Relate counselling advice......is this it?

[PlayingItSafe]

Had to Name change but posted on here several times :)

Long story short - H had affair, decided to stick with it after initial seperation, both agreed to attend counselling as part of healing process.
Been to 3 sessions now, first 1 introduction, 2nd one was all about THE event and MY feelings following discovery etc, thought it went very well, but perhaps thats just because we were discussing me .

Went last night and I left feeling very let-down (H felt it was very sucessful). I know they are not supposed to be judgemental, but surely they should be questioning H's decisions that led him to have the affair? She never questioned him or asked him to explain what was going on that led him to the affair, she just sat and nodded at him, as if this was alright. I honestly feel she had given H green light for affair - shouldn't they be getting H to face his actions and see that it is not OK to go outside the marriage and he should of tried to fix it with me... I don't feel we are being challenged at all, infact we are only saying what we say to each other at home with some strange nodding dog women watching us.
Am I expecting too much?...Might not be able to answer straight away, but I would realy appreciate your thoughts/experiences. Thanks :)

PlayingItSafe, I've gone to relate and found them enormously helpful. But I was going alone, after the breakup of my relationship. They will never question anybody's actions or try to make anybody see anything. It is simply not possible to change a person from the outside. The person has to find things out for himself/herself. Relate provide an environment where this could happen. But this will probably take time. Three sessions is very very early days, so keep going and keep talking. And, unfortunately, if your husband does not want to change, not even Relate can make him. Sad, but true.

It sounds like you have had one session discussing you and the event and one and him so quite equal really? Sounds like you were both listened to as you described events. What you both don't say is probably as important as what you do say. The counsellor isn't there to tell anyone off but I would expect that they will begin to challenge both of you.
It's interesting that you are expressing annoyance at the counsellor for not challenging yet not expressing annoyance at your H for the way he presented it to her.
It would be pretty useless if Relate was about telling the straying partner that they shouldn't have done it, why should/would anyone do as they are told by a random counsellor? - people have to come to their own conclusions about what they have done, why they have done it and if they want to change. I would presume that the questioning and challenging will start to lead you both in that direction if you stick with it

I wouldn't necessarily recommend Relate for this issue. A lot of the therapists have received no training for dealing with infidelity and there are some very old-fashioned views about why it happens.

That said, by session three the therapist is still trying to build rapport and trust and it could be counter-productive to be too challenging with either of you just yet. I'd recommend persevering for another three sessions and if you find the counsellor is just listening and not asking many questions by that point, consider a couple of other options. You could ask to be re-assigned to a therapist who has both experience and training in dealing with infidelity, or consider a private therapist with those qualities.

Thanks for the replies. I guess I'm expecting too much too soon, I just found the whole session last night a rambling mess to be honest. Eurostar I certainly wasn't expecting the counsellor to tell H he shouldn't of done it...the deed is already done, but I did expect them to start questioning his reasoning behind it, what led him too it, etc. I read somewhere that a key question that should be addressed is "what did you say to yourself to give yourself permission to have an affair" I sat waiting for her to say something along these lines but she just sat nodding at H. I can't say I was annoyed at H either, what he said was what happened (or so he tells me) its just there was no depth to it IYSWIM. Last weeks session was far more revealing, she questioned me, picked up little things I said and made me examine them more closely, I was expecting more of the same this week, but focusing on H rather than me.
Charbon Yes, this makes sense. Perhaps shes worried we won't come back if she pushes us to soon :). I'll See what happens over the coming weeks. I'm just wary thats it's expensive and as I said in my OP we haven't said anything to each other yet that we haven't said already.

I'm obviously expecting miracles far too soon.

I'm assuming you've asked him that question yourself, though?

Have a think about why you want the counsellor to ask it as well as, or instead of, you? It is, as you say, a very good question.

Another tip I'd share is not to put all your eggs in one basket with the counselling. Read as much as you can and share what you've read with the therapist. A good one will have read widely too and will be interested in the books/articles that appeal to you most - and why. I also hope that you're talking in between sessions. Again, a good therapist will often suggest 'homework' via a few exercises and will sometimes give you handouts or suggest other reading material.

It would be absolutely relevant for you to bring up how you feel at your next session. Something like "I noticed that in our second session, when I said x, you challenged me and we explored y, but I felt disappointed that last time, you didn't ask (D)H to examine what he brought up in the same way. Why was that, exactly?"

There was a bloke in my office who went to Relate after his wife found out about his cheating. He started off saying it was a load of embarrassing bollocks and he was only going to keep his wife off his back. After a couple of months, he was a changed man. He gained a new depth to his character, was more tolerant and open, altogether a more thoughtful person and much more interesting.

He kept going for six months, iirc. It was the making of him. I know Relate counsellors vary tremendously; his was clearly someone who was really good at counselling, individually as well as in the relationships arena. It's too soon to tell whether you've got a good 'un - I hope so!

The man at work did stay with his wife, and reported a marriage that was better than when they first got married :)

Charbon No I haven't asked the question, I was waiting for the counsellor to bring it up, not sure why really . See this is what I was expecting from counselling...homework and exercises to do... I actually brought to the session last night a "letter to a wayward spouse" that I'd found on the internet, she looked at it and hmmmed...really that was all, no question as to why I felt it was relevant or anything..this is not right is it?
LeBOF I intend to do this, I'm not sure why H was not questioned to the same extent I was, perhaps she's saving it for a later date, I don't know, time will tell I guess. Off the bed now, thanks for your replies.

off to bed now :)

Thanks garlic just seen message. Thats very positive and {crosses fingers} hope that works for us like that. I suspect I am wanting far too much, far too soon, as usual

DH and I went to relate (for issues around stepparenting, mainly). I was disappointed sometimes, too, that she did not challenge DH on some things. There were times when I desperately needed the validation of an outside party. But that is not how they work, I guess. On the other hand, a lot of good came out of it. DH opened up more, and while it was no magic bullet for our problems, we did talk productively in our sessions.

Agree with above posters - do reading as well, and 'homework'. For us, the most useful thing about Relate was not the counsellor at all - it was that it made us really focus on solving our problem, and that became a priority, whereas before Relate, I felt like it was my priority, but not DH's, as he just wanted to carry on as though everything were OK. We began to set aside time to work on it at home, ourselves, and that ended up being better than Relate.

Also agree that you should tell counselor how you feel about the direction of the sessions.

why H was not questioned to the same extent I was

It occurs to me that all affairs are much the same, but cheated spouses have varied and complex reactions. When you read infidelity threads on here, the content is rarely about "Why?" although that's the question most often asked by the OP. I'm only guessing here but, perhaps, she only needed to establish whether your H was blaming you for his behaviour and, if not, why he thinks it happened. All the rest is going to be about your underlying relationship and how it's changed due to his behaviour. In the early stages, she'll get more of that from you than from him.

I have been for three sessions too, and found it very helpful. I think the counsellor has been challenging, actually, although not judgemental. For example, in the first two weeks he managed to shift my husband quite radically from a couple of views he has expressed for at least two years, and didnt ring true for me, and which have always seemed to me to really be about something else. I would go as far as to say that he challenged those views fairly robustly, although kindly and without judgement.

However, we also have fidelity issues (I believe I have a fair bit of evidence, he denies all), which were raised in the first session, and denied as per usual. The counsellor hasnt raised them again, and I have found this frustrating. But I also think the counsellor is trying to establish trust and to get us to a better place all round, so that whatever is there can come out, that h can feel safe to talk about it, iyswim.

(After all, the counsellor must see that I have had sod all luck getting it out of it myself, regardless of the nature of our discussions, so a slower approach which tackles the underlying problems first might be better). The other thing is, I suppose a poor outcome is a partial disclosure, so maybe he has to get us to a place where , when I am told, I believe it is the full story.

Maybe this is how they work; I dont know. I'm going to stick with it for now. I do like the counsellor and so does h. He has our respect. I agree with the poster above who says that if it isnt working for you after say another three sessions, find another one, Im sure they are all different.

I haven't ever been to relate but I have had counselling - and I would suggest you try to look at things a little differently. The counsellor is not there to judge - they are there to facilitate discussion between the two of you. Someone said to me about my own therapy 'you are the only one in the room really' - so true. The therapist/ counsellor is just there creating a safe space and allowing you both to open up - you need to know now that she is not going to 'tell' your husband anything. Just as it would be wrong for her to 'tell' you that you did something wrong - that's just not how counselling works.

If you want your husband to understand that what he did was wrong - that has to come from inside HIM. Not from outside - not from being told definitively by an outside source that he breached the marital code. WHat matters is how he feels and how he looks at it.

Try to see the counselling as a learning experience - he learns how you feel, you learn how he feels. If you go into it only wanting him to know about your hurt, you might not get far - it doesn't mean you have to agree with him, but you can learn about what thought processes he has been going through, what he has been using to justify his actions. Then you will have to decide if he has understood you enough to move on.

None of that is the counsellors job. You will get much, much more out of it if you open up, talk, ask questions, use the safe space you are in to directly address your husband, I presume that the counsellor WILL facilitate and help you with that - ie. rather than shutting down as he might do at home, in counselling he will have to respond to you...

so....keep at it and see if a different approach gets better results

Thank you all for the the advice, as suspected I am expecting far too much..a magic wand perhaps to make it all better :( I do intend to stick with it and waterrat I take your comments onboard. I just expected more from it somehow but it is early days so time will tell.

Thanks again. :)

I think one of the problems with this is that you have suffered a terrible injury and have been wronged. It's understandable that if you're telling someone about that injury, you need for them to sympathise and acknowledge your feelings. One of the mistakes I think some therapists make in an effort not to be judgemental, is to forget that the hurt and grief are real and need to be acknowledged. It's possible to do this without alienating your husband or appearing to condemn him.

I'm interested in why you haven't asked questions yourself though. It's really important that you're able to discuss what's happened outside of the therapy room, because at some stage it will end and you will need to have formed good communication habits before that. I also hope that your husband is doing more than just turning up at the counselling, to help him understand his choices.

I can actually see two possibilities here: one is that the therapist is just still trying to learn about both of you and the situation, and the other is that she is sexist and expects the woman to change/adapt to what the man 'needs' in a relationship. I have met counsellors/mediators like this- they often take a Freudian (who was extremely sexist) perspective. I would find it a bit of a red flag that she questioned you when you were talking but just let him get on with it- sort of an indication that she thinks it's for the woman to do the emotional work in the relationship, and put more effort into counselling. I would want to ask her why she questioned you and didn't question/clarify anything when he was talking, and if she didn't give a good answer (e.g. that she felt she hadn't understood the circumstances and needed realy just to get the background from him, whereas she'd understood what you said more and so was able to ask more in your case), then I'd be looking for a therapist with a more feminist perspective on relationships (not sure that such things exist but I think they should!).

Interesting (though I think US-based) article here: www.psychpage.com/family/library/gender.html

We have just had our first session and like you playingitsafe I expected them to grill him some more, rather than sit and nod and take notes. But I suppose thats how they work. I want miracles too but i guess its going to take a long time to get there.

Long story short, been together for 10 years, married 6 years, intimacy / sex issues - DH has porn addiction and stepped over the line by contacting an escort. This has happened twice now and broken my trust completely. Not wanting to leave him (YET!) I decided to give Relate a try and I just want some answers....!

Ours was an initial assessment and she seemed very polite when all i wanted her to do was challenge him for what he did... it seemed too calm and I was very sad and just wanted her to tell me what to do next..but i now understand why she behaved that way - to help me understand what I really wanted to do.

Counsellors will not be judgy or take sides.

I've had 6 sessions with a relate trained cousnellor and TBH found her useless.

I wanted some kind of "guidance" or at least confirmation that my feelings were justifed ( not DH having an affair) but all she did was nod and take me back to my parents' marriage as if it was a prototype I'd absorbed and therefore was (possibly) modelling my own on that.

She told me that she preferred to work with couples in order to either help them to fix marriages or decide to separate.

If you feel your counsellor is not dealing with issues you want your DH to answer to, then you have every right to bring this up in the session - or to ask him those challenging questions in front of the counsellor. It's important you use the sessions to talk about what you want and not an agenda set by anyone else.

Taken when you said this- It cost a bloody fortune too. I wish we had just found a counsellor with experience it the field of infidelity.

Most counsellors charge roughly the same- £45 an hour.

I also pick up from your posts and the OP that you want someone to call your partners to account for their actions.

No decent counsellor would do that.

If you wanted to discuss the affair you should have said that in the session.

I expect that 99% of counsellors- particuclarly those with Relate- have clients who are seeing them post-affiars. But even if they are not, then it shouldn't matter- their training should equip them to deal with anything and everything that happens in relationships- it's not the type of training that includes a "tick box" of marital situations which they have to cover.

They are there to facilitate discussion from you- not to take sides or have opinions on what is right or wrong.

sorry- this sounds a bit ranty but I have 3 good friends/colleagues who are counsellors and there is often a misunderstanding over their training and what they should say.

You get back what you put into counselling... Start the next session by saying how you felt about the last. As has been said above they are there to facilitate and won't fulfil your need for validation. Read a lot, check out the marriage builders website which has great infidelity resources (wish I'd found these before!), talk to you DH outside of the session as an hour a week isn't much.... See it as part of the process, not THE process.

Sorry, I didn't mean to take over your thread PlayingitSafe!