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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

My poor friend

50 replies

WinkyWinkola · 19/10/2011 11:02

I don't know how to help her.

She's pg with her 4th. Her dh doesn't want it. Says it will ruin the family and the other children will have to immediately leave private school, they'll have to sell their house - "ruin what they have now".

She doesn't want to be pg, wants the baby though iyswim, and is finding his pleading and begging really hard to deal with.

She has an appointment booked at a clinic for next Wed - she's had a bit of counselling for this. She's 13 weeks now. She just doesn't know where to turn or what to think. She doesn't think it's such a 'disaster' as her dh does but he appears to be totally panicking and says he'll do anything if only she'll get rid of her pregnancy.

She says she would like me to come with her to the appointment. I can't. I just cannot. I'm such a crap friend but I cannot go to one of those clinics again.

Is there any other help she can access, please? And will she be "ruining" the family? I don't say anything but try to listen because everyone is telling her to have a termination.

OP posts:

JanePumpkin · 20/10/2011 07:54

I think you need to be clear, maybe more clear about your feelings on it.

People around me thought I knew what they thought - and it really mattered to me, that I wasn't being perceived as stupid, as thoughtless, and cruel even to bring a child into the situation.

I couldn't handle that. Even I thought I was wrong to keep him.

I needed badly someone to approve of it. Just one person. And I didn't know what the non-approvers thought, I was guessing, no one said, apart from dp of course.

Just so you know, she may not know what you think. Just tell her simply. And maintain that you will support her whatever she decides.

JanePumpkin · 20/10/2011 07:56

sorry, it sounds like I'm trying to hang it all on your shoulders...I'm not, that's not right. It's not your job to do this.

But i just wanted to explain how it feels from the other side...maybe my distant friend was able to state her pro-stance easier because she wasn't near enough to be caught in the fallout, or blamed. You may not be in the position where you want responsibility for this...and it wouldn't be your fault whatever she did.

Original poster

WinkyWinkola · 20/10/2011 09:13

No but I can see what you're saying Jane. I guess she could do with one person actively saying it as opposed to all those including her in laws, telling her termination is best for

OP posts:

pink4ever · 20/10/2011 09:25

winky-why is your friend choosing to believe the crap her dh is peddling though? She must know that he is talking shite? So what if they do have to down size or god forbid their kids have to go to the local comp-they will survive!. If her dh genuinely didnt want another dc he would have gone for the snip so imo that means he has no say in the choice now.

I actually can see myself being in a similiar predicament-my dh is also dragging his feet over having the snip-horror stories ffs. We are very fertile so am bound to end up pregnant sooner rather than later. But dh is adamant that he doesnt want more dcs. Hell would freeze over before I would terminate a healthy pregnancy. Not judging btw-have had one but will never go through that again.

Apologies for hijack-just musing....

Pakdooik · 20/10/2011 09:39

winky What a horrible position for you to be in but a dreadful one for your friend.

An abortion for his purely selfish reasons is the worst type of termination.

RubyLovesMayMay · 20/10/2011 09:44

Winky I would just make it as plain as this:

"Please DO NOT have a termination unless YOU are 100% sure it's what you want"

If there's any shadow of doubt about having a termination then you shouldnt be having one.

That way you are not swaying her one way or another, just making sure she makes her own decision and for the right reasons.

A friend of mine got pregnant, had no other kids but boyfriend told her it was for the best that she never kept it. All her friends and family thought that maybe she wasnt ready.

I was the only one who said maybe its not the end of the world, but she believed the majority and had a termination. The regret was unbearable because when it came down to it she didnt believe in herself enough to go against what others thought she should do, if that makes sense.

No-one else lives with the pain or regret, so no one else should make that decision for you.

Im 13 weeks pregnant so my heart goes out to her

knitpicker · 20/10/2011 12:01

Hi WInkywinkola, I remember a thread about a similar situation many months ago - it was the lady herself who was pregnant who posted - her DH was trying to persuade her to terminate and she didn't want to - maybe I didn't follow it to the end and it is the same on was mentioned above. Anyhoo - I got pasted on that thread for mentioning my experience of an unwanted pregnancy. We had two sons at the time, the youngest just turned one and I discovered I was pg. DH was devasted - our business was not going fantastically well, we were living in a tiny house with no possibility of moving, we were caring for an elderly relation with terminal cancer - in short already struggling. We talked to our gp - I wanted to keep it, DH was adamant we shouldn't - he felt it would be completely irresponsible in every way. Eventually after the initial shock wore off and we came to terms with the idea we did indeed keep the baby - she is now six and obviously the absolute light of our lives. DH has asked me never to mention how badly he wanted me to get a termination and I never do.
Some people on here went on about what a monster he must be to persuade a woman to terminate - in fact he is a kind and loving person and a wonderful father but takes life seriously in terms of providing financially for his family. I have noticed on here that any talk of the father being conflicted in terms of terminating a pg or not quickly attracts the foaming beserkers.
Well done for supporting your friend but I would caution against getting too involved.

wiseoldowl · 20/10/2011 13:11

Hi Winky,
firstly can I say that I think you are being a very good friend indeed.

I feel for your friend but I do have a different way of seeing this. At the moment her husband does sound like he is working very hard & long hours just to pay for their lifestyle. He probably doesn't feel like he has any quality of life particularly. I don't expect they have any 'us' time and I really think that an additional child is going to detract from this even more.

I don't condone the way he is 'blackmailing' her but he probably feels very under pressure. If the existing children already go to private school then you can't exactly penalise the 4th one so that's more money that has to be found when that child is of school age. The poor bloke has probably looked at his finances and thought there's no end to this and I'm the one that has to provide it. Private school can be £6k a year upwards - that could be a very nice family holiday for 5 (or some nice weekends away for them as a couple) and he just sees himself on the treadmill providing the same for yet another child.

Not sure if I have put this very succinctly but blokes are very selfish, it won't be about the children, it will be about him and the fact that he's not getting the recognition/quality of life/time spent on him that he deserves. In fact in the long term if she has the baby personally I don't see the relationship surviving.

I'm sure I will be shot down for saying this but feel that someone needs to play devils advocate here.

meltedchocolate · 20/10/2011 13:17

Your poor friend :(

toptramp · 20/10/2011 15:01

He should be the one going to the clinic; to get the snip. i feel sorry for your friend being in this position. It happened to me. I kept baby and dumped the man!

toptramp · 20/10/2011 15:11

Why wouldn't it be fair to send baby no 4 to state school or even send all of them to state school? It's hardly the end of the world. So he won't be able to fund his posh house and porsch? Boo fucking hoo. It's about time he faces the real world and gets that snip asap.

MyBaby1day · 24/10/2011 08:03

So sad for your friend, i'de advise her to KEEP this baby and not have a termination...let him stand by it as it took him to make this child too and then for HIM to get the snip and make sure it doesn't happen again. No-one starves here in England and they'll cope. Larger families do cost more money-it's a fact but they'll have four and that's that, just because it's inconvenient for HIM doesn't mean he/she should lose it's life-how selfish!. Poor lady, hope she keeps the baby. All the best.

HeadlessLamAAARRRGHHHH · 24/10/2011 08:48

Winky, apologies for not seeing this thread before this morning. Let me tell you about pain after vasectomy: there is hardly any. I recall being the only one out of 13 to have a local anaesthetic when I had mine. I even drove home. The snip happened on a Thursday, I was back in the saddle on Saturday , and drove the 30 or so miles to work on the Monday. And back. Obviously. They ached for a few days, but there was no real pain, and I say that as a confirmed coward.

Original poster

WinkyWinkola · 25/10/2011 08:06

So. My friend went for a CVS appointment yesterday. There was no heartbeat. They think the baby died at eleven weeks. She is distraught. She's booked in for D+C today.

This to her is the disaster.

She has lost three babies in this way. Chromosomal issues but this time she says she cannot bear to find out why the baby died.

OP posts:

WardrobeYeti · 25/10/2011 08:46

That's absolutely awful. Despite everything that's happened I hope her husband can now step up to the plate and offer her the support and love she needs during this time. He needs to be there for her and make amends for his behaviour while she grieves. I don't know how I'd feel towards my partner if I miscarried a baby he wanted aborted, but I think I would be filled with anger and it could be terribly damaging for them if he doesn't respect how she felt about this baby. I hope she'll be okay.

spendthrift · 25/10/2011 08:54

there are several counselling services she could go to and Relate may be able to give names as well. She'll need support which ever way it goes. Poor her and good for you to be there for her.

MrsDreadfullyMorbidMausoleum · 25/10/2011 09:15

Your poor friend. Terrible enough to lose a baby, I can't imagine knowing that it was the outcome my partner wanted.

Original poster

WinkyWinkola · 25/10/2011 09:21

He cried, she said. And asked her if they could now pull together and work through this. Now that there is no baby.

I'm so for her. He won't change. She's a mess. She's having counselling and Relate.

OP posts:

AnyPhantomFucker · 25/10/2011 09:25

I am so, so sorry for your friend.

I think I hate her partner. I am not surprised she is a mess.

StewieGriffinsMom · 25/10/2011 09:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RoxyRobin · 25/10/2011 12:04

I'm so sorry. I hope her husband does have the sensitivity to be appropriately contrite - not the "Well, I've said I was sorry - what more can I do?" variety of contrition, either.

You are a very caring friend.

Original poster

WinkyWinkola · 25/10/2011 12:08

Well if he doesn't step up to the plate and support her, perhaps she will exact revenge for insisting he has a vasectomy and being very brisk and unsupportive afterwards.

OP posts:

CiderwithBuda · 25/10/2011 12:09

Oh God. What an outcome. Your poor friend.

And in a way I feel sorry for her DH too. I would bet that he will end up feeling incredibly guilty. Well I would hope so anyway.

pinkdelight · 25/10/2011 12:25

Me too, Jane.

It sounds, from all the info about the porshe etc, that he likes living an illusion and finally this little ball of reality is about to shatter all of that. He can either get real and embrace the consequences of his actions, whether that's having the baby or at least being more engaged and supportive of your friend through the terrible decision-making process. Or he can retreat into his delusion, which is no use to your friend and she will ultimately be better off in the real world. Maybe this child, if they have it, won't be able to go to private school. Is that such a hardship, really? I think you sound like a good, grounded friend and just listening will be a huge help to her.

Hopefully the Relate sessions will make a difference, but time is such a factor and blaming him for things like the lack of vasectomy aren't going help right now (one could go around in circles - why didn't she then get sterilised etc).

pinkdelight · 25/10/2011 12:27

So sorry, Winky, for some reason my PC hadn't updated so I didn't see your latest post. I really hope that your friend can get through this okay, somehow.

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