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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

long post re problems with my wife

46 replies

rshipstuff · 28/09/2011 14:11

Ok so here goes, advice sought re my wife and her emotional affairs, apologies in advance for length, probably far too much detail too.

Married 10 years ago aged 20 due to her as my girlfriend's unplanned pregnancy. She is a speaker of English as a second language.

Came back to England after son was born and had to strive to make money and she found it very isolated at first but got on with it. Gradually financial situation improved, she made friends mostly from her own country.

I am a computer programmer and not the most emotionally demonstrative/romantic type but she always gave me her love and showed her love and respect for me although there were times when we got stale, we were always reinvigorated when she returned from time in her home country.

I spent over the years a lot of time on the computer and we didn't really have much 'quality time' at home as I'm a bit of an internet addict/also quite often working on the computer. However I always pushed to go out with the kids on the weekend as its healthier out of the house away from the computer.

I used to work in the office but my work ended in 2008 and since then I've worked from home on the computer, which has given me more time to pick up the kids, take them to the park, etc. I make a lot of money from my business and we have several foreign holidays per year etc.

For about the last two years my wife's discovered Facebook which has grown to occupy all of her free time at home.

We had a second child before I left my job and as she's got older my wife has become more short-tempered, whereas I've probably got more chilled out as I've matured (I think also she's also become more Europeanized). Also we send our children to a private school and my wife doesn't really feel she fits in.

Anyway the last time she came back from her country, which was last year, we didn't really feel any spark as we had done before.

Subsequently she went to a birthday party of her friend from her country, in Frankfurt, late last year and while she was there she made a connection with a man there that she previously knew but was only friends. I wasn't aware of this at the time, but when she returned she was calling him daily and they were sending 'love chats' on facebook (not sexual, more romantic). I paid no regard to her facebook activities but on the night of our wedding anniversary after a meal at a very posh restaurant we went back to my parent's house briefly and she sat on a chair chatting on facebook on her iphone. We remarked on the way home that we were quite cold with each other but we got home late and she went straight to bed while I went to the toilet and took the laptop.

When I opened the laptop she'd left her facebook logged in from earlier in the day and there were all the chats that she had been making to one of her female friends basically revealing how she was having this emotional affair with this man.

I didn't say anything immediately but tried to gather more evidence before confronting her. After a day or two I did so and burst in on her in the middle of chatting on facebook with him, she tried to deny it all, so I showed her the print out of the chat with the friend. I insisted she broke it off but she said she wanted to stop it gently so as to avoid future bad feeling with him. I said that she must stop but about a week later she called him, her excuse was that she was trying to wind it down. This was bollocks, I later found out she had SMSed him immediately upon my finding out. Anyway we repeated this charade about three times in total.

Eventually I think the other man decided it wasn't a good idea or I'm not sure but anyway it came to an end. So we continued without any real spark of romance although we did make an effort to do some things together basically we spent all our time at home on our respective computers.

We went back to her country again recently and spent six weeks there. We basically spent our time apart from each other and were not really happy in each other's company as we both had plenty of other people to spend time with. However on leaving it was just going to be the four of us again. In the airport my wife made three calls to a name I didn't recognise at some expense, and also refused to spend the family time my daughter wanted, because she wanted to go onto the internet.

When we got back to the UK, I should at this point mention that after the emotional affair previously I ended up secretly installing spyware on the computer to track what she was doing (I don't know what the rights and wrongs of this are but I should add that I previously always trusted my wife 100% and she spent a lot of time with male friends, who I understood to be just that - friends, and when we had been apart I never had any doubt that she was faithful to me nor ever questioned her with regard to men prior to the episode on our wedding anniversary night). So when she came back I found out very quickly, thanks to the spyware, that she was doing the same kind of thing, conducting an emotional affair by phone/facebook, and I was able to put a real name to the fake name she had assigned to the number she had called from her phone.

She is not as computer adept as I, but obviously having returned and wanting to pursue this emotional affair she was now quite paranoid (having been repeatedly caught previously by me on the basis of phonebill entries etc. but in fact due to the spyware), so she changed all her passwords for facebook, email, etc. A few days after returning I confronted her and told her that because of her behaviour I knew she was up to the same things again. She tried playing the same game as before where she would not admit to anything unless I accused her of it directly. I told her I would not go through that again and that she should just leave because she was lying to me over and over and that there was no trust.

So at this point she came back at me with my faults and we said 'we have to change, you need to stop contacting this guy, I need to be more helpful in the house with the children/cleaning up'. But nothing really changed. I drove her to an event on the Sunday (we had this discussion on the Friday), I was driving home and she was playing with her phone and uploaded an old picture of him onto facebook. She thought I only knew that she was contacting someone, but didn't realise I knew the identity, but of course me seeing her doing this made me feel quite bitter.

The next day I went out to run some errands and pick up the kids from school. She was mowing the grass. When I came back she was on facebook exchanging smalltalk with the man. I was quite fed up with this and after she went to bed I called him (as well as several friends of his/ours as he was hanging up the phone and playing silly games) and told him to back off and leave her alone as she was a married woman.

She found out that I had done this in the morning and we didn't speak for several days but she agreed (by SMS) to go to a Relate session with me. We did this and went to the session and I detailed what I have said above and then she said that she didn't love me and hadn't done for some time and that she was fed up with me being at home, and basically the session was quite angry, but we said we wanted to try 'for the children'.

After this we went and talked for quite a while in a coffee shop, something we noted we'd failed to do previously, and this time things were more serious than the previous attempt. We went home, and my wife having just failed to get on a local college course, (to get her a career and some self-respect) partly because she was still chatting on facebook to the boyfriend when she was supposed to be preparing for her interview, we basically signed her up for a (very expensive) private course, which will keep her busy five days a week and is also quite fulfilling.

I'd said that I would try to be more considerate, wash the dishes, etc., that she would try to stop spending all her time on facebook, and that we would both speak to each other in softer more loving tones (rather than being brusque), that we would both correct each other's negative behaviours (rather than having us both reinforce each others laziness), and I think we tried this for about a week before I went away this weekend to visit friends.

So I came back from the trip and I come home and I'm thinking 'hmm I don't really miss my wife' (or have any feelings for her). I get home quite late she's already asleep, tired from her course, so I check what she's been up to while I've been away, and basically she's contacted the boyfriend on facebook several times and also spent an hour and a half on the phone to him (although she called to his friend's mobile in an effort to avoid detection by me). She's also making more effort to cover her tracks with 'Firefox private browsing' and also deleting history (she doesn't realise that this is completely futile due to the spyware).

So here I am having resolved to myself last week to try just a little bit harder and keep trying to love her, even if she rebuffs me or is a little short with me (which in the recent past we have both been, on a regular basis, with each other), but the continued contact with this guy is something I find hard to accept (btw she has always tried the line (with the previous man too) that she's only talking, she's not having sex with them, to which I've pointed out that she speaks to plenty of men but she doesn't send 'I love you' 'no I love you more' to these men).

So..... I can just keep going trying to rekindle things by whatever means possible and overlook this (I've no doubt it will continue in the short term at least), or I can ask her in accusing terms about the hour-and-a-half phone call to the best friend of the boyfriend which will of course only heighten her paranoia and bitterness.

In the ideal world she's a nice, attractive woman who is the mother of my two children and a third of my life so far, and we'd both love each other very much, having worked through the struggles to get to a position where we are extremely comfortable and should be very happy, with me having time + money to be a better husband/father than was possible when we were striving to get ahead. But of course the reality is there's no spark or affection between each other and while I tolerated a loveless sexless marriage for a long time, the unfaithfulness is a dealbreaker (but hopefully an incentive to resolve the lovelessness and sexlessness???).

OP posts:
rshipstuff · 30/09/2011 09:33

Basically the problem is as I see it peasandlove that she has no love or respect for me. She's an attractive woman, and easy to got along with for most people, although not with me for some time. If she loved me there would be no problem, but she doesn't.

She spent this morning being conspicuously passive-aggressive to me before suddenly piping up at ten past nine that she needed a lift to work to which I pointed out that it wasn't very reasonable to spend the morning being rude to me and then asking a favour. She said that she would take the car and I said I needed it to take the kids out to the lake after school so she said 'well drop me off then', which I ended up doing.

I asked her if she would come with us to the lake when she'd finished at college, and she said she had too many things to do.

OP posts:
DuelingFanjo · 30/09/2011 10:14

look, she doesn't love you. Do you love her?

don't you think that maybe she has had too many chances. If it were me I would come clean about the spyware - I mean what's the point in having it if you're not going to act on it? Sounds like a slow prolonged torture to me.

peasandlove · 30/09/2011 21:51

I doubt I'd come clean about the spyware. To me, that's just confirmation of suspicions, the same as us women would grab their DH's cellphone to check it when he becomes all secretive and hiding it.
I think if she doesnt love or respect you, that that cant be regained. Sometimes you have to lose something before you realise what you had in the first place.

I was in a 7yr relationship, and whilst I loved and respected him, we had little interest in each other. I was also very addicted to online activities and whilst I wasnt doing quite what your wife is, I wouldnt have given up what I was doing, even if he had begged. We were together from 19 and 22 and we just never worked on it and it fizzled out, with me leaving in the end. I went on to regret and miss him for many years after that. We never had children to complicate things though.

What do you want to happen rshipstuff?

rshipstuff · 01/10/2011 10:06

Well I took the kids out as promised yesterday she seemed in a better mood when I came back, I'm glad I've removed the constant facebok feed of this man she was following.

Had a cuddle in bed this morning, which was nice.

We are going out with her friend + friend's DS today.

Can't necessarily always tell what's going on in her head aside from her actions, the spyware is my insurance almost if she's stringing me along for whatever reason....

OP posts:
rshipstuff · 22/10/2011 01:13

Well latest thing was she called me from college today to ask me to buy some things.

A minute later she rang back, I said 'hello, hello', but nobody there. After a few seconds I heard what sounded like her talking on the phone to someone, in her language. Then after a minute the line went dead.

Didn't say anything when she got home but I just asked her now and she gave me the pitful excuse that she was demonstrating to her classmates how to speak in her language. I told her she was lying.

I tend to think she has got a second phone that she is hiding from me. I am quite surprised at her level of deviousness though, she would have to hide it possibly at college and not charge it at home. But then it's quite possible, looking at our bank account she's withdrawn £600-£700 (this given that she uses cards to pay for everything) and she's not really any position to spend that much money given that she's at college all day.

OP posts:
BluddyMoFo · 22/10/2011 01:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

izzywhizzysfritenite · 22/10/2011 01:36

Your marriage is a sham; it's in name only and there is no love between you.

I suggest you forget the church, plan to take your dc to Florida for Christmas and ask your not so dear w if she wishes to accompany you or would prefer to go to her home country for the vacation.

It may be that if she's stuck in the frozen north thinking of you and the dc having a whale of the time in the sun, she may begin to understand what she stands to lose if she continues to have infatuations with other men as, presumably, her standard of living will drop if you are not subsidising the current lifestyle she enjoys.

However, as I doubt that any change will occur in her feelings towards you, I suggest you make an appointment now with a solicitor who is up to speed on divorce and family law so that you know where you stand with a view to getting the ball rolling in the New Year.

BTW, it occurs to me that you can most probably make a small fortune offering your covert knowledge to others who find themselves in the same situation as yourself, but who do not have the necessary skills to obtain incontrovertible proof of their ohs' emotional or actual infidelity.

rshipstuff · 22/10/2011 02:14

Well I'm a bit stumped about the phone call today tbh. I just went through her bag and her purse and could find no trace of any phone top-ups or anything of that kind.

I know her friend advised her about calling cards so I guess she has the phone at college and leaves it there. Slightly annoyed that I haven't found the smoking gun (on this occasion).

OP posts:
izzywhizzysfritenite · 22/10/2011 02:35

The smoking gun's somewhat immaterial when the smell of cordite's all around.

When the receipt for, or details of, her 'secret phone' float to the surface I guess you'll be able to interfere with communications one way or another.

In the meantime, I also guess that she married and became a mother too young and what she's doing is an attempt to extend her carefree youth.

At least I hope it is simply a knee-jerk reaction to reaching the 30yr milestone, rather than a reaction to years of neglect from you.

hauntedstateofmind · 22/10/2011 03:27

This all sounds very sad OP. Have you started the marriage course yet? Is it helping?

bellsring · 22/10/2011 09:13

OP, I feel that you are the one who is doing all the trying to make your marriage work; I think she is being quite manipulative in some ways as she has a partner who is so committed to make it work. I don't think her heart is in it at all, and I don't mean that in a 'love' way, she doesn't, from what you have said, seem to show any real commitment to improve things with you.

It takes two to make a marriage work (the conviction of two people); you can't do it on your own. I hope things improve for all of you.

niceguy2 · 22/10/2011 09:44

Dude....What is it you are actually after here?

There's no happy ending here for you. Whether you man up and call it a day now. Or wait until she's ready to leave you, your marriage is over.

The trust has gone, without that there is no marriage. Unless she's willing to cut ties completely with this guy (which she's shown she's not) then you can never hope to rebuild any form of trust. Trust is an incredibly hard thing to recover once lost.

You need to focus on the next steps rather than continually spying on your wife. It's become an obsession in it's own rights and akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

MangoMonster · 22/10/2011 09:59

Agree with niceguy. Sorry it's such a sad situation for you.

ike1 · 22/10/2011 10:06

She sounds really selfish. Consider the relationship over, bid your time for a bit, seek legal advice get your arsenal in order so you get the best deal possible and get divorced.

rshipstuff · 22/10/2011 22:55

Maybe I should start a new thread in the divorce forum.

Don't really know how it's done, can anyone give me an idea re asset splitting?

Assets: we live in a rented house, have a substantial amount of cash in the bank.
Custody: I work from home with flexible hours, don't have a formal income as such, she's on a college course for the next few months and has no job, she takes the kids to school, I pick them up and I take them to their activities; on weekends we go out together.

What do I do to get rid of her in terms of separate living arrangements etc.?

OP posts:
MrHeadlessMan · 22/10/2011 23:13

Here's the thing: you're going to split up from this woman. It's going to happen.

Find a divorce lawyer, preferably someone recommended. Find out how to set things up in the best way for the inevitable split. I would not be surprised if she has already done this.

Good luck. It's going to be awful for a while but eventually you will be back on your feet. And able to find someone you can trust and respect to share your life with.

MrHeadlessMan · 22/10/2011 23:15

The fact that you work and she doesn't will work against you. She can argue that you support her and she needs maintenance.

Find a lawyer. And notify your bank that you have a domestic dispute, so neither party can withdraw funds without consent of the other b

izzywhizzysfritenite · 23/10/2011 03:23

And notify your bank that you have a domestic dispute, so neither party can withdraw funds without consent of the other

I don't advise drawing your bank's attention to the state of your marriage at least until you have discussed your situation with a lawyer and know exactly where you stand financially but, in the meantime, I would suggest that you clear out any joint accounts leaving a mimimal balance so that she can't start amassing funds at your expense.

You may need to set up another account with a different bank to keep any surplus funds on deposit - do you have an accountant?

FrauHolle · 23/10/2011 20:10

sad story and I feel your pain OP.

re the divorce I suggest you go for it sooner than later as it might be your wife has already consulted a lawyer.

with her behaviour I would definitely go for a quicker divorce and cite her adulterous behaviour as the reason for the split.

you have 6 months from when you found a
out about current affair to go legal on her otherwise you 'agree' with her behaviour and are seen to tolerate it.

PS: I would not tell her about the spyware as it will just end in tears

MrHeadlessMan · 23/10/2011 20:33

Clearing out the bank accounts would not only be an arsehole move, but it will probably be seriously questioned by the judge/mediator in the financial settlement process. He shouldn't let her do it either which is why I suggest contacting the bank.

izzywhizzysfritenite · 23/10/2011 21:36

What you appear to have overlooked, MrHM, is that at present no divorce proceedings have been insitituted. In that event, providing he submits honest accounts of his finances, he has nothing to fear.

Furthermore, the OP's w recently withdrew a large sum from a joint bank account without prior consulation. Given that the OP suspects his w of duplicity with men from her home country, I cannot see that any objection can legitimately be raised should he exercise due caution in arranging the family finances, which he alone provides, in such a way as to ensure that his dc cannot be taken out of the UK without prior notice.

I would suggest that as precaution, the OP ensures that the dcs passport are kept under lock and one key holder.

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