I have a very needy and jealous friend and I'm losing my patience rapidly.

[TidyDancer]

I couldn't think where else to put this thread. I need some advice about how to handle this before I reach the point of no return with this friendship.

I have known my friend for about ten years. We went through a period of no contact for a number of years, not for any particular reason, we just didn't really stay in touch. There were no personal insults, no drama of any kind, we just weren't in contact. Over the past two years, since the birth of my friend's DS, we have been in close contact. I am the only one of her friends who also has children and this has been a defining factor in us being close again.

The problem is, my friend has become massively clingy and needy with me. I pride myself on being patient and loyal with my friends, but I am coming to the very end of my tether with this friend. She really does ask too much of me, in a lot of ways. She will often want to see me a few times a week, and I simply don't have the time to see her that often. I have other friends, I have two DCs and I have DP. Sometimes, having my friend is like having another full time relationship, she expects that much from me. When we do spend time together, much of it is spent with me diffusing some crisis or another with her (never big things, btw), so I don't really feel that either of us gets to enjoy each others company. She has very little patience with her DS, so I get left with much of the care of him when we are together. She will swear at him or at something he's done, and she generally gets angry and upset very easily.

I am aware that depression of some kind does pay a significant part in how she is.

The latest problem I have had with her is that she is extremely jealous that I spend time with a mutual friend when she doesn't. She is jealous of me and this friend, that we see each other without her being present. I don't like having to lie about when I see our friend, but I can't handle the guilt trips or the dramatic scenes that occur when she is not invited along to lunches etc, so we both have to lie about it. Whenever she does come along, the whole thing is about her, how terrible her life is, how crap everything is for her, how no one ever helps her (absolute bullshit, btw), etc. She drains every bit of energy from you.

Is there any way I can salvage this friendship? I feel like I'm going through the motions with her because I feel bad for her DS that he doesn't have contact with children other than mine, and she does rely on me to be there for her to talk to about her problems. But I don't feel like it's a real friendship, more like a relationship in its death throes. Despite this, my friend has a really big heart and I don't think she has any real concept of how utterly exhausting it is to be around her.

I know I must sound completely heartless, and that this is a really epic post, but I just need some advice. I would like to keep this friendship going, but I need to know if there is a decent way of 'managing' my friend when she becomes so draining.

TIA.

This might sound a bit random, but the thing that stuck out for me in your post was that she gets angry with and swears at your son. This is a fleeting detail - and may not seem a massive thing in the whole story of this woman in your life (or even be that regular). But my point is: in a way, she can abuse you all she likes (if you're up for it) but does she really get to behave like this with a child? If you challenge nothing else about her, i think you should start standing up for your son when you are with your friend and firmly but immediately explaining you won't allow her to behave like that with him; you regret not saying anything about it in the past, but it won't be happening again now or you'll have to leave. That however upset she is, it is not alright to take it out on a child.

i suspect that will actually have the desired effect. Either by some miracle it will allow an opening for her to start engaging with you about her behaviour and issues in general, or she will not enjoy your challenge and implied criticism of herself and move the circus on.

This also gives you a point from which you can feel comfortable to challenge her ingress into her life and not a bad friend - there is everything morally and personally defensible about protecting your son from thinking it's ok to be cruel to other people if you're upset, and being abused himself that way. Even if the person you are challenging is a friend.

I think omaoma speaks a lot of sense. If nothing else, not allowing that treatment of your son will help you start to redraw boundaries around what you are and are not willing to put up with.

Plus, it's good for your DS and maybe even good for hers, who knows?

It is really nice that you feel for her ds, but the frank truth is that her ds isn't your responsibility to take on. It is convenient for her that you spend time dealing with him when she feels she can't, but realistically the impact you will have long-term will be minimal.

I agree with others that people like this usually have ample resources to actually get on in life and if you slowly withdraw, she won't go down the plughole, she'll be ok.

I love my friends too but if any of them treated me in this way, that would be it. I'm a believer in people showing their true colours when they're very stressed. If they rant and abuse me, that tells me I'm not of value to them.

Thank you for the vote of confidence Hatti! However, this situation has been on my mind re:

OP, or anyone faced with anything like this, please do not be harsh when you are setting a boundary. The person who is behaving like this is very damaged - granted, also manipulative and a PITA - and it is essential that when setting a boundary you show empathy, whilst holding the boundary. You don't have to be OTT but be kind! it can be very tough to be faced with a boundary when life is out of control, it can be excruciatingly painful - so please, please be kind if you are in the position where you have to set a boundary/boundaries.

Some people are manipulative and don't care how much trouble they are causing other people, but an awful lot do care but are desperate - and are also extremely sensitive to rejection.

Most people are sensitive to rejection.

I think in a friendship like this, it's a catch-22. You want to show kindness but every shred of that is taken and somehow used by the other person and not a lot given back in return. You don't want to be brutal and unkind, precisely because you are dealing with a damaged person as SpringyDaffs says, but even protecting yourself and your time is going to be turned into a drama.

Is the kindest thing really just to carry on giving and being used...just because the person is damaged? Surely that's not workable, in any useful way? Springydaffs, what do you think is a good way of setting boundaries with a very depressed and needy person?

There are many shades of 'depressed and needy'. Most people are, of course, sensitive to rejection but a depressed/needy person has, usually, a damaged ego and is hyper-sensitive to rejection - and, ironically, attracts it constantly. Even, invites it.

Just a few ideas off the top of my head: most - not all - depressed/needy people have some very sound and valuable qualities and I would say, play to those. Imagine you are talking/relating to someone normal (awful word, but ygwim) - try it out, make out that you are talking/relating to someone you respect a great deal. A lot of posters have said that the d/n person they know/knew has some amazing qualities and are lovely people - play to that. Be genuine though - most of us know when we are being patronised.

A lot of d/n are extremely fragile and setting boundaries is tricky. If you talk to them like a selfish, naughty child then you will crush them. Underneath all that 'I can't cope!' behaviour is an adult who craves acceptance, love and respect - as we all do. Think of something that you need from and value in that person and utilise it. Try not to be blinded by the depression and neediness, as well as the reaction it engenders in us re: irritation, offence, guilt, obligation, responsibility, feeling overwhelmed - which is a lot more to do with us than to do with them and their behaviour. YOu are not responsible for their happiness but you can treat them with the respect you would anyone else. imo one way is to be natural re if they interrupt, interrupt them back saying 'hang on, let me just finish' and plough on with what you were saying.

imo we need to set boundaries with all relationships but in particular iwht the d/n person as they can be blind to boundaries because they are so caught up in their despair. Work out what boundaries you need to set beforehand and then, when you do set them (not necessarily verbally), be kind - mild - but unwavering. Some people say things like 'I'm giving you an hour', which I personally find offensive but maybe sometimes this is appropriate and works (though I'm not convinced) - it depends who you're dealing with re there are as many variations of d/n as there are people. Underneath all that despair and sucking you dry is a person just like you and me - call to it, that normal, balanced person. If that is appropriate. Some d/n people couldn't give a fuck about you and you have to gauge that - if you are dealing with one of those then yes, set boundaries by walking away. Most (imo) do care about you and want the relationship to be equal, want to be valued/valuable and trusted.

You could even discuss boundaries together re what you both want from the relationship. If they say something that is unreasonable, inappropriate or that you don't want to give then say so, but say it mildly. Don't act like you're the one with the upper hand: you could be in the same position one day - or you could've been, but life has dealt you a better hand.

However, if you are dealing with narcissism etc then nothing will work, nothing at all, and you can only walk away as they will destroy you and blame you. Again, there are shades of narcissism, which can also fluctuate - we all are narcissistic to some degree - and you have to gauge what you're dealing with.

don't know if that has made any sense at all and sorry for long post - writing late. I'd edit it but I'd be up for ever if I did.