Should I speak to my Dad about our relationship, can I make it better or will I make it worse?

[Eddas]

I have an on-going issue with my Dad and coul use some perspective. Sometimes things get blown up in your own head into bigger issues than they should be. I don't know how to approach the situation to make it better and make it what i'd like it to be.

so, a bit of background.

When I was young I had a stable family unit of me, brother, sister, mum and dad. Extended family was only really mum's parents and an aunt & family on mum's side. Dad's parents died when we were little and he wasn't close to his brother, although we saw him on occassion.

My mum died 8 years ago when I was 24. I was already married and living with my dh. A year later I had dd. Then in 2007 had ds.

My dad met his now wife under a year after mum died. I had no issue with this as such, obv it was very quick and for us (the dc) it was quite hard, but we all told Dad we were happy for him, told him yes it was quite quick for us but that was fine. I told him that I know it's quick for us but I appreciate from his pov losing mum was an entirely different scenario. He spent the winter months being quite dependant on my going round for dinnner, calling etc, which was fine, but I could see he was lonely, very very lonely and very unhappy. My brother was 17 when mum died and that year went on to complete his A-levels and just after Dad met hiw now wife (i'll call her sm for ease) went off to Uni, this was always his plan and I believe that Dad would have dreaded this. Being alone in our family home and not having anyone there everyday.

So it was hard but we all understood why it was quick.

I should point out too that SM has 2 children herself. So there are 5 children between SM and Dad.

That year I also had dd. I met the SM when I was heavily pg, so she always knew that with dad came 3 dc and gc.

They have never shown much interest in my dc, which I have grown to accept as just one of those things.

However, a few weeks ago Dad & sm offered to take my dc out for the day, I was shocked and pleased and wondered why, all of a sudden they offered? But I took it at face value, said yes and they all had fun.

The morning they had them for the day SM told me some news. Her dd is pg. Fantastic news! However, dh says that this is why they choose to take our dc out all of a sudden. He is convinced Dad/SM will be much more involved with this gc once it arrives and that I will become very angry that Dad has never bothered too much with my dc. Which if this comes true I will be cross, and I think justifiably.

There?s so much I could write about explaining the different ways I feel Dad?s dc are treated differently to SM?s dc, particularly her dd, but I don?t want to write an epic op

The latest niggle for me, is that SM?s dd & her dh moved house last Friday and I spoke to Dad thurs and her told me they were helping them move. Which is fine, but as I said to him I would?ve loved a bit of help when I moved but they never even mentioned it!! At the time it didn?t occur to me, but I have always grown up being taught that we are treated equally, me, sis & bro. Now it feels very much in favour of Sm?s dc.

My question really is how do I approach my Dad to discuss this? I would need SM to be there too so she knows how I feel. I need to do something because I have tried to leave it, to see if it naturally sorts itself out but I think sm's dd now being pg is going to bring things to a head and I would rather do it calmly than get so upset it all comes tumbling out. I have thought about writing to him so that I can say how I feel without being face to face or getting upset and angry.

I truly sometimes feel that since Mum died I have no parents, which is awful. Dad is here, very much here and the old Dad would be devastated to here I refer to him as old Dad and New dad. I appreciate that after Mum dying things had to change, I am glad he has found someone. They go off on holiday and are normally off here and there at weekends, which is fab. I just want him to either (a) see us more or (b) do the same to all of us.

They don?t treat us the same. One example being last Christmas. SM?s dc there Christmas day/boxing day. My bro and sis the day after boxing day, but me New year?s day and don?t think this was unintentional because I asked if we could come the same day as my bro and sis and was told no!! When I questioned it I was told that with all of us there it was too many people.Now don?t get me wrong it is a lot of people, but hardly a squeeze in a large 5 bed detached house!! They now appear to visit me/bro/sis in rotation, so I get one week, sis the next, and bro week after. This isn?t a regular thing, so I am not expecting them to take up 3 out 4 weekends every month with us dc, but we?re talking once or twice in a year that they visit or invite us round. Surely it?d be easier and less time consuming to see us all together? Bedlam at the time but all done and over in one week?

Sorry it?s long and muddled.

Plus, two in the hand is worth, erm... as I seem to be full of those today (whatever they're called - I forget)

I like you springy glad you found my thread and thanks for all your input

I keep thinking of things I have said in the past, and actually my sis did say SM is 'scared' of me, which by that I think she meant, like you said, she has realised I'm not gonna sit and just ignore the bullshit. I have been honest in the past with her, although had forgotten. She does talk alot of nonsense, which we largely ignore as her being unsure of us still and the fact she doesn't mean things to come out as they do.

Sorry to keep relaying stories but one great story comes to mind;

We were sat discussing what I would do work wise once my ML finished after having ds. I had been in a job for around 8/9 years at this point. You also need some background.

Of the 5 dc I am the only one not to go to uni, my sis was in a fab job well paid, my bro much the same, step-bother solicitor, step-sis primary school teacher.

So, sm turns round and says well, why don't you train as a teaching assitant. I said a few things to try and say no politely but she kept insisting. The more I thought about it the more pissed off i ws getting, so her dd is a teacher and I only good enough to be a TA, so instead of saying that I said 2 things 'well mum was a TA so that's a pretty good job' and 'anyway don't you think re-training as a TA is a step own from being an ACCOUNTANT?'!!!!!

Now, I know she probably meant well, was probably thinking about the holidays etc but how un-thinking was that, really?

My brother and sister were both 'oh my god you did not say that about Mum'!!

But she can naff off if she thinks that I don't realise it was a put down, meant or not. If I really wanted to go to uni I could have, I did have a place I choose not to go, but to her it's all about status. Infact dh recently got a promotion from salesman to assistant manager and my goodness was she pleased, imagine having to say her step-son in law is just a salesman!! No though to the fact he didn't really get much of a payrise because he wa stupidly highly paid for a salesman as he is bloody good at his job, but now he has 'status' and she actually did say those actual words.

after that story I must just cover myself, in case it wasn't clear, I have no issue with being a TA, I think they do a fab job and would be glad to do that job. As I said Mum was a TA and loved it.

what comes to mind is: fick, innit. She's either fick or she's a manipulative cah, one or the other. She may have been putting you down about the TA thing, or she may just be fick.

Whatever, you want your dad back. I wouldn't make a direct play for him. I know I said 'lock horns' but I don't mean directly lock horns with her over your dad - she's stamped MINE on his forehead by the sound of it. The TA comments et al, let them go over your head (as it sounds like you did). She may feel she's not been accepted, though it does sound like you have gone overboard to accommodate her in the family. Perhaps she knows she's smaller than you and you stooping down to squeeze into her space has offended her, though you have meant it kindly. If you are bigger than her then just be bigger - she'll have to deal with it, you don't have to flaunt it. What I'm saying is, if you are as big as you are, you won't feel so powerless or end up sobbing into the phone. You're bigger than her, clearly - and she knows it.

Anyway, back to the main theme: you want your dad back. Without being rude, I wouldn't tip-toe around with exaggerated respect for their marriage. Give her the attention she craves (to humour her I'm afraid), without being unkind but as a means to claim what's yours: your dad. You have to be canny I think.

I don't mean to make it sound easier than it is though. I know it's gut-wrenching.

you know what you may just have something there, it feels very much like WE have gone into HER family and follow what she wants. Really the families combined but I don't think she sees it that way.

What's become clear to me is that what needs to happen is for me (&bro & sis) to become more clear in how we expect to be treated. ie, treat Dad as though he's thick (he really isn't) and instead of expecting him to know what we want TELL HIM. Maybe softly or, in my own unique way bluntly!

BTW my brother says she's thick and he's a very clever man (I'm very proud of my brother and how he has dealt with everything, he was 17 when mum died and it must've been so hard for him). There's lots of reasons we think she's a bit thick, eg with the giving birth thing, dd was late, they had booked the hol for after the due date but and this is the 'thick' part, she's a bloody NURSE!!! she should have known babies are often late and to allow a few weeks either way. I think what she shows us is what she does with patients. ie, says the right things, smiles, all lovely and pleasant but what she doesn't seem to want is to get to know us and subsquently 7 years down the line this all seems very new and unhappy.

quick post - I've a friend who is a nurse and can be very thick about people. maybe nurses see so much suffering, people in extremis, that they kind of switch off somewhere. especially if they've done it for a long time. compassion fatique? though you may laugh bitterly at the idea that she could be compassionate, being as she's been so thick about you and your siblings' basic needs..

Oh dear-I am the sm in avery similar set up.I have dd and ds and my dh has ds1,dd and ds2.All the dc are married with dc now.The only one we have a problem with is my sd.It was fine at first but she seems consumed with jealousy of my dd and her realationship with my dh.Mine is a long,painful story and I dont want to threadjack this but please please dont fall out with your dad.My sd hasnt spoken to us for nearly 5 years now and we have no relationship with her ds.The rest of the family is close and loving even though my ds[and now sd live abroad],Your sm cant help feeling closest to her own dd you need to build a different kind of relationship with her.Its no use expecting your dad to be pro-active in this-its a 'man thing' you'll end up driving him away 'for a quiet life'.

With all due respect Pranma, I would hope it's clear from my posts I have no objection to SM being close to her dd. I have no desire for SM to be my mother. I was 24 when my mum died and as such would not appreciate SM trying to be Mum, which she never does. I do not want or need her to be my Mum and absolutely appreciate that her dd is hers and she will be more close. As I stated it would be great to be friends with SM but she doesn't appear to want that, she doesn't seem fussed about us (me, brother and sis) that much. What I do want however is some sort of acknowledgement from her that actually he is our Dad and as such should really put us first sometimes. Appreciate that he is not her dd's Dad. I suspect she wishes she'd met Dad earlier and he was the father of her dc because i'm not sure their Dad is that great, they divorced soon after her dd was born (he had an affair). So maybe my Dad is the Dad she's like them to have had and she wants that for her dc? I don't know, probably making things up now!! Although I have no idea how step-sis/bro view my Dad or much about their relationship with their Dad so I shouldn't really comment. I am meaning from Sm's pov not theirs.

I'm also sure it's extremely hard for her to come into our family the way she has, with my dying, not divorcing. She must know that Mum and Dad would never have divorced and had mum not died they would still be together. She must know how we feel having lost mum as she has lost her parents. She would know how hard that is and it's probably really hard to know how to treat us. But the way they are doing it isn't working. Maybe I should be more pro-active in being her friend but although i'm an adult as she is older I kinda see it as her job to do that. Maybe i'm wrong. I need to consider that. Try and become friends maybe? I had not thought about that til now. hmmm. I would suspect I give off the impression I don't want her around, but that's probably the timing of her coming along, under a yaer after mum died, just before dd was born. I couldn't cope with anymore and she was surplus to my needs. It's not that I don't want her around btw but adjusting to dc is hard enough without someone you suspect doesn't like or care about you and doesn't appear to give a crap about your feelings.

I will NEVER fallout with my Dad and I strongly suspect that if Dad knew the extent of our feelings he would be devestated. It isn't that we don't like SM it's that we don't like how little she considers our feelings. and how little Dad does. But after this thread I realise that by not telling him how I feel and trying to be the nice one I am not helping. He obviously either thinks all is ok or is happy to go along with it as long as we appear to be happy. So from now on I will be telling him, in as nicer way as possible. As I did the other day re the house move. the catalyst to this thread, ie me reaching the point where I cannot just put it aside any longer and keep crying to my dh. Either I do something to help the situation or shut up for a quiet life (ie what i've done for 7 years) well I'm not losing my Dad for ANYONE. I love him so much more after what I went through with Mum and I will not lose him whilst he is still alive.

Interestingly I spoke to Dad last night, the first time since the 'move' conversation and all was fine. He said SM is going out with her DD next Sat and he'd like to take us for lunch so maybe the direct approach does work. We shall see. Whatever happens though one things is for sure, I will not lose him, he is my Dad, the man I always asked for advice and trusted to tell me the truth. Infact I am quite like him so I think we will do better if I'm more honest.

I hope you had a great lunch with your dad OP. Interesting that he only sees you when she is otherwise engaged. It seems to me that if, after 7 years, things haven't changed then imo that is how she wants it. She wants him to herself. This could be for a number of reasons re her dd didn't have a relationship with her dad, SM may not have had a close relationship with her own dad, SMs mother may not have had a relationship with dad - etc. Or it could be that SM wants your dad to herself. (ahem, I've said that twice )

I'm a bit cross with pranma's suggestion that fought-over-dad will back off for a quiet life: that's a weak dad if you ask me (not a man thing but selfish). In a scenario like this it's no wonder there's fighting over his attention as there clearly isn't much to go around.

re your dad OP, I would set up 'operation dad': getting dad back. Go at it slowly, don't give up, approach from all sides, keep going. Try not to alienate SM but keep up the quiet pressure. Sounds like you're getting there - keep at it.

Just want to add that I feel your pain. I can tell so many similar tales about my dad and FIL, both now married to new wives. We also use the terms "old dad" and "new dad" when referring to FIL, but in this case it depends on whether it sounds like she is in earshot or whether he is distracted by doing something with or for her!

Similar to your story, FIL and new wife booked a long trip to Australia and NZ to time with the birth of his second, and as we thought at the time, possibly last, grandchild. Then after getting back, left it over a week to come and meet him. It's just a different way of seeing things sometimes.

There have been many emails and calls and talks with my dad about my feelings regarding him seriously forcing pushing me to build a relationship and spend time with his wife. Firstly, I wasn't ready, due to the circs in which they got together (not nice) and then, it was because I was being pushed so hard against my wishes. You can't force a relationship just because it helps ease your guilt . Anyway, not to bore you with the details, I eventually reached the point of Giving Up Completely when it became clear that the person he sees daily gets priority over his blood relations (example, not coming to his first grandson's birthday because I'd asked him on this occasion not to bring new wife as my mother had just had a major op and didn't feel up to sitting in the same room as her). There is a limit to trying to explain things and having them ignored repeatedly. Same applies between DH and his dad, sadly, although lucky for him, his dad will actually see him and won't force new wife on to him.

I hope you can still get through to your dad. I have had to accept that I can't, and it is sad, like grieving a loss. :(

I can understand where you are coming from also OP. I have posted before about issues re my DF and SM. Similarish situation only maybe a lot further down the line than you, in that my DM died, DF married SM and my family (me DH and our DC) are the marginal ones, DF's life revolves around SM and her family completely. I have lost all respect for my DF because he has allowed himself to be so dominated by SM. I never see him on his own. Sorry if that sounds gloomy but your situation doesn't sound so extreme and perhaps your DF would be responsive to you talking to him. Also, I am on only child and you have your siblings for support. Hope you can get this sorted.

Kamer's post made me realise that there is a common theme - that sometimes we just want to see and spend time with our dads without the influencing presence of a new wife, to relive old times, to allow the older persona to shine through without feeling obliged to behave a certain way for the new wife. Is it actually too much to ask for? Can't happy couples spend some time apart sometimes?