I have been reading the links...

[CardyMow]

That were put up on the other thread. How would I go about getting on the freedom program? I think I need to. I have realised JUST how much of what Ex-P was doing is abusive, and how confused I feel about the way he is trying to be 'nice' to me to get me back. I need someone in RL that I can go to to get some perspective on this.

I would hazard a guess that I have 'put up' with the emotional abuse from Ex-P in the same way that I ignored the physical, sexual and emotional abuse from one of my other exes.

And I would hazard a further guess that I have been almost conditioned to do so by the way my mother is. She does an amazing line in gaslighting, does my mum, which I have known for years, and thought I had dealt with the shit that resulted from my crappy upbringing - but I obviously haven't. And I want to. I don't want to keep going through cycles like this - I deserve better than this, and I WANT better than this.

So could someone tell me how I get on the freedom program please?

I try to - but his work DOES change his shift times at a moments notice sometimes, which means it is difficult to stick to. If his work change his shift, say so he has to work a late shift on a tuesday instead of the early he should be doing - I then feel like I have to let him see the dc on another evening, as it's not his fault. And with that - I KNOW when he's genuine on that or fibbing, I know someone that works with him.

What was actually arranged was :

Week 1 -

Tuesday evening, my house, till DS2 goes to bed.

Thursday evening, my house, till DS2 goes to bed.

Saturday morning 11am - picks up DS2, Sunday afternoon drops DS2 back to me at 6pm.

Week 2 -

Tuesday evening, my house , till DS2 goes to bed.

Friday 12pm - 2pm he takes DS3 out, brings him back, then picks DS2 up from school and takes him for dinner out, brings him back at 6pm.

Ex-P has managed to change the Tuesday evening for Wednesday 4 times in 11 weeks now (at V short notice) due to shift changes at work. He has turned up at 10am (an hour early) to pick up DS2 twice. He has brought DS2 back an hour early EVERY time he has him for the weekend - once He didn't ring or text me, I was out AND it was pissing down - and he had the cheek to be angry with ME for not being in because "You never go anywhere , what have YOU got to do??" Even today, he has decided he will bring DS2 back at 5pm not 6pm, he caught me when I was busy bf'ing baby so I agreed before I realised, basically.

He can't keep to the routine if it KILLS him. Now I know that it's not all his fault, but when he turns up half an hour - an hour early, ostensibly to 'see DS3', it makes me feel like my house isn't my own IYSWIM. It's not as if I can leave him outside in the rain, is it? That's bloody rude. I would be rightly fucked off if anyone did that to me, left me outside in the rain if I'd turned up early to see them. BUT, but, but, I equally know that he is doing it to see what I'm up to, to have an opportunity to try and 'hook me back' again. But I can't get over the fact that it's rude to leave someone standing on your doorstep...

Oh, and last time he took DS3 out for his 12-2..he asked to have him till 3pm as his bloody mother hadn't seen DS3 for ages (because she was fucking rude to me but there you go), so I agreed but said he HAD to be back on time as DS3 would desperately need a feed by then. He didn't fucking turn up until 3.45pm. By which time my boobs were agony, and DS3 was CRYING (he never cries for a feed with me, he is fed before he cries IYSWIM).

your health visitor or SureStart centre should have details of your nearest group.. I think it'll be really good for you to do one as there are patterns you've noticed that need breaking

If you are separated, you can forbid this man from entering your house. Ever. Contact does not have to take place at your house, you can make it in a public place. You should definitely get some more legal advice - Women's Aid will be able to help and maybe even recommend a solicitor who understands abusive relationships. Remember that contact is about the child's relationship with the parent, and there is no way that you can be legally compelled to interact with this man at all if you don't want to.

YY - I get that, SGB - but places in contact centre here there's a) a really long waiting list, and b) They are kept for violent exes. In a public place - I would have to go too if it was longer than 2hrs, as DS3 is a bottle refuser. In onw way I wish DS3 was older, but then I don't want to wish his life away as he is going to be my last dc.

While your baby is solely breastfed, the ex should only have the child for an hour or so - that's reasonable. That's enough. The child doesn't need hours and hours with him at this stage, especially when he's such an (unfortunately) frequent presence.

And your ds3 should be about starting weaning foods and sippy cups? (Have the idea he's over 6months although I could easily have that wrong). So we're only really talking about a practical difficulty that will be resolving itself fairly soon.

You need to change your mindset about your ex. He doesn't deserve your extra consideration, because of the way he has treated you in the past and the way he continues to mess you about. Hold some grudges, for goodness sake .

You know, if someone turns up early to appointments, that's a social faux pas at the very least . It's rude to turn up early, as rude as turning up late. You need to practise saying "it's not convenient" and shutting the door. So he gets wet. So what? He can go to a bus-stop. He can go to a cafe. He can get a bloody umbrella . It is not your problem. Stop bending over backwards to accommodate him. Doesn't it irritate the fuck out of you that he thinks you're just sitting in waiting for him to show his face?

DS3 is 7mo (just). He eats some solid food, but not a huge amount (milk monster). And he won't take a sippy cup either - I've tried 4 different ones so far! I want to let him self-wean, And TBH, for me, food is for fun until they're 1 - so it doesn't bother me that he doesn't eat great amounts. He tries new foods - but that's NOT where he gets his nourishment from, that's his milk.

Of COURSE that irritates me - I'm only human! But there is no-where to go for him to keep dry (place I live is all houses only, fuck all else here).

It doesn't have to be a contact centre, it can be a cafe, shopping centre or park, and you can read a book on a bench or seat a few yards away or whatever. As to the XP getting wet in the rain if he turns up early - so fucking what? It's his fault, a) for turning up early and b) for being a knob. Let him take the consequences.
I do appreciate the thing about the shifts, but that should be the only point where you cut him any slack (because you know his workmate and therefore know when it happens). Any other fannying about from him, just ignore it, don't change your plans for him. Your baby is so small that he really won't be upset by missing his dad now and again.

LL - you've really got to get a grip here! lol

You need to set up an emotional boundary with your x or you certainly will get sucked back in. I think it's easiest to do that by keeping contact to a minimum.

You know that he is using contact with the dcs to get at you - why aren't you stopping him doing that and fighting back?

Because, while DS3 might be too little to worry about missing his dad etc, DS2 IS old enough for it to affect him. Badly. Like if he knows his Dad is outside in the rain. He will start crying about how wet his dad is getting etc. Or try to pass him a towel through the window. . He did that last time I made Ex-P wait outside when it was pissing down. DS2 is 7.10yo. THAT'S why I'm not stopping him and fighting back. I KNOW I'm a wet blanket, but I can't bear to see the look in DS2's eyes.

So Ex-P uses baby DS3 as a way to get to come round and keep tabs on me, I can't put a stop to it because it affects DS2 emotionally...

No cafe close to me, closest shop OF ANY SORT is almost 2 miles away walking distance. Only parks. Which would mean I would have to drag my older dc out as well. In the evening. When they are meant to be doing homework. Never a bloody easy answer for me, is there.

Plus the after work visits are at 4.30 or 5pm, depending on which week it is with his shifts. Right when I'm meant to be cooking dinner for the dc's. Can't do that if I'm in a park, getting wet and waiting for Ex-P to play happy fucking families, can I?

Sorry - didn't mean to be snippy. Having a hard time, trying to help a friend with her SN dc. Brain melting a bit because of that.

You're going to have to start pointing out to the older DS that Daddy is being silly/has been naughty and that it's daddy's own fault he's outside. Your DS is old enough to understand that if people behave badly they have to take the consequences. Of course you don't want to poison your DS mind against his father, because he will understand soon enough that his father is a knob, but it's not unreasonable to set firm boundaries about acceptable behaviour.

Loud, you seem to be asking how can you change things without changing anything, and the answer is you can't.

Something has to change, and it's got to be you that does it, because it's not going to be your ex. The way things are suits your ex: he has you at his disposal, feeling so trapped by circumstances that any gesture on his part is like a miracle. When he feels like it he can be a hero by letting you get to your dental appointment or whatever, and when he doesn't feel like it, well, you've got no claims on him (and even when you did, when you were together, he acted like you didn't). In the meantime, you behave as though you're responsible for him, when he's a fully grown man who should be able to figure things out for himself.

I know, I know. Ex-P got here on time today - and left at the agreed time too. . I didn't really talk to him while he was here, I busied myself with jobs that needed doing. I think he was pissed off because I kind of left him to it, didn't tell him anything I'd been up to (he asked, I just said "oh, this and that" airily). Don't think he liked that.... I think it is going to have to be done in baby steps for me, our lives have been intertwined for so long. I've decided to start by not teling him who I've seen or where I've been or what I've been doing.

None of his business now, IMO. He doesn't tell me, so why should I tell him?

And OH, I sooooo get what you mean by 'he can be a hero'...in everyone else's eyes, he's fabulous, because look how much he helps his EX out...no, he's just doing what he should have been bloody doing ANYWAY, and besides, he's looking aftre his own children, not anything unusual, surely??

Babysteps are good . I think it's a good start.

And you're right, looking after his kids isn't a precious gift to you, a favour or noble in any way, it's just what any father should do naturally.

I wouldn't be surprised if he ups his game and either starts a charm offensive or tries to guilt you once he realises you're trying to distance yourself.

No, I know him well, It'll be the guilt trips next. Then comes him being angry with me, then we get the stupid things like him contacting SS saying I'm not looking after the dc properly, or phoning the benefit fraud hotline saying I've got someone living with me. Or harassing me on the phone and by text, then when I am replying with neutral, phone the police and accuse ME of harassing HIM. Or go to the solicitors about contact - he got kicked out of 6 solicitors firms last time for being plain unreasonable, even his own solicitors couldn't deal with him...He wanted DS2 during the day, every other Thursday. Which would have been fine apat fom the fact that DS2 was starting FULL TIME SCHOOL(!). (All things he's done when we've been apart in the past).

Because, of course, if I don't want to get back with him, then there MUST be another man on the scene...

I don't WANT another man, I know I need to get used to being on my own first.

The women on the 'support for those in emotionally abusive relationships' thread could really be of good support to you, I think.

You're not stupid, it's just hard to shake off someone like this - they sort of take you over and wear you down. You always have that faint hope he can be the man you sometimes glimpse, that the loving guy is the real him and the asshole is just because he's having stress at work or because of his crap childhood or whatever.

I just find that thread is so long, I'd get lost on there, IYSWIM. I'm the kind of person that reads a whole thread, and 800-odd messages is a bit much to trawl through if you're not there at the start!

I totally 'get' what you say about hoping the loving, nice guy is HIM, not the asshole. Maybe it's because that'd mean admitting I've wasted 12 years with an asshole. .

ach, you don't need to read the whole thread! Just jump in. You'll get filled in quite quickly.

I've just seen that there is a new, shorter one. Will be there soon!