Abusive ex & contact - so confused about what to do, any advice & opinions welcome

[splishsplosh]

Left abusive ex just over 2 years ago. Spent a year in a refuge. When we came home, I let him see the kids when he wanted but his behaviour really deteriorated, and culminated in him haranguing me and pushing me over in the street in front of the dc, and that night breaking into the house.

While on bail for that, he saw the children when they visited his mum - they spend the day with his mum, step dad and sister about every 2 weeks.

A few days after being sentenced he was harassing me again, and this time his bail conditions restricted him from contacting me or the children.

He broke his bail conditions several times by emailing me rather crazy obsessive missives, even after he'd been found guilty, but before sentencing until I blocked him. He then failed to turn up for sentencing. He finally went to court last week, 3 months later. And on Friday his mum called to say he wanted to see the children that weekend, and she would collect them etc. I said no, as I hadn't been made aware that he'd been to court and wasn't sure if it was true, but now know it was.

So: am not sure what to do.
Is it better to let him see the children (aged 5 and 3) through his mum, though not sure if they are expecting this in addition to their visits to her?

Or is it better to wait for him to seek access through court, which would lay down proper boundaries, and hopefully restrict how manipulative and controlling he might try to be.?

He obviously doesn't acknowledge how wrong his begaviour has been as he never attended the Abusers Programme he was ordered to go on.
He has had problems with drugs, and drug testing was part of his sentence in January.
It always seems as if contact with the children is at least in part to do with his desire to affect me - ie in the past wanted me to be present as well, questioning eldest about a man he thought I was seeing, telling me in front of them that he would go away and never see them again if I wouldn't give him another chance, also telling them that he would never see them again and the reason was because I wanted to see other men...

I just don't know what's for the best. Sorry this is so long!

Supervised in a contact centre at the very least, would be my suggestion

Why would you let him see them? It's your job to protect them, not put them in the hands of an abusive man.

What thunderbolts said

Thunder - I would be happy for them not to see him. Whilst I would say it's usually important for children to have contact with their dad, I don't think he is going to be a positive part of their lives.

But I'm also trying to be realistic, and am aware that courts give access to abusive parents. And I guess I am worried that he'll get more contact awarded though court than he would get through his mum. And I think there's a degree of worry about whether he'll be angry if I say no to contact, and what will happen then

If you're worried about him getting angry and unsure of what he will do, there's your answer. Don't be bullied by him anymore. I know its not easy, I'm in the middle of it myself, but he is not a good person to have around your DCs. They are so little and will soak up everything they see x

The last 3 months have been so peaceful... and now I feel depressed and just tired at the prospect of more standing up for us and our safety and happiness

Ah hun, its exhausting isn't it :(

there's a degree of worry about whether he'll be angry if I say no to contact, and what will happen then

This man is unstable and I understand your concerns. Do you have a non-molestation Order in place? If not I would suggest you visit www.rightsofwomen.org.uk and call the Helpline which is staffed by female solicitors and barristers on 020 7251 6577 Monday 11am-1pm, Tuesday/Wednesday 2pm-4pm and 7pm-9pm, Thursday 7pm-9pm and Fridays 12noon-2pm.

Under the circumstances I would suggest that you suspend contact until such time as you have sought legal advice from a solicitor who specialises in Family Law.

It may be that once you let his mother know that no contact can take place for the foreseeable future, he will act out again. However, if he does so, it will be further evidence that your dc should not have contact with him unless it is properly supervised in a neutral venue.

Are you supported by friends and family?

the courts give access but they can specify how long for and who will supervise.
court can specifcy supervised at contact centre only. for example. eg for minimum xis months then review . contact centre is not likely to be more than with his mother due to lack of spaces etc.

tell him via his mother you offering contact centre only due to his court appareances etc.

settng it out in court order is the best way with this kind of person.

loose informal arrangements with his mother are not going to work long term.

are you happy handing over to his mother? do you trust her?

if you not sure then use a contact centre

www.naccc.org.uk
contact centre far more formal for hand overs and set times etc - thos they can be ncie places inside espec for younger children with toys books etc. and you can avoid any contact with him.
it is safer for dc and they should feel safer knowing there is independent adult around.

you need ot ahve contact arranged thru formal channels so you ahve the legal system in palce if and when it goes wrong eg he kicks off.

doing thru his mother - only if you totally trust her and if she understands her son's behaviour is wrong.

also go to gp and talk about the stress this has you under - if only to get it on record. they can also refer you to nhs counsellor

What Izzy said. Agree with Cest too... but I don't think his mother understands how wrong his ehaviour is at all simply by the fact that she just expected her son to have contact while DS was there despite everything

Thanks for all your comments.
I do think that legal boundaries for the contact is best because of the way he always pushes and pushes to get his own way. I'd hope he would only get supervised contact because he failed to go on the abusers programme etc.

I don't have a non molestation order at the moment - last one expired last October, and since then there have been bail conditions that have provided the same protection. The police and solicitor asaid they were going to ask the court for a restraining order this time, but there's no mention of it in the sentence - I was so upset at hearing that... feels like they haven't acknowledged his impact on us, or done what they could to protect us.

He was given community service and a suspended prison sentence which hopefully might be a bit of a deterrent, but who knows.

The safety officer said if he did anything else I could get another injunction. And last time I spoke to a solicitor about one, she said the last thing he's done hadn't been recent enough - even though I'd had bail protection in the meantime so hadn't needed an injunction when he'd acted out. So don't know that I could get one now either as nothing has happened since June when I blocked his email.

Don't have any family nearby but since getting away from him, I've made a few good friends who are lovely, so do have some support.

But I still feel alone and tearful and just worn down about it.

Eldest was talking about him today, and what he;d done, and how he is bad and that she doesn't like him any more.

The dc are due to go to his mum's tomorrow, but I've told them only as long as they don't let him come round and see them.

I do trust them, but I also am sure he manipulates his mum, and wouldn't be surprised if she didn't really appreciate how hideous his behaviour has been. Luckily his sister and step dad are very upset with him and won't spend time with him, so it's not easy for him to just turn up there anyway.

I think you should stay with your dcs when they are at his mums or get her to come to you. It sounds like she's planning on letting him see them.

This makes me so angry it's awful that you are stuck in this position. Courts seem to have no understanding or acknowledgement of the fact that an abuser will almost always attempt to continue the abuse, control or harrassment of their ex by using the children. It's not only unfair on the children, who are likely to bear the brunt of the ex's behaviour, it is extremely unhelpful to the abused partner who is most likely struggling with recovery, and in turn, this is unhelpful for the children to witness also.

We now have support for leaving abusive relationships, but I think it should go further. It's hard enough dealing with it as an adult - children shouldn't have to go through this. Splish just fight all you can to put every barrier up possible.

I think it's amazing how social services are rightly concerned if a woman doesn't protect the children from the abusive person by leaving... yet as soon as a woman does leave, the emphasis switches back to encouraging the children to have contact with the abusive parent.

His family have agreed they won't let him see them. They know they can't hide it, children would always say.

Yes, aaargh, that drives me mad as well. It's like a complete turnaround. "It's in the children's best interests!" Really?? When they are crying and begging you not to make them go? :(

It's not fair

I think it's amazing how social services are rightly concerned if a woman doesn't protect the children from the abusive person by leaving... yet as soon as a woman does leave, the emphasis switches back to encouraging the children to have contact with the abusive parent.
Makes no sense at all...

Its a one size fits all 'children must have contact with father regardless'.. it doesn't work like that. I wish we had Australia's system x

Courts seem to have no understanding or acknowledgement of the fact that an abuser will almost always attempt to continue the abuse, control or harrassment of their ex by using the children. It's not only unfair on the children, who are likely to bear the brunt of the ex's behaviour, it is extremely unhelpful to the abused partner who is most likely struggling with recovery, and in turn, this is unhelpful for the children to witness also.
I'm going to print this off. Its so well put. Thanks Bertie

Would you not consider going to mediation and coming to a proper arrangment with your ex regarding access to the kids with the proviso that he keeps from harrassing you. Could it not be that he feels totally disenfranchised and despairing at the prospect of losing his kids. While many adults fall out of love with one another they seldom fall out of love with their childlren. Obviously I don't know all your story other that what you've stated here and only you will know if granting him regular access to the children is truly detrimental to them.

((hugs)) and what everyone else said. It's my worst nightmare thinking about XP asking to see the kids.

I did find mediation was helpful as they chucked XP out, he couldn't keep his calm and they weren't having any of it.

And it's not in the children's best interests to see an abusive parent, I don't think they magically become sensible, caring people just because they no longer live in the family home . Hope you're ok after the weekend.

That's right. He is their father and has the right to have a relationship with his dc and they have the right to have a relationship with their father.

That has appeared to be the philosophy in my situation. So, no matter how he behaved whilst he was married and at home, then, now he has been transformed into a new improved human being it seems.

But try not worrying about how even his thought processes will impact on the dc every time they see him. I haven't worked out how to do that at all.

He did seek mediation when he was on bail and not supposed to be in contact with me, but my safety officer said mediation was never recommended in abusive situations.

runoutofideas - i did try and let him see the children freely, but unfortunately he was unable to control himself at all from inappropriate behaviour /comments when having any contact with me at all.

Yes, I worry about his influence on them anyway - he;s so manipulative, and is utterly certain he knows best for everyone - he will no doubt try to mould them to what he thinks they should be like - for instance he thinks it is important to be ruthless to succeed in life, and would think that's how they should be. I think he sees them as some kind of trophies, he wants them to be something he can boast about, as opposed to appreciating them for who they are.

drugs would be the deal breaker for me I'm afraid.

"Could it not be that he feels totally disenfranchised and despairing at the prospect of losing his kids2

sure.
but it is HIS problem if he takes this out on the mother of the DC or n the DC by behvaing inappropriately in front of them.

op you need to get this in a court setting, get CAFCASS invloved, play it out thru all the proper channels.

that way he gets the proper chance to put his case across too.

likey scenario would be supervised contact fror some while - CAFCASS wouldl recommend if this happens at his mothers or at a contact centre.