I thought I was being harsh but...

[skettle]

I posted a message about my DP and his spending habits a few days ago...I then felt guilty because he'd gone out and bought my boys a load of christmas presents...

I thought maybe I had been too hard on him and maybe I over-react to his spending and wasting money but since he's been paid Im starting to wonder if I was harsh or not. Basically as soon as he got paid he went out and signed up to a new mobile phone contract (remember his last one almost ended up in court because he didnt pay the bill and his contract was terminated). He then switched to pay as you go but then saw a phone that he "just needed to have" and so signed up to another contract to get the phone!

Another thing that has annoyed me is that he went out last night for a work christmas do and then ended up going clubbing afterwards (fair enough, I dont begrudge him that) BUT then he phones and tells me that when he comes down next weekend (we only get to see each other once a fortnight at the moment) we wont be able to go out or do anything as "money will be tight". He says this EVERY time he comes down and had promised that we would be able to go out next weekend and had even said that he was going to treat me to some new clothes, not that I expect him to do that, especially this close to christmas but it just shows how quickly everything is forgotten with him as soon as he lays his hands on money. We never go out as he never has any money and I can't afford to pay for us both. THEN he goes and tells me that he's decided to get a hire car for next weekend!? surely that would cost more than a night out?

We're supposed to be going for a meal next weekend with the kids and my mum etc and last night whilst he was telling me that next weekend will be tight he'd actually forgotten about this meal that has been booked and planned for months now. He's now promised he will have the money to go halfs on the meal but Im still annoyed at him. It's one thing after another with him.

Am I right to be annoyed or am I over-reacting?

(the full story behind his money problems can be found in the thread "getting sick of it all".

Agree with everyone else. He sounds about 12. But a 12 year old who has two mothers.

when i was that age - 25 - i got my wages and lived like a king for two weeks and a pauper for 2 weeks. this stopped simply because i 'grew up'. maybe he will grow up next year, maybe in 5 years, maybe never (there are plenty out there). You are obviously a proper 'adult' already skettle. i don;t think he will change because of anything you or his mum say - he will have to change for himself.

Cattle, even my 12yo is learning to balance his desire for gadgets with what he can actually afford out of his savings, pocket money etc. He is also aware that a blowout on a big item that proves less than dazzling (parallel with all those phones??) will not result in a financial bailing out, thus not enabling him to move on to yet another gadget. He has to live and learn and he respects that. he wouldn't dream of wheedling for extra money.
Skettle, described simply, if someone says they're finishing it with a partner for financial reasons, that sounds hard and grasping. But what you describe goes beyond money. It has ramifications for you, your self respect and your children. He does sound very immature and not really ready for an adult relationship.
You wouldn't be posting here to use Mumsnet as a sounding board if everything was funamentally ok...
Sorry I sound harsh but I think you know what all of us mean when we are telling you to be careful.

Hi skettle, you could almost be describing my dh there, and it has had huge consequences for our relationship, and is probably the main reason why we are now seperated (15 years down the line). It is very hard to be with someone who has essentially been spoilt by his parents. I think it unlikely that he will change until he has to stand on his own two feet, to be honest, and maybe not for some time after that. I just think it is incredibly hard for someone to take control of their own life and be responsible, when they know there is always a fall back position. The lesson here is to make sure that none of us do this to our own children. It is an incredibly disabling thing to do to someone. But don't beat yourself up about it. He probably isn't inherantly selfish (my dh too can also be very generous) or a bad person, but if you are the careful type your different attitudes will cause you huge grief. So if you are wanting an equal long term partnership you probably need to think about looking elsewhere. Your DP just isn't ready (why not get back in contact in five years time?)

skettle, I gather he is not the father of your children?
I personally would not invest any more in the relationship unless he proved that he can grow up fast. You know that you are responsible with your money - you deserve a partner who is the same. There are just so many danger signs here - living with his mum, plus the spending habits you mentioned. From what you describe, he just doesn't seem to be able to relate realistically to his income.

From the two threads I have read - he seems to treat you like a respite situation - bit of a change of scenery, a rest from being at home with mother.... and that is it - not a relationship - he is behaving as a single guy and not thinking of you at all.

If he keeps saying things will be tight this weekend - I would suggest as someone else does that he comes another weekend. As to the meal with the kids and your mum - I would simply go and say that you can't afford for him to come so he will have to either find the money or stay at home BUT you don't need to as you have budgeted to take your children out.

This is obviously bothering you and is a source of tension. He is not going to change - you have already obviously said things and nothing has changed.

You need to think long and hard if you want to keep investing time and energy into this. I think you will be spending your whole time bailing him out as his mother does and if that is what you want then by all means BUT i sense it is not what you want.

Do you really need all this frustration - plenty more fellas out there. At the moment you have a weekend off from caring for your children and spend it playing 'mother' to a grown adult... Why not spend that time getting out with your mates and having a good time... instead of all this worry and being harsh on yourself.

I used to work with someone who just had to have every new gadget that came out - you name it, he had one within a week of it appearing on the market

Last year he was declared bankrupt at the age of 23, owing £56,000 (yes I have typed that correctly) and he had basically nothing to show for it

He's not generous with his money, he's stupid. He buys you and the children things because it makes him feel like a big man. He needs to grow up and learn that with having a family comes responsibility. I'd love to have a new gadget every five minutes but have to put family first and be realistic.

Skettle, deep down, you DO know what this guy is like with money - if you re-read your posts, you'd see that you're answering your own questions:

You say: "Its not that he's selfish with his money, its just that he simply doesnt think when he is spending it all as soon as he gets it"

But then you say: "He keeps going on about wanting one of those new xbox's but we were supposed to be saving up to go on holiday next year...seems the xbox comes first." .....

..... and: "he is generous/kind when he has the money (if he has any left by the time he comes down). " ......

.... and also: "we could have gone out but he chooses his toys instead, thats what annoys me...plus I have always told him that I will pay for myself aslong as he pays for himself too."

Sorry - but his attitude to money absolutely SCREAMS selfishness at me!

You yourself say (in this and the previous thread):
a) that his "toys" come 1st
b) that you very often end up subbing him
c) that he's generous IF he has any money left over ....

.... that's a BIG if ! When does that happen exactly ? How often ?

What sort of "man" lets a single mum sub him, whilst spending £000s on luxury gadgets ????!!!

You ask if you're being too hard on him or if you are being selfish ...

.... surely from everyone's answers here and from what you say yourself, that the answer is a resounding NO !!! HE is being selfish, he's also being extraordinarily MEAN if he allows you to spend YOUR money (which could have been spent on treats for YOUR children) on him.

Right, what I'm going to say now might be very controversial and I don't want to offend you but your situation worries me hugely. Basically, this man is behaving like a prostitute - effectively, you are paying for the pleasure of his company, even though he is perfectly capable (were he not able to get away with it) of paying his own way. What do you think would happen on on of his many "tight" weekends if you told him that you couldn't afford for him to come ...... couldn't afford the extra food, or his half of the takeaway. WOULD he still come ?

So, the way it comes across to me is that you are paying someone little better than a prostitute ....... let me re-phrase that .... I think people like this are actually far worse than prostitutes, prostitutes are upfront and honest, and don't use emotional involvement to get their money.

I can't tell you how angry I feel on your behalf - especially as you have children. WE know - and YOU know too if you're honest, that you're being taken for a mug. No-one is that ignorant or thick-skinned not to realise that pleading poverty yet turning up in a flash hire car with assorted "must-have" gadgets, and expecting to have money lavished on them, is absolutely contemptuous behaviour. What sort of respect is he showing you - absolutely NONE whatsoever !

You say you don't think he's doing this intentionally ..... that's poppycock and you know it. He has a CHOICE about whether or not to leech off you and he CHOOSES to do so, in spite of the fact you're not well off and you have children to think of.

Don't kid yourself that because he's bought the very odd takeaway - or the children an occasional present, that he's not all of the things I've said. That pales into insignificance compared to his usual attitude.

I think this topic is less about whether or not he is selfish, and much more about YOU getting the courage to dump the usesless selfish freeloader.

Deep down - you do not WANT this man. I'm guessing though that you're scared of being on your own and that's why you look for excuses for him (but then contradict those excuses when you describe his behaviour). I know that many people dread being on their own - we've all been there - but you WILL meet someone else. It might not be for a couple of years but so what - it WILL happen, sooner or later. What does waiting matter, so long as you have your dignity ........ and in the meantime, on your own, without anyone else to account for (apart from your kids of course) you can do exactly what you want, and you will be relieved of the obvious stress and worry that precedes each time your b/f visits now. You won't get on edge wondering if he's got any money, you won't agonise about how he can "love" you yet treat you like this, you won't be emotionally blackmailed into paying for him so you can go out (or you have to stay in) .... in other words, although you'll undoubtedly feel sad at splitting up, you'll also get peace of mind, and believe me that outweighs the sadness.

You might dread the thought of having no-one to go out with (?) but you could start to get involved in new things, for yourself, where you'd make new friends, or join a gym etc., if being stuck indoors all the time is what's worrying you.

Please don't think I'm trying to patronise you by saying all this - I don't mean to .... but this guy is bad news, and chances are that he's going to take a long time to grow up. What's more, he probably won't grow up while he has you and his mother bailing him out. Who wants a 40 year old child who throws a strop 'cos they can't have the latest whatever it is ? .... that's what I can see you ending up with if you stick it out with him. I can also see you becoming exhausted, worried about bills, with 100% of the responsibility for them and incresaingly angry and resentful.

There ARE loads of guys out there who do NOT act like this and who are fair and pull their weight. Not easy to find if you're a single mum and have restrictions, I grant you, but I am a firm believer that there is someone out there for everyone - even if it takes a while to find them. There are also all sorts of social activities which do not necessarily have to involve a boyfriend.

PLEASE get rid ..... he doesn't respect you, and right now, you're not respecting yourself.

Sorry, but my answer would be that you cannot trust this man at all. He will not provide you and your boys with any kind of security. He doesn't even accept that he has a problem. If you carry on, pretty soon his debts will become your debts and you could find yourself in big trouble. Personally I would not risk this with my children.

Sorry, but I think you should let go and find someone who is more reliable. It's not worth the huge risk you'd be taking.