okay. Your recommendations for the Surrendered Husband?

Emerge from bushes of macho camouflage with hands raise saying 'I give up - don't shoot' would be my first recommendation.

Alternatively, the potential prisoner could tentatively wave a white flag from the bunker of chauvinism and hope to be airlifted out of the battleground.

Personally, I don't believe that 'surrender' is an appropriate word to use in the dynamic of relationships regardless of whether they are sexual or social unless, of course, the parties are role-playing.

Izzy! I love the "bushes of macho camouflage" ...

As wise folks pointed out on the SW thread, the whole surrender premise begins with an idea of relationships as battlegrounds. The author was, apparently, domineering in her marriage and consequently suffered a resentful husband. If 'surrender' was supposed to mean surrendering the desire to rule one's partner - of either gender - it's good sense. Unfortunately she decided to make it all one-way and took it to absurd extremes.

Rational ideas of 'surrender', for a man with too much entitlement old-fashioned values, might include such advice as:
Remember she's done a full day's work, too
Make sure she puts her feet up and offer her a drink
Before asking for something, consider doing it yourself
Always be open and equal about money
Take your share of heavy shopping/children/laundry.

Still rational, but slightly less philosophical:
When you see dirty laundry on the floor, put it in the basket
When the laundry basket's full, put a wash on
When the washing machine or dishwasher has finished, unload it and put the stuff away
Do the shopping and put it away
Make supper
Notice when she looks nice, and tell her
Thank her for doing things
Replace the loo roll
Vacuum.

... I'm sure there must be LOTS more!

However, I'd rather nobody, man or woman, surrendered to the extent of never questioning any decision or taping your own mouth up

garlicBread I like your post so much that I wish I could make a poster to put on my wall

If I've got to teach a man to be considerate, he sure ain't going to get anywhere near my bush no matter what camouflage he's wearing

This is another way of living that works best if done in a BDSM framework: one of the happiest couples I know of are Mistress and slave (yet perfectly capable of interacting with non-BDSM people without immediately outing themselves as fraeks).

I take your point, Izzy! SGB, I'll just have to believe you as my interest in power-based relationships (sexual and otherwise) disappeared as soon as I 'de-abused' myself. Admittedly, I'm now flailing around for new fantasies but am sure I'll come with them as needed

Phantom, you can always make a poster ...!

To explain the premise: It is true that a lot of boys are indoctrinated with messages that teach them to be dominant. In most cases it pervades everything from school sports, to parental teachings, to peer-group values, digital games, films, music and literature. "Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!"

When that planet-owning, team-leading, game-winning, acquisitive, detached and undemonstrative Man marries, he's swamped with advice that's (nowadays) delivered jokily but boils down to "Don't let her get the better of you" - the ball and chain. Chances are, if he's received a traditionally boyish upbringing, his parents modelled a man-in-charge relationship so the 'jokes' make sense.

It's not too surprising, in my opinion, that a lot of men flounder in the daily details of an equal, intimate relationship. What continues to surprise me is that women still count themselves responsible for educating their partner or, more often, putting up with dissatisfaction and 'changing' (sacrificing) themselves to stop feeling it.

Despite the millions of women discussing amongst themselves how to get a husband to be more considerate/equal; despite the shelves groaning with books to help women sacrifice themselves; despite equal numbers of books designed to help men get a girlfriend or at least get laid ... there isn't a single one intended to help men be wonderful husbands. Well, there is one actually; it's a mini-book.

Does this mean that most men are such great husbands, there's nothing to change? It can't do, can it, or why the need for all the books to help women put up with their husbands? It can't mean none of the men perceive a need for guidance, or they wouldn't buy all that stuff to help them get a girlfriend. So it's looking like a yawning chasm in the market!

And what we have here, fellow Mumsnetters, is a widely-read forum, well indexed by search engines, and the space to specify *How to be a Perfect Husband (or at least a very good one)"

I can't believe no-one has any suggestions