Counsellors or anyone who has had it- your experiences please.

[counsellingtricks]

I posted a few days back about the genogram used in my last session.
Talking mainly about marriage- go or stay.

I want to now ask about counselling and outcomes. I am feeling frustrated about the counsellor's lack of comment. She asks lots of questions , says things like I seem angry, disappointed, suffering loss etc as my marriage is not what I had hoped- but zilch else.

I know she will not take sides or be judgemental, but I also feel I am talking into thin air.

I am pretty clued up with my own behaviour, family background etc etc- have analysed it a lot over the years, and withut boasting, I'd say I am pretty self aware.

There is nothing I have told her that I have not told close friends, or acknowledged myself. No big revelations. No "Arrrrrh that's why it doesn't work" moments.

I come out feeling I have had a good old moan, talked about stuff, but that's it.

I suppose I need or want her to say "Yes you are justified in feeling that" or, "Yes you are right, that is not acceptable behaviour" etc etc. Nothing.

Is counselling for me?
I don't think I will find more answers like this......

No, it's not daft :) It shows you have a great deal of compassion; empathy for his feelings. However, I wonder if there's much value in looking back to what you felt at the time - you did it with the best intentions but, sadly, it's not worked out for you. Basically, whatever else you were feeling back then, you did have hope and faith! Perhaps a bit too much, and perhaps a bit misplaced, but much good has come from it already. Where does that put you now?

Send me your bill Garlic

I had doubts then, I was aware of my biological clock ticking, I'd been hurt a lot, I felt it was now or never, he ticked a lot of boxes but my needs have changed a bit- or rather the position of those qualities in the list has changed.

Where it puts me now is do I live another 30 years, God willing, making do with someone who really loves me, and has many good qualities- but doesn't set me alight, and whom I no longer really fancy- or jump ship.

There is an irony in that I care more about him much, much more now than I did 20 years back, but I am painfully aware too that if we met today he would not be my type, and not interest me. How sad is that?

I have to go now, but I really appreciate the comments here.

:) Happy thinking - hope you figure some stuff out! x

It does sound as though you are not particularly suited to the style of counselling you are getting. You want ways to make decisions, so perhaps you would be better with something like CBT, rather than a protracted talking therapy.

Your counsellor assigning feeling labels to each session - do you agree with her? Do you challenge them? Does she get it right? Does it surprise you ever? She's trying to prise open the doors that you have closed, either because you think you already have all the answers and don't need to examine that area any more or because you don't even realise there is a door there.

I have heard that with the more protracted talking therapies, a common "breakthrough" time is after about 2 years of work. Certainly this was true for me - I didn't particularly notice a dramatic change but my perspective shifted and things started to change. A friend of mine was on the point of giving up, having unconsciously refused to allow herself to open up for 2 years when suddenly the floodgates opened and it all came out.

Self-awareness can sometimes be limiting - because there may be things you have overlooked. I am not being clever or patronising - I thought I was pretty self-aware but I had missed so much. Careful steering (NOT directing, it's not so forceful) by my counsellor opened up many of my closed doors and helped a lot.

You might need to think about another counsellor. Or, at least, get her to talk more to you about the process, what you want to achieve and what you can expect in the way of stages. I don't see what's wrong with setting goals - what do you want to change about your life/behaviour?

Are you sure the sort of counselling this person is offering is what you want?Is it suitable for your problems? Have you read up about the sort of therapy/counselling available? Have you got any personal recommendations? or did you just go to the first counsellor recommended by your GP?

You sound as if you want to be proactive, and you sound frustrated with what is happening. Your counsellor needs to reassure you about the process, or you might need to go elsewhere. I know that sounds like a pain in the arse, but you probably will not make progress unless you click with the person you are having therapy with, and trust them.

In my experience it's a slow process, but worth it, and worth trying to find someone who can really help you.

Good luck.

I guess if you give it a bit of time you will start to see how it helps. A counsellor, at least of the psychodynamic kind, isn't a life coach, or there to give you "advice".

You will be behaving in ways during the session with her that will be a mirror of what you do with your DH. You won't be aware of it. Being intellectually "self aware" of things that generally affected you in childhood, although valuable, is different from having insight into unconscious relationship dynamics in the here and now.

I'll try to give you examples. I thought I was quite self aware, and indeed I was to an extent, at least intellectually/cognitively. I knew I was the eldest child, my parents expected a lot, I knew I had therefore had tendencies to be competitive and value achievement. I knew my parents lost my younger brother stillborn and that to an extent I had always played the role of eldest and son in the family, given that I had no brothers. Etc all sorts of things like that.

What I had no awareness of at all, for example, was how my moods and feelings about relationships changed with separations, in the here and now. I would have told you I was a resilient person who was not afraid of abandonment etc. Actually my therapist noticed that after any kind of break for a holiday etc I would usually contrived to either miss the first session back, or be very late, or forget my checkbook, something like that which was an expression of my anger at the separation. If DH went away on a biking holiday, consciously I felt absolutely fine about it and indeed glad he was enjoying himself. But when he got back we would usually have an almighty row about something silly. And this all because there is a part of me that gets very upset and angry at being separated from those who are important. It does help, because if DH goes away now we have an understanding of the deeper dynamics that are at play and it helps us in our relationship. The unconscious feelings have been made conscious.

Sorry, that example went on a bit!

What I think will be interesting for your counsellor will be, from the little we know about your sessions, will be, for example,

• your need to involve a third party (in this case, Mumsnet) in the relationship between you and the counsellor, and for the relationship with the counsellor to be evaluated by Mumsnet to determine whether it is any good or not

• and the fact that this parallels the need you have for your counsellor to be the "third party evaluator" in respect of your relationship with your DH, and make judgments about it as to whether it is worth sticking with or not.

Or in short, why do you feel a certain lack of confidence in your own judgment and need back up from someone else?

I would stick with it for a bit longer. Though it is true that not everyone gets on with the first counsellor they try, you need to give it a chance. As your counsellor starts building up a bigger picture of the way you relate dynamically, I am sure lights will start to go on for you.

Best of luck!

and it hasn't worked for me- but it works for them
I am of the strong opinion that if someone isn't right for someone else, then it can't really be true the other way around. Now, he might be sure that it's working for him, but 20 years is a long time to get used to something. I often think that in this situation the person will end up agreeing that maybe it wasn't working for them either - or they may not, but that isn't your responsibility.

Case in point to the above. My ILs were married for 37 years. They had an awful relationship, quite obviously to everyone close to them, but my MIL was absolutely convinced that it was good solid relationship and everything was fine. My FIL left her, eventually after wanting out for I don't know 20+ years, for someone else and she was utterly surprised and absolutely did not want to end what she thought was a perfect relationship. A few years later down the line and she concedes that it wasn't at all and they're better off apart.

Thanks you so much to everyone who has taken the time to post. I do appreciate it.

My counsellor was recommended by another counsellor ( very experienced and a supervisor) whom I know: I asked for a recommendation of a counsellor to help with my marriage.

I understood that there was something called Brief Solution Focused Therapy- mine says she does that onher website- and initially she suggested 6 sessions. Now we have looked at the genogram she seems to say it will be longer.

Why do some people have BSF therapy- what is the point/difference?

My best friend had counselling for 5 years. Her counsellor was directive to the point of being unethical IMO. She told her what to do- said her DH was not right for her- implored her to leave- and even ( unbelievable) wrote to her saying the same. I read it. She has now died- so let her rest in peace- but I told my friend all along that she was crossing boundaries.

That is one end of the counselling spectrum.

The reason I brought this to MN was I am/was unsure what counselling does. I said in session 1 that I wanted it to give me clarity over my direction.
I am not using MN to "have a dig" at my counsellor- I am genuinely in the dark over where she is leading me, and wanted other people's experiences.

One thing is sure- I cannot afford £200 a month for months or years. So finances will dictate how long it goes on, if nothing else does!

Thanks again for everyone's comments and sharing experiences.

Hi again! Not sure if you're still reading, but anyway.

There is an irony in that I care more about him much, much more now than I did 20 years back, but I am painfully aware too that if we met today he would not be my type, and not interest me. How sad is that?

It is sad. Sad things do happen sometimes - it's a bit shallow to compare a 20-year marriage to a driving accident, but I think you see how that, too, would be sad if unavoidable at that particular time.

Do you think you're putting your H's contentment before your own? As you've done background work on how past influences affect your present thoughts, are you aware of any repetitive dynamic here? Sometimes those influences can be disproportiantely tiny, for example somebody once said "She's made her bed, now she must lie in it," and it just happened to make an impression on you. Sometimes the influences can be huge, like my mother's choice to love a violent man.

The unconscious mind adds its own weight to things, depending on all sorts of circumstances - none of them are 'stupid' at the time your mind stored them, but they very much can retain a level of influence beyond their use-by date, iyswim. When you can accurately identify those influences, it's far easier to re-evaluate them in the light of present knowledge. I had a problem with the "made bed" thing, for example, until I had a fresh chat with myself on it - reminding myself that I can get out of an uncomfortable bed and make it up with fresh linen! (I now find that, if I've been putting off changing my sheets, I need to consider what other circumstances I'm needlessly putting up with - the unconscious mind can be wonderfully literal with its symbols )

The above might look like so much waffle to you, I dunno. I hope you get at least some use from it :)

Garlic- have PMd you. Ta x

Hi again - you ask if I am a counsellor, no I'm not, I've been in it though, and self-development courses and, as a linguist, I have worked in many sessions as an interpreter in different forms of therapy so know about lots of different types.

I'm not sure what you are saying I got wrong. I asked you what you had told your counsellor you wanted out of counselling and thought that what you wanted is what you had told her. I would say, in order not to waste time and money, do tell her at the start of the next session what you hoped counselling would be, ie. ""I suppose my expectations of counselling were that someone with more knowledge of relationships would help me confirm that DH and I are in fact incompatible, no matter how hard he tries to meet my needs."

Otherwise, what I was trying to say is very similar to what Bumpsadasie says about the mirroring of what might be happening at home with what is happening with the counsellor.

What you are doing certainly doesn't sound anything like brief solution focussed therapy. This site has a very good description of what it is
www.brief.org.uk/view.php?item_id=79. Basically, it starts off as defining your goals which you try to find out by asking yourself the question, if I woke up in the morning and a miracle had happened, would would have changed? You then look for positive ways to make those changes.

If you want a fixed and structured therapy that is more collaborative, you could look at Cognitive Analytical Therapy that works on a 16 sessions basis.

I have been to relationship counselling twice on my own (about former relationships, not current). I went alone both times (I feel now in retrospect) because I was seeking 'permission' to leave at some level. Maybe different for you though, OP.

First was Relate - at the end of long relationship in a situation where I was very agitated and guilty. The therapist didn't tell me what to do and wasn't super directive, but I found him very helpful because what he was good at was making me to feel that I was 'allowed' to have my feelings and was being responsible for thinking things through. He definitely helped me have a place beyond crippling guilt and I felt it was useful and helped me find some peace at the end of the relationship.

The second counsellor was Tavistock Institute. It was not directive either and was more psychodynamic and like what you describe focused on the past. I didn't find concentrating on my childhood very useful ultimately or get on well with the therapist. I almost felt she had a vested interest in me NOT resolving things and keeping me as a client. Maybe that's unfair, but I'm afraid I did. It just made me feel pointlessly worse about myself and she was quite confrontational.

Whereas a counsellor can't tell you what to do, if they can't give you a way of feeling that your emotions are valid and worthy of working through, that's a bit of a waste of time IMHO. The fact yours doesn't seem to be at least giving you the inner confidence to look at things in a different way isn't ideal to my ears.

The thing that helped me most in the second situation was reading a book called Too Good to Stay, Too Bad to Leave? by an American relationship counsellor called Mira Kirschenbaum. Only self help book I've ever read, but I thought it was brilliant for my situation - being in a relationship where I was constantly ambivalent and constantly weighing things up. Never thought I'd recommend that sort of book, but it helped 50 times more than the counsellor did.

Now I am in a very happy relationship indeed, I feel a million times better about everything, and when I think back on counselling I have very mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, that first counsellor helped me to move on - on the other, the second counsellor just complicated a situation that (I now see) needed me to think more clearly and decisively.

I suppose if I were ever in that situation again, I'd think to myself that if I had been seeing a therapist for a couple of months and was just swilling round the same old thoughts without getting anywhere, then what's the point! It sort of doesn't matter who is right or wrong, does it?

hope that helps - very best of luck with your situation

Thanks to you both. Euorstar- I have checked out her training and she is currently training in BSF therapy, on top of being a Relate trained counsellor.
I need to tell her what I think about it all. I was expecting very simple, direct questions such as- why are you with DH, what makes you stay, why do you think about leaving, what will you lose or gain by leaving, how do you feel about a life on your own, how much guilt do you feel about this ......

I have given her all of this info anyway- I talk a lot!- but she simply nods without challenging me, neither agreeing or disagreeing.

crazy I can identify with all you say. Having said what I have above, she does not make me feel guilty- which friends do / have- and she implies it's okay to feel as I do. That's good. However, what I want teasing out of me is why the things that make me feel unfulfilled can be counted on one hand- yet his good points need two hands. I want to have my reasons gor going acknowledged I suppose as "reasonable" as I am killing myself with indecision and guilt at the same time.

I am going to read if anyone posts, but not post back as I am afraid she or someone might recognise this the longer it goes on. Thanks everyone.

Instead of weighing up the pros and cons of staying in your marriage, how about evaluating what you want from life outside it? If you split, how will that improve your life? Can you imagine it, and how will it look? What are your unfulfilled ambitions and dreams; what will you need to do to achieve them?

I agree, btw, that what you're doing is very sensible and kind. Lots of other people in "less-than" marriages try to plug the gap with an affair before considering the real problem.

I will answer your very nice PM; just need to organise my thoughts first!

counsellingtricks, I had to check the date/name on your OP to check that it was not written by me 20 years ago when I went to Relate (Marriage Guidance back then) when my first marriage was on the rocks.

I found counselling incredibly frustrating/ pointless, and sometimes even distressing.

Since then I have been to two other counsellors, both highly recommended , and came away with much the same feeling

Like you I had a lot of insight into my situation and had spoken to wise and trusted friends at length.

I mistakenly thought that I would lay all my cards on the table ( I was not the perfect wife) , share any detail of me and the relationship she cared to ask and then she would give some kind of pronouncement/prognosis , or at least a nudge.

I asked her "you've seen the bare bones of dozens of relationships - you must have seen ones like mine. In your vast experience could you see the possibility of a happy ending for us? Or in general do situations like mine tend to end in divorce?" . Of course she would not answer.

Interestingly the book crazyhead advises did exactly that - described various relationships/ scenarios and advised whether most people were happier to leave or stay.

Just in case you go looking for the book crazyhead mentions, it's called "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay", not the other way around. I was by the title as given because it made no sense, so checked!

The book is ordered and on its way. Thanks for that and all other comments. I am still reading but not posting at length due to anonymity etc.