I just can't decide what to do

[TiredOfGoingRoundInCircles]

I've lurked on here for a while, but I think it's time to post now, will try to be brief ...
Have been married a long time, 4 dcs, youngest now 16.

About 7 years ago I caught H having an internet affair, by finding a 'live' chat window. At the time, I didn't know that 'internet affairs' existed, or 'emotional affairs'. I was extremely shocked and hurt but when confronted (immediately) he claimed that she'd never spoken to him like that before and agreed he would stop talking to her.

A few days later he said he'd done the deed. Things hadn't been good between us leading up to this discovery. I did a little detective work, found chat logs and bascially he was lying, I was devastated. Without telling him about the logs, I said to him that I thought there was more to it than he was saying. He then confessed all.

He'd 'met' her through one of those sites for married people who want affairs. He also said he'd had text girlfriends for around 6 or 7 years previous to that, i.e. 14 years ago. He was extremely upset about it. He said he'd never met any of the txt gfs in real life, nor the www OW. He said it wasn't real, it was just on the www and he wasn't going to meet anyone in real life.

Weirdly, we then fell in love all over again, behaving like a couple of teenagers. However, during that time (about 2 years), he refused to cut contact with www OW and did go on to meet her in real life, with my reluctant agreement and his promise that he would tell me when he met her so I didn't spend all my time worrying that he was with her. He told me the first time they met, but not the 2nd (I found out and went ballistic). He met her a couple of times after that -just for lunch, he says they didn't have sex and I believe him (for reasons that I can't go into here).

She seemed to fade away, then about 4 years ago (I think) I caught him txting another woman, he'd met her in a forum that he uses a lot. Again I was really hurt, but knowing that the other one had come to nothing, dealt with it slightly better. Again he went on to meet her in real life. I asked to meet her myself hoping that it might stop me worrying about what was going on. She agreed, she said they were just friends, we got on very well.

Sometime during all this, I had also found out that he had profiles on quite a lot of those websites for married people to have affairs. Bascially his profiles said that he was happily married, loved me, didnt want to leave, but was looking for extra marital sex. I was really unhappy about this and he told me at some point that he'd stopped using them.

Around a year ago, I found an email, quite by chance (too painful to keep detecting), affectionate from yet another woman. When I asked him about it, she'd contacted him through one of the websites he said he stopped using. This was crunch point for me becaue he'd told me he'd stopped using them. Before this, more or less, he'd told me the truth about things (as far as I know). I said I was going to move out for a while, I felt humiliated, stupid and I wanted to know if I could function as a person on my own (I lived at home until I got married, so have always been with him). This was to be a temporary separation for around 3 to 6 months.

Before I moved out, we had a long discussion, he says he can't stop pursuing other women and doesn't want to, he thinks he may want to sleep with someone else, but is not sure about this. However, he says he loves me, I'm 'the one', he wants to stay with me and wouldn't ever leave me for any of them. He's a kind man, he's loving towards me, when he's not sad and depressed about the whole situation (which is quite often) and I'm 99% sure he won't leave me and will look after me. I believe that he genuinely wants to make me happy, but he's addicted to this pursuit of women. I'm just exhausted by all this, as is he, I said he could sleep with other women if that's what he really wants. I asked him how he would feel if I did the same and at first he said he wouldn't mind, then he said he would mind, but he would understand why I felt I needed to.

At the moment, I live about 10 mins walk from home. I call in at home most days to make sure DS4 is OK (DD1 and DS2 left home now, DD3 at home but rarely there). I make a meal most days. I see H nearly every day, I mostly stay over at the weekend and we have been on a couple of short breaks. He's still loving and kind towards me (when not depressed), I have kind of 'withdrawn' and I find it quite difficult to be emotionally close to him which is breaking my heart. I've been living on my own for 6 months now and I need to find some sort of resolution to this. I think that I want to move back home, I miss the kids, but I think if I do that I will need to ask him to leave. I can't bear the thought of splitting properly, but the anxiety and worry about what he's doing is really not good for me and he won't be open about it because it upsets me and he hates all the emotional trauma.

If only I could find a way to deal with what he's doing everything would be OK. I know you will probably all tell me just to dump him, but I feel I have such a lot to lose :(

Have told H that I want to talk to him later today, feeling kind of relieved but nervous, I've written down what I want to say because I know I'm going to get upset :(
Wish me luck :-S

Oh Tired...for 'upset' read 'toddler-tantrums-because-he-can't-have-his-own-way'.

For 'extremely tolerant man' read 'a-chance-to-get-in-some-computer-wanking'.

I'd love to know what you've written down. I bet it's not what any of us would have written...but I sincerely wish you the best of luck x

TWG - you made laugh :)
I will tell you the gist when I've talked to him (but may not get back to PC til tomorrow). You may be pleasantly surprised, and thank you x

Tolerant? He was probably encouraging you to be 'less dependent on him' as a way of making it easier for him to form attachments to other women.

You've had some excellent advice here. You wouldn't be posting if you thought that this was all OK and you thought we'd all say 'it's OK, you can work it out'. Your defence on him seems to be a bit like sticking your fingers in your ears and going 'LALALALALALA' - which is understandable. You've built a life with this man, and he's basically taken the piss out of something that you thought was special and we're all effectively saying he's not the wonderful man you think he is, he is actually a shit. I wouldn't want to hear that either.

Do you think it's fair on your children to see you being treated like this? They form opinions on what relationships should be like from you and DH. Go home and ask him to leave, or take DC3 and 4 to your place. You say you miss the children but two have already left home, and one is rarely there (as you said earlier) so even if you did move back, the busy-ness of family life that was once there and probably helped cushion you from the impact of DH's actions won't be there. One day DC3 and 4 will move out and you'll be stuck in a house with a man who you will never be able to trust.

OK, had a long discussion with H yesterday evening. I had written down what I wanted to say, the book I refer to is the Shirley Glass one, the gist of what I said was this:

"I don't think we can continue as we are, I have been reading a book about infideltiy and giving our relationship a lot of thought.

Emotional affairs, i.e. those without sex are as real and traumatic when discovered as those with sex whether they are on the internet or in real life.
(I said this because I don't think he 'gets' that at all)

To be able to heal and re-establish trust, the betrayed partner needs to know and be certain that the involved partner has cut all contact with the affair partner.

One of the most important things that is necessary for healing a relationship and re-establishing trust is just not available to me. This thing is the knowledge that all contact has been cut with the affair partner. I realise that there is not just one affair partner in your case, but many, and that you are seeking more.

I don't have openness and honesty from you. I feel that because you say you love me and that 'I'm the one', I should be able to deal with the negative emotions that your behaviour causes me.

I have become an obsessive, paranoid, withdrawn and needy person. I have lost my self-respect and my dignity, I hate the person I have become. At the moment, I just can't manage to do what you are asking of me"

Then I said that I wanted to come home, but that I wanted him to leave. I wanted to continue financially as we are at least until DS4 has left home, at which point hopefully things will have become clearer between us and we would be able to sort everything out appropriately. I said that I wasn't asking him to leave for the whole time up until DS4 leaves, but at least for a few months so we could see how we both felt about it. I also quoted a couple of specific examples that had set alarm bells ringing for me recently. and I've lent him the book to read for himself.

He didn't say much. He said that he'd already really decided that he needed to go and he agreed to everything that I'd asked. I asked him if he disagreed with anything that I'd said, and he said no.

So then we shared a bottle of wine and a curry, we really do get on well which is why I'm sad about this . But anyway, this morning we decided where he would go and the current plan is that we both move next weekend. We both agree that this is the right thing to do.

I just feel relieved and sad all at the same time.

Seems like a good plan to me. Well done . First step in regaining your battered self-respect. Do please make sure he actually goes, doesn't come up with some reason/excuse he can't at the last moment.

I'm glad you're going home, where you should be, and that he'll be the one feeling the consequences.

I hope it works out the way you'd like.

Well done Tired. Think you'll need a namechange soon. Stay strong and avoid those curry-and-wine moments for a while - they just prolong the heartache for you and the cake-and-eat-it comforts for him.

Thanks everyone.
Quite upset this morning, I don't want to 'post and run', but I'm not sure I can post any more about this here. H told me yesterday that the OW I met in RL phoned him because she has been reading this thread :( She's in regular contact with him anyway, but phoned to ask if he was OK because she was worried that I would follow your advice and was very indignant about the things you said about him on here.
Just don't know what to say now :(

Don't let him guilt-trip you for posting on here. If anything you have defended him far more than he deserves. I for one am glad my posts and those of others have made her feel 'indignant'.

There are other ways you can post again if you continue to need support and I'm sure ladies on here wouldn't ignore a pm.

Good luck, and if your 'D' P is reading this I stand by everything I've said. Nasty, nasty man.

Good grief. Well she may be indignant because she knows him in RL and the other posters here don't - but so what? This is your thread, Tired, about your relationship from your perspective - and if posters find H's conduct lacking and agree that you need support in changing things, good for you. For heaven's sake, he has been looking outside the relationship for years and years for whatever support he thinks he needs.

I hope you continue to post, Tired, even if you have to namechange - you will need the ongoing support as you set up your new life. You really, really deserve better than you have been getting in your relationship all these years.

Thanks TWG and SecondRow
I know you'll probably tell me off for defending H, but I don't think he was trying to guilt trip me, he just thought I should know that one of the OW is reading all this, I think he did the right thing in telling me that.

He has organised a van for this w/e for both of us to move, so all being well, I'll be back home soon.

It honestly makes me sad to see that having read about your pain and the awful situation you're in, she rings up to ask if HE is okay? He is the one that created this situation through his own behaviour, and honestly- infidelity draws criticism in almost any situation. Repeated infidelity, lies and betrayal is going to receive worse. Why would you be indignant about that?

I hope moving back in goes smoothly for you.

thanks pjf :)
Invited all the DC round this evening and told them that I'm moving back home, but that H is moving out. They all seemed ok about it. So all I have left to do is pack my few bits up and move back home on Saturday, still have my fingers crossed that nothing goes wrong.

You'll be fine, Tired. I loved the phrase above from catsrus about reclaiming the heart of the family. It rings so true and that is what you are doing now. In fact it sounds like a really good mantra to repeat to yourself any time you feel nervous or worried. I am reclaiming the heart of this family! :) Good luck.

he just thought I should know that one of the OW is reading all this

Hope she's taken note of the fact that she is merely just one of his OW and she'll be deluding herself if she thinks that she's got any chance of being the only other woman in his life.

I'm so pleased you're going back to your home, Tired - it's where you need to be and where you should have been all along.

What's that Dorothy Parker saying? Something on the lines of 'Time heals all wounds - and wounds all heels'. Karma is a wondrous thing.

thanks izzy :)