help - wife's drinking

[reachingmylimit]

I have been reading others' stories for about six months and have posted a few times. But I have name changed for this.

I am feeling a bit desperate for some ideas about what to do - or reassurance that I should keep doing what I am doing - about my wife's drinking.

She has been drinking at least a bottle of wine most nights for about 10 years. At the moment it is as high as it has ever been - she stops just short of two bottles and manages one night off most but not all weeks.

It doesn't stop her leading a pretty normal life. We can afford it. She works part time; her hours are increasing soon which I think will be hard.

We row a lot - but very rarely about the drinking: I try very hard to bite my tongue and usually succeed. Of course it feels to me that the angry moods are the booze speaking but that's not to say I don't get things wrong at times and deserve it.

For 2-3 years I have been really working at being a supportive partner; not behaving in any way that could feel like criticism or punishment for her drinking. She wants to drink less and has tried a few things - AA which she didn't like and didn't stay with for long; a counsellor who she found very good and got down to drinking 4 days / week. I don't know why that stopped.

It hasn't worked - yet.

I feel it is doing damage to her health - many times she cannot remember conversations / things that happened the next morning and she forgets words for things more and more - so I am scared of Alzheimers. She has some family history of breast cancer and the statistics I have read say she is increasing her risk from about 12/1000 to 18/1000. Is that a big deal? I don't know.

It does not do much for her relationships with friends / family. Our son (young teen) keeps a distance and I cannot help but think this is why - although I know it is pretty normal for teenagers. But he won't bring friends home of an evening.

So help please - maybe I am just making a problem where there isn't one? It's not like she drinks during the day etc etc etc. Maybe it is my fault she drinks as I am such an awful husband.

And if it is a real problem - maybe I am doing the right thing and should just hang on in there?

What is the alternative? Be nasty to her for drinking? Make threats? Ask her friends to talk to her (I have never spoken to anyone about this ever - feels too disloyal)?

Am I being a wimp for not bringing up the subject because I am scared of her anger? Or am I doing the right thing?

answers on a postcard please...

Reachingmylimit, let's take a step back here.

According to you, she has said that for the next week she will only drink on Tuesday, Friday and Saturday.

Did she clearly say that she is committed to continuing this drinking pattern over the long term?

Did she clearly say that she intends for this reduced drinking pattern to be a stepping-stone to eventual sobriety?

Is it possible she told you this because she was hungover and was being forced to have a conversation she really didn't want to have and so came up with some vague aspiration that a) committed her to nothing definite, b) allowed her to continue drinking, and c) got you off her case?

I remember my ex making many claims about what she will do about her drinking. On some occasions she said "I'll never get drunk again". On others it was "I'll only drink at the weekend". I also heard "I'm only going to drink on special occasions," and "I'm not going to drink for the next three months".

When she made such promises I'd then take them and imagine that she'd actually do it this time and start thinking that, hey, if she can do that, then she'll realise how unimportant alcohol really is and how much fun she can have without it and eventually she'll stop drinking entirely. It was all a fantasy that I was concocting in my own head but it was such an attractive one that it was very hard to stop.

Back in reality, once the promise was made I turned into an obsessive nut-case monitoring how much she was drinking, and when, to see if she was sticking to what she said she'd do. And she generally did stick to it, for a few weeks. I'd praise her lavishly for not drinking, suggest alternatives to drinking alcohol, walk on eggshells around her and generally get way too involved in what she was up to.

And then she'd drink in secret. Or she'd "just have one glass" because, apparently, that didn't count. Or it was a special occasion and she just had to have a drink. Or she took some real or imagined flaw of mine as reason to start an argument and use that as an excuse to hit the bottle. Or sometimes she would invite a friend round, openly get smashed in front of me and simply dare me to say something about it.

My mood would crash through the floor and I'd end up feeling horribly hurt and betrayed. She'd be drunk, I'd be upset, cue the massive argument and all the horrible insults and spite would come flying my way again. And then I'd realise I'd done the same old things all over again and got the same old results.

The bottom line was that my ex knew she often treated me very badly when she was drunk. Yet she had no intention whatsoever of stopping for good. She was willing to take the risk of continuing to treat me badly provided she could still drink.

Snorbs - I take the warnings on board.

In answer to your questions: this is her plan for school term time. She had made this plan without any prompting from me - but only told me when I asked.

No she has not said she intends this as a stepping stone to stopping completely.

If she does not manage to keep to it, I am not going to be hurt and betrayed - she isn't doing it for me or at my request. But I am going to try to get the message across that (a) she needs external help and (b) quitting completely is probably the only way up.

RML, you're going to have to give me some clues about what insights you'd like to hear

I go to AA. You say she went but said it didn't suit her? That happens to a lot of people - either because they don't like the sound of the steps or perhaps they went to a meeting they felt they didn't fit in to. The first thing that newcomers are told is to keep coming back, because eventually they'll start to hear the things they need to admit the problem and the ways in which it can be sorted, just as long as they are willing. I don't want to spout a bunch of AA cliches here (honest!), but the other thing that newcomers will often hear (amongst the stuff they don't as yet understand) is that 'we tried to find an easier, softer way but we could not' - this essentially means that people who find AA works for them have already tried everything else, including cutting down/drinking different drinks/seeing different people etc etc, but each and every time they ended back in the same elevator heading downwards.

Lots of people try AA, leave, come back, leave, come back until they eventually stop drinking or die (sad, but true unfortunately).

It isn't the only way, however. There is another programme called SMART recovery. List of UK meetings here

This might appeal to her as it is totally secular, and quite successful as recovery programmes go, I hear! The rules of going are pretty similar to AA in that you only have to want to give up your substance (SMART is not confined to alcohol addiction) and that you're asked not to use in the room.

The problem right now is that she still isn't ready to actually stop, I don't think, and that means you have make a choice essentially about whether or not you're going to patient or if you're going to do something about not living with her, at least for the time being.

Please let me know if you want any specific insights from a married alcoholic who is a mother. Like I said I'm happy to help

"But I am going to try to get the message across that (a) she needs external help and (b) quitting completely is probably the only way up".

You can try but she will not likely listen to you. What is really different this time?. The only person who can help your wife is infact her. She has to be the one to decide that she needs extermal help and at present she doesn't want any help. It may always be so as well.

I can only reiterate that you are as much caught up on the merry go around of alcoholism as she is and you are as stuck as she is. Unless one of you calls a halt to this merry go around (and that in the end is going to be you) this whole pattern could carry on ad infinitum.

RML, she may well have been telling herself that she was only going to drink on specific days for a while but why do you think she didn't mention it to you until asked?

My insight is because she already knows it doesn't work. She said it to you with every intention of trying it properly because she has the added motivation of you watching and hoping that it will. If were entirely possible for her to do that then she would have done it already. She doesn't want to be drinking like she does, I can be fairly sure of that! she feels crap every morning.

Some mornings her head is swimming, she can't think straight, she feels nauseous and all she wants to do is sleep all day, but despite that she will force herself to get through the day until she can either drink again or get some sleep at a respectable time (ie not during the day) because she doesn't want you to realise how hungover she is.

The problem with these promises is that if (when) she realises that you're very close to the edge and that she cannot risk you seeing her break them she is likely to start hiding bottles - if she isn't already. She will find all kinds of spurious reasons for going into the bedroom throughout the evening, for example, so that you think she's had maybe three glasses of wine in front of you when in fact she's been slugging out of a bottle hidden elsewhere.

Her alcoholic brain may even be hoping that you do leave her because then she can drink what she likes whenever she likes. I'm not saying she is thinking this, or that she ever has but I know I did and it's very common. Alcoholics don't think in the same way as other people, they have very muddled thought processes which swing from one extreme to the other. Another example of this is that you probably can't understand why she doesn't particularly care about what the booze is doing to her health - the problem is that mostly likely she does, it terrifies her but she feels trapped.

Thanks for the update reaching how did the not drinking go today and yesterday?

it helps me a lot to know whether this is a drinking day or not

Just to let you know, I can see how this would help you but it does not help your wife.

If she could say to you in the morning, today I will not be drinking, that would be great. If she does not, you can assume she will be drinking or at least that she has not yet decided to not drink that day. But it's easier for her to just tell herself and not have to involve you at all.

Taking it one day at a time is pretty crucial to success. All she needs to do is not drink for that day. That is a lot simpler and easier for an alcoholic than trying to stick to a schedule of drinking/not drinking, or coming to terms with never drinking again.

The alcoholic brain will play all sorts of tricks such as thinking of alcohol as a 'reward' after abstaining for a day or two. She may end up drinking more than usualy one day if she knows she won't drink the next.

It's far, far easier to just not drink today. Don't even think about tomorrow. Just use all the strategies to not drink today. Sounds so much more manageable doesn't it.

You have done well to try and support her and starting this thread was a great idea. But remember, that your logical brain does not work the same way as an alcoholic brain so, with the best will in the world, you will always struggle to understand it and to know what to do for the best.

Your best chance is to take all the advice from people here who already have experiences to share with you. And keep posting if you can because you need support as much as she does. Maybe more at the moment as you are facing up to things. Talking to her was a good first step. Please talk to your son as well.

reachingmylimit
Just read your thread for the first time. Your wife is me. I have left my husband, split our family home and now share custody of our two kids. I can stop drinking for up to 10 days at a time, but drink at the same levels as your wife the rest of the time. I used to blame him and our unhappy relationship for my drinking, but it was a cover. I drink more than ever now that no-one witnesses it half the time. I have everything I thought I ever wanted and I am happy, but I cannot stop drinking. The difference is I now can drink without being watched and having to defend myself. I work, volunteer, belong to clubs, pay my way etc. Alcohol is a drug, you are living with an addict. Your call.

theseboots - you sound really sad and defeated - you are an addict, you can get better. your call.

sorry, didn't mean too! My life is 100x better than it was after 10 years in a miserable marriage, knocking the drinking would just be the icing on the cake!

sorry! im being a bit thick, does that mean you would like to give up?

when I do give up, I am the holier than thou ex-drinker. i go to the gym, do yoga, have wheatgrass smoothies and preach the virtues of healthy living. \then I have a glass of wine. 2 weeks later I'm on a bottle or more a night and all motivation is gone. I can see it very clearly, but cannot always control it.

so far so good - no booze for two nights. the cravings were there today - it is 5:30-6pm they hit hardest.

won't be here long as unlike when drunk my absence in bed will be noticed.

yes the twisted logic I have noticed.

I think I have to let her drink tomorrow without criticism. Let her complete her week as the goal she has set herself. And then talk to her about how it went and what comes next.

You are all telling me to talk to my son. I knew all along I should be doing this. I will try tomorrow.

Name changed - clearly spelt 'childhood' wrongly!!
I'm looking at it from your child/ren's viewpoint. You don't say how old the two boys(?) are - or if you did I missed it.
My mother started drinking when I was about 9 - being young I didn't notice it in the beginning - father had left and she became very dependent on me to look after younger siblings and run the house.
She kept a job throughout and the drinking became an issue as she was verbally abusive and on occasion violent.
I don't want this to be about me and trying to think of ways to convey to you how damaging it was for me, to have a parent that was an alcoholic.
I kept it completely to myself as I was ashamed - yet with my older rational mind I know her drinking was not my fault.
In the mornings she saw only to herself and was very selfish. If she had money it would be spent on drink rather than food.
As I got older I would challenge her about drinking and would get abuse back - with hindsight she was also ashamed and only knew how to attack. If she had been particularly nasty she would make lots of promises about drinking -such as she'd go to AA meetings. She did go once but realised she didn't really have a problem! She'd also make lots of claims that she'd only drink if she was out socially or if it was the weekend - nothing ever lasted. She said that as she did not wake up in the mornings craving drink then she didn't have a problem.
I used to dread being in the supermarket with her and she'd go up the drink aisle - saying ridiculous things like she was only going to get drink as it's 'good to have it in house if someone comes round' or she's had a hard day at work so she needs a wee treat.
I've always felt that her drinking was a choice - and that she chose alcohol over her children.
She re-married someone who did not realise the extent of her drinking and when he did, did not challenge it and believed the lies/promises. I really resented him for this and thought that as an adult on the same level as her he should be doing something about it - and maybe that's how your child/ren think
I never, ever brought people to the house either.
As time went by her capacity for drink was huge - until it reached a peak and then it changed to the opposite - having only one drink had noticeable effects. Her memory was terrible and what she couldn't remember she made up and I wondered if she had the beginnings of brain damage.
Sorry to ramble on so much - I'm bitter about my mother's drinking - it has affected my adult life in many ways. I don't believe alcoholic promises - they say what they need to and they find ways to keep drinking. Controlled drinking is a farce imho!
I know lots have said she needs to want to stop herself - and that's completely right but the way I see she doesn't 'need' to as you don't appear to have too much of an issue with it - as far as she can see.

What are you frightened of if you come out and state that you don't want her to drink? What could be the worst thing that happens??
You are sending a message to her and your son/s that you accept her drinking and you need to decide whether you want to keep doing that or not. I know sometimes life is easier keeping the status quo or not rocking the boat - but sometimes the end result is worth it.
Good luck - now I'll need to change my name to something that makes sense!

theseboots - i think we are at risk of hi-jacking the thread! im not 'advertising' but you are most welcome to join us on the 'brave babes' thread should you feel like it! no judging etc. just support in getting you to whatever stage you like to be at!

RML - you sound like a nice man! i have 'been' your wife and it was awful at the end - my dh is a fantastic support and i couldnt have done it without him! good luck to you and your family!

jesuswhatnext: thanks. And well done - it sounds as though you have come through this and stayed with your dh. Everyone is different of course and I am well aware of the advice that I cannot control the outcome for us. But of course I want to do anything I can. So any ideas of how I work out what is being a support for dw (learning the lingo) and what is simply enabling her to carry on drinking?

As for talking to DS: this may be me copping out from doing it today, but what do you all think of the idea of saying to DW that I am worried about him and asking HER to speak to him about her drinking? And saying that if she doesn't I will - but being clear that I am not doing it to put him against her, indeed the opposite, and if there is anything she wants me to say, or not to say, to tell me.

It helps that he was out late last night and she asked me if she thought he'd been drinking (I don't actually; if he had it certainly was not a lot). So she can't just accuse me of doing it to get at her.

CrapSpeller: thanks. DS1 (not DWs) is 17, just with us 2 nights a week at the moment, pretty independent. DS2 is 14. She has lost it with DS1 a few times - gone too far in what she has said, not been violent. Not with DS2. She gives a lot to both of them. My assumption is that the issue for DS2 bringing people home is embarrassment. He gets upset with her when she doesn't remember things he has told her / things that have been agreed on an evening - I guess he knows what is going on. I actually see some of the behaviours that I used to indulge in some years ago - keep a distance; muttered comments; dirty looks.

Some of this is normal teenage behaviour of course and he is very busy with activities; loads of friends; doing very well at school so it is not as if he is falling apart. But I do worry about how he feels inside.

theseboots: I hope that it is not a miserable marriage that is the fundamental issue for us. I don't think it is. We do well a lot of the time in spite of the addiction. So I hope there is a different way forward for us.

No. You need to talk to both of your sons about your wife's drinking. Openly, honestly, and with at least as much listening as talking. No topics off the table just because your wife doesn't want them discussed. Then, later, you can include your wife in that discussion if you wish.

If she's been drinking heavily for ten years then your children will have been seeing her drinking and/or hungover since they have been little boys. They will be acutely aware that sometimes she behaves one way towards them, sometimes another even if they're not always entirely sure why there is the difference. They may well be assuming that the differences in reaction from her is down to them rather than her blood-alcohol level at the time.

This subject has been the elephant in the room that no-one talks about for years. Your wife's instinctive reaction will be to minimise what has been happening and the impact it has had on those around her. That is not what your sons needs to hear. They needs to hear that you are aware of what has been happening, that you are sorry that you haven't talked to them about this before, and more than anything else that it is not their fault. And then you need to listen, really listen, to what they have to say.

any ideas of how I work out what is being a support . . . and what is simply enabling her to carry on drinking?

The easiest way is to consider what your response would be if she behaved the way she did without a drink.

For example, she turns nasty, treats you badly, picks a fight,etc. Because she has been drinking, you excuse this behaviour. This is enabling.

How would you normally respond if she had not been drinking? Well, you would speak to her about it. You would tell her that you are not going to put up with that behaviour and if she doesn't change it, you will leave. This is supportive behaviour.

Every time she behaves in an unacceptable and/or inappropriate way because of drink you should speak to her about it the next morning. Every time. Wake her before you go to work if you have to. Even when she is hungover. Say to her we need to talk about what happened last night. This is supportive behaviour.

Talk to your sons. Tell them you know that she has a problem with drink. Ask them what they think about it. Let them know it's not their fault and you know it's taken a long, long time but you are finally doing something about it. This is supportive behaviour.

If she does not want to to change, be true to your word and build a separate life for you and your sons. This is supportive behaviour.

Do nothing, keep doing what you have done already, give her chance after chance, leave her to feed 'excuses' to your sons, avoid talking to them yourself. stay with her while she continues to drink. This is enabling behaviour.

By the way reaching you may like to know that you have already helped others by starting this thread. Just talking it through here has prompted some people to question their own drinking habits and how it affects others. Bringing it into the open really does help. Talking often is the first step to finding support and you may get a much more positive response from your wife once you get used to talking more openly with her.