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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How do you help someone with a drinking dependency?

41 replies

messagetoyourudy · 11/08/2011 08:47

I am lost really. I feel my DH has a drinking dependency, I have looked at various definitions on the internet and he doesn't seem to come into the category of alcoholic but his drinking is alot.

Most nights he come home from work and the first thing he does is have a can of cider or a glass of wine. If it is wine he will drink a whole bottle to himself, if it is cider he will drink 3/4 cans of strong cider. He drinks quickly for the hit and can easily finish a bottle of wine in an hour or so. He drinks without thought so can be pouring himself a glass at 10pm even though he is about to go to bed.

At the weekend if we are all at home he will often start on a can at lunch time and drink for the rest of the day. He can never seem to say no to a social event and he has no off button. For example he went out last weekend for a few and came home very drunk at 3.30am! Even though he knew I was working the next day and he would have to get up with the kids.

He thinks that because he doesn't have a drink in the mornings it's not a drink problem. I am finding it very difficult as his brother has just split up with his wife over the much the same sort of thing (his brother was asked to leave the family home as he also just cant say no to 'fun' be it drink or recreational drugs) so it has brought it all to a head for me.

Both of his parents are drinkers and always have been, if we go over for sunday lunch it is not uncommon for his dad to be drinking a whiskey at 11am.

I would really like to help him stop/cut down I worry that my children already see drinking as the norm (they are 5 & 7). But is he doesn't see it as a problem how can I help? He suffers from boughts of depression and has recently admitted to having suicidal thoughts which really shook me as I thought we were happy as a family.

OP posts:
foggyday · 14/08/2011 09:03

Rudy, I read your post and all the responses last night and it has stayed with me.

Your post could have been me writing around 2 years ago. In fact, I did post regularly on the same subject for a while, although I've name changed for this one.

The last think I want to do is scare anyone, however my DH died last year aged 47 from the effects of liver disease - a direct consequence of heavy drinking for 10/15 years. He was never someone you would see drunk, but drank at home constantly and in the end it killed him. Like others, I believe he used alcohol from a fairly early age to help cope with stress but in the end it became the problem itself.

In all the threads I've read on the subject of alcoholism, I don't think I've ever seen one quite like this in terms of people's responses and their depth of understanding and empathy. Snorbs - thank you so much for your post and your words about the fears that alcoholics face. You have pretty much summed up where I think my DH was in his life, not that he would open up to me about it, but it makes me so sad to think of him stuggling in this way.

What has struck me about this thread is that so many of us experience the same patterns of behaviour. My DH would also go straight for a drink when he came in from work, often before even taking his jacket off, and would then always have a drink on the go all evening. On weekends, holidays and days off I would be increasingly aware that any time after noon was considered by him as an acceptable time to get a beer from the fridge and I often felt he would drink strong lager in the day in the way that the rest of us drink cups to tea. AT weekends, he would always suggest going out for lunch although it became increasingly obvious that this was just a way of getting his first couple of pints down him as he ate very little when we were there. His family also have a more 'relaxed' attitude to drink and there is plenty of around when we visit even now.

It used to upset me that I couldn't expect him to drive after early afternoon on a weekend because I'd know he was over the limit.

Rudy, I can't really add anything that hasn't already been said. One of the sad things about alcoholism is that it doesn't just change the alcoholic, it also changes the people around them. In the last few years of my DH's life I became someone who was angry and resentful, powerless to change something that he wouldn't even acknowledge was a problem. I became suspicious, untrusting, constantly angry and stressed and like others was constantly searching the house for bottles. In the end I dreaded coming home and I think my DD was the same. We are coming through some of that now.

By the time by DH died, I was finally taking steps to leave as I finally saw what this disease was doing to me and my DD and I knew there was nothing more I could to help DH if he was not prepared to act himself. There will come a point where you may need to consider the same, or hopefully your DH will have the insight and strength to take charge of the problem in the same way that some others have on here. All I can say is look at the advice and sources of support others have suggested but above all, think of yourself and your children - you cannot control what your DH does but you can control what you do as a result and, difficult though it may be, try to put yourself and your DCs first.

messagetoyourudy · 14/08/2011 09:17

happyeverafter and goingonabearhunt What do you do for youself and your me time? I keep on threatening to go off for a whole weekend to a spa or something, so DH will have to look after the kids, so I can be equal in spending money - but of course I don't. I wouldn't want to leave the kids.

Well, last night he failed to even come home! And your right solid, I do really resent that he has just assumed that he can just do that. And yes, I do just feel like I am his mother, I will pick up the pieces and deal with everyday life ie being a parent to 2 small boys!!! He is sat watching Cars with them now but soon he will go to bed and that's the whole day written off. So out of our weekend DH has been outonl Fri night, asleep most of Sat afternoon, out all night on Sat, and will now go to bed for most of Sunday. Not much of a father/husband really.

This is an extreeme drinknig weekend but it is not an isolated weekend.

What I feel like doing is taking the kids out for the day somewhere and showering them with gifts, because I know it will nark DH. I mentioned yesterday that maybe DS1 could have something like a build a bear for learning to ride a bike and DH said no, as he feels they get alot compared to what he had as a child. So maybe I will buy them both a build a bear today!!!

OP posts:
CrosswordAddict · 14/08/2011 09:21

Hypnotherapy does work but the snag is you have to get the alcoholic to the hypnotherapist first.

pickgo · 14/08/2011 09:42

Some really excellent posts here.

Just one thing to say - it's not that hard to leave or be a single parent you know. Okay it's not a walk in the park, but you are effectively living as lone parents any way - but with the added stress of seeing the damage your partners are doing to your families.

Feeling like you've got to stay for the DCs is ironic imo - it's for them that you should leave. Growing up with an alc parent is very damaging, you never know where you are with them, you know you come second to a drink, the tension is horrible.... and all associated with that smell,,, ugh.

Please don't feel like you're over a barrel (!) - you can leave and it will be a better life.

happyeverafter · 14/08/2011 09:57

messagetoyourudy I just wanted to ask you and apologies if you've said before but have you spoken to anyone in RL about your DH? I'm asking because I didn't tell anyone for a long time. Finally I broke down in tears one day at my doctor's surgery when she asked me a few direct questions.
She is still giving me all the support she can. The important thing in all this is you and your mental health. If your DH won't change then yes you need to do more things for yourself that help you. Do go and buy the bears for your DD or treat yourself to small things that make you happy. It helps keep you sane. I find I resent any spare money we have being spent on booze and at times I think will 'sod you' I'm not going to feel guilty for buying things that make me and my dds happy.

I also have a very dear friend that knows my situation and can offload to her at any time and although I still have the problem at home, it does definitely help to be able to confide in someone. HTH x

messagetoyourudy · 14/08/2011 10:02

foggyday I read your post and I am sat here crying. Thank-you so much for sharing your story. I am so sorry to hear about your loss, your story rings true for all of my worst fears, and yet you have had to live it all. I am at a loss for words but my heart goes out to you.

I feel like you did so very sad that the man I love can't communicate with me anymore, he feels that his life is not what he want's it to be, yet doesn't seem to know what he want's it to be. If that makes sense? Basically lost.

OP posts:
FabbyChic · 14/08/2011 10:21

he is an alcoholic, someone who cannot go a day without a drink is an alcoholic, someone who is dependant on drink is an alcoholic.

The only way he can resolve this is to stop drinking, however as he drinks so much that cannot be done without medical intervention.

His depression is no doubt brought about by drinking, alcohol is a natural depressant.

Only he can help himself, time to give him an ultimatum. Stop drinking or ship out.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 14/08/2011 10:22

The short and perhaps brutal answer to the question in your heading is that you cannot.

Where do you see yourself in say a years time?. I would agree with the post that Pickgo has recently written.

Alcoholism as well thrives on secrecy; I daresay that hardly anyone within your own social circles know about your DH's drink problem.

What are you both teaching your children about relationships?. They are learning from both of you and having a drunkard parent in their lives does them no favours at all. Many women in these situations also end up acting as their partners enabler. Living with such a person is extremely damaging to all around them; I believe that alcoholism is a family disease.

You may want to read "Codependent No More" written by Melodie Beattie as there are often elements of codependency within such relationships. I see that Snorbs has already mentioned this book and it is highly recommended as is contacting Al-anon. You need help and support and so do your children.

You need to remember the 3cs when it comes to alcoholism:-

You did not cause it
You cannot control it
You cannot cure it

foggyday · 14/08/2011 10:22

Rudy, the last thing I'd want is to upset you, but I know that I was exactly the same a few years back when I read others post and heard people saying what I knew to be true but couldn't accept. The thing is to accept and then deal with the things you can today - don't try and do it all in one go because it takes a long time to work through everything. You have enough pressure on you without feeling like you have to sort all this out immediately.

You are so right -my DH had such high standards for himself and I think that the worst fear for him was not being the person he thought he should be for his family, so he got caught in a downward spiral. I think he saw seeking help as a sign of weakness.

Pickgo and Happyeverafter also make good points - you can survive on your own with your DCs. I am doing that now, and while we have grieved so much for my DH, we are grieving for the person he was before this really took hold and we do have many happy memories. The other side of the coin is that we now live much more peacefully and I have regained some of the confidence and calm that I had lost. I am sure this can be found by others in your position without things reaching the finality that came to us.

On support, I'd really endorse the views about speaking to someone in RL. I hid our situation for years and only told family when DH was becoming very ill and it couldn't be avoided anymore. I also became quite isolated as I didn't want people coming to the house etc. Can't remember if anyone mentioned al-anon on this thread but I gave them a try at one point. They were a help to me in that they helped me see I wasn't alone and also with the acceptance thing as DH wasn't the only one denying the problem for a while.

Please take care of yourself and remember that this problem is sadly so much more common than we realise so seek some help and support for yourself.

littlemisspuddleduck · 14/08/2011 10:45

Foggy ... your messages hit a real note with me. It seems there are a few of us here in very similar situations.

I am so sorry for your loss - and thank you for sharing your story.

I am sorry to say that I often find myself wishing for the same outcome ... maybe that makes me weak - but I find every day a constant battle, I never know where I stand and every conversation leaves me drained and confused. I long for that calm that you speak of.

I know that there is an option to leave - but I have tried that before and the games and manipulation wear me down ... and I opt for the easy (ha!) life.

My H is currently not drinking, although managed 2.5 bottles of red last night as a 'treat' because he'd had a good day. Admittedly I had 2 glasses from that quota. (sometimes I find that I join him to drink simply to keep the amount that he has down - madness!) He told me throughout the evening that he wasn't going back to it and not to worry - but also launched an attack telling me that I never let him go out and pursue his interests .... which couldn't be further from the truth - it seems that these conversations are just attacks on me - and cause stress and unhappiness.

But ... he took the children out for the day, and helps around the house. Things that I should feel grateful for (?). I fight with my instinct to leave him and the knowledge that I am denying the children to grow up with their Dad.

I took him to our GP and asked for help ... but he hides how bad he is and no-one will help - apparently he isn't bad enough. He went to an AA meeting - but because he isn't reaching for the bottle first thing in the morning, or passed out on a park bench he doesn't think he belongs.

I don't know where to turn, or what to do - but I am tired of living with this stress and constant knot in my stomach.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 14/08/2011 12:10

Littlemisspuddleduck

Where do you see yourself in a year's time with your H?. Do you see yourself ultimately divorcing him?

What are you getting out of this relationship now?.

You absolutely cannot drink any alcohol with your H; that is enabling him and his behaviour. At least you realise that.

What's the longest he's ever gone without drinking alcohol?. He last had 2.5 bottles of alcohol yesterday.

Your man does not currently want to change his behaviour; you as his wife are infact the last person who can help him and I do not mean that unkindly. He does not want your help and you've already tried lots of things to help him. His primary relationship is with alcohol and alcohol is a cruel mistress.

He like many alcoholics is mired in denial and that state may never change. You are stuck too in a dark place but you can free yourself. You need to remain stron and you really need support and help here. Al-anon for you would be a good place to start.

This is no life for you or your children; everything revolves around the drinker and his alcohol consumption. He is neither a good husband to you nor a good father to his children. He taking out his children for the day and helping around the house is far too little and far too late.

You have a choice here re him - your children do not. They do not need, warrant or deserve a drunkard father in their day to day lives. Alcoholic parents can and do harm children emotionally and the effects are not always apparant under adulthood and when they themselves form their own adult relationships.

Why did you go back last time, did he promise to change?.

One day your children will leave home. What sort of childhood memories do you want them to have?. Currently they are being taught damaging lessons by both of you.

littlemisspuddleduck · 14/08/2011 13:14

... truthfully .... I get very little out of this marriage. He puts a roof over our heads and food on the table.

We don't talk or laugh ... last night I was talking to him about something that interests me - and he walked away mid sentence ... which is why usually I don't bother talking. I feel tense around him.

I don't contribute to earnings, I gave up work to look after DC - but went back to college last year. I hope that this means that I will be financially independent some time in the future .... this is what I am working towards.

I have told him many times that I want out. He doesn't listen. We sold our old house and I told him I wanted to seperate ... he begged to move with us and promised to change - we gave it 6 months. 3 years later he is still here ... I have asked him to move since - but he doesn't listen. He thinks I am evil to think about seperation and that it wouldn't be fair on DC.

I resent him ... who he is ... and who he is turning me into ... I hate that he controls me and limits me ... I can't enjoy a glass of wine when I want to because of his problem.... that I have to put up with his bad moods and lack of social life ... and get the blame for everything.

When I'm not around him I am happy and have lovely friends .... I hide the reality.

Typing here is the first time I have put my feelings into words.... it's good to get it out ... but so, so sad.

pickgo · 14/08/2011 13:31

So in a nutshell you are staying because

  1. He pays the mortgage. You could rent and get housing benefit until you can earn enough.
  2. He pays for other stuff. OK in the short-term you'd have to tak a big drop in income and live on benefits - but you'd survive!
  3. He thinks you are 'evil' to think of separating. So no matter what your partner does you should stay together? Really?
  4. It wouldn't be fair on DCs. See above post - quite the opposite. It's not fair to stay and expose them to alc parent, tensions, unhappiness etc.

It is really sad, and takes some time to come to terms with. But you know what is needed here really I think? You may just need some time to think it over, absorb it and make a sensible plan that doesn't involve great chunks of your life/DCs childhood being laid waste.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 14/08/2011 13:38

Hi Littlemisspuddleduck,

You took a first and some would say hardest step by writing it down and telling someone, albeit an online forum. That is truly to your credit.

I thought he made promises to change, this is why I asked that question.
Such men never change however. Their primary relationship is with drink and everything and everyone else comes a dim and distant second.

Do you feel very responsible for your H?. How many times have you covered for him and or made excuses for his drinking?.

Do any of your friends know of your H's drink problem - I daresay not. I ask this as well as alcoholism thrives on secrecy. You need to start talking to someone (any sense of embarassment or shame on your part is very much misplaced) and as mentioned before Al-anon is a good place for you to start. You really do need real life support, please consider giving Al-anon a call.

Have you thought about getting some legal advice now; your H would still have to financially support his children in the event of divorce.

You only get one shot at this life and you and your children deserve a good life together. They certainly do not need a drunkard for a father in their everyday lives and you're all being emotionally harmed by him. They can still have a relationship with him if you separate and if they choose to.

As I also stated before, you have a choice re your H. Your children do not.

Snorbs · 14/08/2011 13:41

"You absolutely cannot drink any alcohol with your H; that is enabling him and his behaviour."

I disagree with that. If an alcoholic wants to drink then he/she is going to drink regardless of whether you are drinking or not.

"Enabling" is helping an alcoholic avoid the consequences of their choices by doing things for them that they could, and should, be doing for themselves. Cleaning up their drunken messes, giving them more money when they've pissed theirs up the wall, making excuses for them... That's all enabling. You having a drink because you're a grown-up and can make that kind of decision for yourself? That's not enabling, that's just realising that you are only responsible for your own behaviour, not someone else's.

That being said, I did pretty much stop drinking entirely with my alcoholic ex but that was because I could deal with the drunken aggression slightly better if I was stone-cold sober.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 14/08/2011 13:55

Hi Snorbs,

This was the rest of the post that made me write what I did re the non alcoholic drinking with the alcoholic.

"Admittedly I had 2 glasses from that quota. (sometimes I find that I join him to drink simply to keep the amount that he has down - madness!)".

It is her behaviour that I am questionning here; he would drink alcohol regardless. The codependent person drinking alcohol with the alcoholic is indeed enabling that behaviour. She was trying to police his drinking and that is itself not possible; that way madness lies.

Alcoholism is a family disease, it does not just affect the alcoholic but all those around them.

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