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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Did I f*ck up my marriage from the start?

58 replies

helpmecometoterms · 29/07/2011 15:08

I am going to be as honest as possible here and I am quite nervous about it actually.

H and I are splittingSad. We have been together for 9 years and have dc. We met and married very quickly, think months rather than years and for the first year or two were totally happy and in love. We had a dc around 18 months after we met up until the point of me being around 8 months pregnant I felt we couldn't have been happier.

When I was 8 months pregnant, he disappeared one day, went to work, didn't ring and didn't come home that night. He appeared the next day saying he had been at his parents (he was later that night but there was a whole afternoon and evening unaccounted for). A glitch I thought, but he did the same thing again the following weekend, I found out years later that had been the beginning of his first affair and from that point on things went completely downhill. He started drinking heavily, would disappear with his friends for days at a time, was being a total knob about money, I had left my job by then (temp though well paid, so no Mat Leave), wouldnt open a joint bank account etc. For the first few months that ds was here he would "take me" shopping each week, buy all the food etc, never quibbled about cost to be fair but would then spend the rest on himself. I literally had not a penny in my pocket. The benders carried on. He did nothing to help out, no housework ever, he was at work, all childcare and cleaning was my job.

Anyway moving on to years later, we sorted the money thing out, only in so much that he would give me an allowance each week that was approx one third of his wages, the rest he kept for himself. He would often disappear for days at a time, but it was never ok for me to go out and so on, blah, blah, blah. No option for me to get a job, childcare costs would wipe out my wages. Life was pretty much hell tbh. During this time I would find phone numbers and messages to other women on his phone, I found out he had been with prostitutes, he would spend all his money on going out and other women. In the end after months and months of despair I threw him out, he was awful about it, became physically violent towards me and I called the police and had him taken away. He has not lived here since then.

Now here is the rub. He is telling me that the whole breakdown of our marriage is MY fault. He says this because I kept in touch with a couple of old boyfriends (via email, and rarely). He says that because I met up with an ex boyfriend for a drink when H and I had been seeing each other for 2 DAYS that I showed how untrustworthy I was at that point and he should have left me then. My old job was a very male dominated environment and so yes, a lot of my old friends are men. I did have the occasional drunken snog with some of them as well. I have some of them as friends on Facebook and he has hacked my account and knows this. He says that he treated me the way he did because deep down he KNEW I was not trustworthy and was chasing old boyfriends around so he never took our marriage seriously and so had lots of affairs etc.

I feel like complete crap over this. There is no closure for me. I was treated horribly (I feel) but he honestly believes it was all my own fault. Please dont tell me to just forget it he is my ex etc, because I cant. I just cannot make sense of it all. Did I create this situation, did my marriage fail because of my "obsession" with exes? I certainly didnt feel obsessed but did like keeping sporadic contact with them because they were my friends much more than exes. Should I just have dumped all these people as soon as I got married? Please be honest with me because I feel really sick at the thought that it is me who is actually responsible for my treatment. Surely he could have left me and not treated me like this? Did I cause this. Please help me see clearly. I cant think about anything else. I am so sad.

OP posts:
headfairy · 29/07/2011 15:46

I think the fact that he's admitted to seeing prostitutes since he was 18 and has not really had a proper girlfriend before brings up a big red flag for me. He's obviously unable to form proper loving relationships. He does not see sex as something to be shared between loving people, but just something you do with women to get your rocks off. I think your xh has a deeply flawed personality.

AnnieLobeseder · 29/07/2011 15:47

Keeping in touch with old friends, even if they are exes, is not a sin and is no cause for disagreement in any stable, trusting, faithful relationship. You've been listening to his bullshit for so long you don't recognise what's normal any more.

Please listen to me carefully. You did nothing wrong. He was unfaithful to you, he finacially abused you, he emotionally abused you. He is 100% to blame for depriving himself of his children and his wife. There is simply no other way to look at this.

headfairy · 29/07/2011 15:48

Another big red flag for me: cutting you off from friends, people who would in all likelihood tell you he's a tosser.

You are most definitely better off without him.

WhereYouLeftIt · 29/07/2011 15:52

Seeing prostitutes since he was 18, before he'd had a real relationship?

Yes, it looks as if his attitudes to sex and relationships was fatally warped before you even met him, OP. Even basking in your adoration couldn't turn him around, he was set in his ways by then. Sad

Do not reproach yourself, you have done nothing to deserve this. He duped you and threw away your love with both hands.

BecauseImWorthIt · 29/07/2011 15:55

Of course it's not your fault. That is all you need to know and focus on. He is being a horrible, manipulative twat.

Joolyjoolyjoo · 29/07/2011 16:08

definitely definitely not your fault Angry

FWIW, I swanned off on holiday to see the solar eclipse with an old friend/ ex when i had been seeing DH for about 2wks. He wasn't overjoyed about it, apparently, but never made a murmur. if, in years to come, he was to bring it up as something that ruined our marriage, and caused him to turn into a controlling, cheating, messed-up knob, i would quite honestly laugh in his face.

It says a lot about your DH's control over you that you would even give the idea of it being your fault headroom.

HerHissyness · 29/07/2011 16:15

Sweetheart! Can you feel my arms reach through the screen? I want to give you a massive hug. You have been through hell.

Everyone is right (well except that ferret person Hmm) Grin, your EX is a nasty piece of work, and you are well shot of him.

As for needing closure, you are right, you do need to deal with this.

Your Ex is an abusive man. No doubt there. From the second you clapped eyes on him, the red flags were there fluttering insanely from the outset. The fast heat up of the relationship, the money, the affairs, the alcohol, all of it is absolute Abusive Male text book.

You need to be let into a secret or 50. They are pretty much ALL the same. Just as cheats work to an Infidelity script, these bullies work to an Abuse Script.

We can all sit here and tell you it's not your fault, and it isn't. but you have to believe it. To believe it you need to understand the dynamics at play here.

Read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. I promise you, you will understand what went on in your relationship, and that it was not YOUR doing at all. This book will explain the dynamics and you will feel free at last!

Remember He chose that path, and he stripped you of all power to prevent it. he dazzled you with an image of him that was just smoke and mirrors. He got you hooked on that image, so you spent the remainder of your relationship chasing who you thought he was, only not realising that he never was that person. That was pure salesman patter, designed to get you where he wanted you and nothing more.

I was scared to read the book, thought it was going to be harrowing. It couldn't have been further from it, it was liberating, it explained everything and has kept me in the real world, with a firm grasp of the truth, and able to see through his mind games, manipulations and control techniques.

There is a support thread for those in Abusive Relationships, www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1265879-Support-for-those-in-emotionally-abusive-relationships-3 There are many, many, many, MANY women who have been through what you have been through, and some still are tbh, but we all support each other, boot bottoms when needed and hug and pass round Wine when required.

TrickyBiscuits · 29/07/2011 16:15

NO op, no you didn't fuck up your marriage. I don't know how to express that more emphatically.

You have been abused and manipulated for years. The fact that you are believing this shite from him now is evidence of that IMO.

garlicbutter · 29/07/2011 16:16

What???!!!!

Dear lord, he has done a number on you Angry

No, it's not your fault. You were unfortunate enough to marry an abuser, thinking he was a normal guy with real feelings. Please read the emotional abuse threads on here, get "Why Does He Do That" by Lundy Bancroft and start rebuilding your sense of what's real.

Poor you. x

ImperialBlether · 29/07/2011 16:35

Of course it wasn't your fault! You married a particularly nasty man - unfortunately you were in love with him, but that doesn't mean he was nice.

How long has it taken him to come up with the fact that you're to blame? He didn't blame you that first night that he didn't come home, did he? He waited until the police evicted him for violent behaviour. He waited until he was so obviously in the wrong, then tried to make out it was all your fault.

If I were you, I'd only deal with him via a solicitor. He's absolutely horrible and doesn't deserve one more minute of your attention.

Huffythetantrumslayer · 29/07/2011 17:02

He sounds like a complete and utter knobber and I think you can honestly reassure yourself that you did nothing to fuck your marriage up. You're well shot of him.

helpmecometoterms · 29/07/2011 18:56

Thank you for all your kind messages. My Mum has been saying all this and more for a long time now but your mum is always on your side isn't she? It is very helpful to read other people saying it too.

The thing is I am not sure that he is pretending to feel this way. I honestly think he has made himself believe that it is true. He has certainly told other people this, which I don't really care about as I don't have to see those people if I don't want to but it made me think that maybe some people would really see my behaviour as wrong.

It has been really helpful posting here.

OP posts:
helpmecometoterms · 29/07/2011 19:00

HerHissyness I will take a wander over to the EA thread. I am never sure that it is EA with him because he seems so bloody sure of himself. It is not like an act with him, it is like "this is the RIGHT way to be". Also I tend to think that EA people are like it with everyone but he certainly isn't with the dc and no-one else really, although he doesnt really have close relationships with anyone else apart from me and I suppose work colleagues and drinking buddies. I will be interested to see what he is like with a new partner, he tells me he has learned his lesson with me and if he had only been able to trust me from the start, he would never have behaved like this, which is really rubbish to hear tbh.

But anyway, new resolution, stop listening to EX!

OP posts:
buzzsore · 29/07/2011 19:16

I don't think abusive men are acting or pretending, much of the time - they're masters at bullshitting themselves first and you after - it comes from a place of engrained warped thinking.

Thomas1969 · 29/07/2011 20:20

Is it all your fault? No. Is he a grown man who has control over his body? Yes. I dont know this piece of shit but I think Ive met him in other people. You have no reason to feel like crap for what he chose, as an adult, to do. You are entitled to have as many male friends as YOU want to have. He is suspicious of this only because he is a liar and expects everyone else is too. Physical, verbal and emotional violence are the tools of a person who has to control. There is simply NO place or excuse or place for them in what should be a loving relationship. His giving you just enough cash is more controlling behaviour. What a pittiful little bastard he sounds. That you feel responsible for his actions isnt surprising but I hope it doesn't last long.Is it all your fault? No. Is he a grown man who has control over his body? Yes. I dont know this piece of shit but I think Ive met him in other people. You have no reason to feel like crap for what he chose, as an adult, to do. You are entitled to have as many male friends as YOU want to have. He is suspicious of this only because he is a liar and expects everyone else is too. Physical, verbal and emotional violence are the tools of a person who has to control. There is simply NO place or excuse or place for them in what should be a loving relationship. His giving you just enough cash is more controlling behaviour. What a pittiful little bastard he sounds. That you feel responsible for his actions isnt surprising but I hope it doesn't last long.

PeppaIsBack · 29/07/2011 21:21

I fully agree with HerHissyness. It does sound like EA a lot.

Don't be fooled that he is doing that only with you and not with others. That's what EA abusers do to (Just as you usually don't see people hitting their wife hitting other people in the street). It works because it's all happening behind closed doors.

The other thing abut your story is how your H is not taking any responsability at all for his behaviour. And this is NOT right. He is the one who had some affairs, went to see protitutes. No one put a gun on his head and 'made' him do it. All the time he had the CHOICE to do it or not to do it.
If it really bothered him so much then he should ahve said so as any civilized person would do.
And if you actually had snogged one/some of them in a drunken night or even had an emotional affair with one of them, exchanging emails etc... (which I know is NOT the case) then the normal way to react is to talk to you, get divorced but not going to shag someone else.

So to answer your question, NO YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE OF HIS BEHAVIOUR IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM

HerHissyness · 29/07/2011 22:51

Emotional Abusers will turn the charm on with those that they need to do stuff for them, those they need to impress.

At the beginning this was YOU. You had the full force of the Charminator! However, once you are conquered, he doesn't have to go to all that effort to be nice anymore, so he stops. The faster a relationship heats up, the more dangerous it is, and the faster it cools down.

His NICE is what he puts on, to get what he wants. He will be very careful to create a super illusion, so that everyone HE knows thinks he is wonderful. But YOUR friends, people that are important to YOU will not see this uber-charm, they will rarely see him, or he'll be withdrawn, or even argumentative.

All of your energy is spent walking on egg shells trying to keep him content. Which of course you can't, because goal posts are moved. Rugs are pulled. Confusion is a great controlling technique.

I think there could be an element of these clowns believing their own bullshit, but I prefer to think that they actively choose to seek out what to destroy, who to be nice to, who not to be, because it de-humanises them and means I stay focussed on keeping them at arms length, and beyond my belief in them.

I'm 5 months into separation after 10 long and literally tortuous years... my thinking they are conscious of it all is working for me at the moment! Keeps me focussed and disengaged from his BS. At the end of the day, it's what works for any of us to wean ourselves off the poison they have been pumping into us all this time. It's a hard habit to break, but it must be broken.

garlicbutter · 29/07/2011 23:04

Hissy - everyone HE knows thinks he is wonderful. But YOUR friends, people that are important to YOU will not see this uber-charm, he'll be withdrawn, or even argumentative.

Just "Oh!" Shock
Thank you VERY much! D'you know, I noticed this. I even found myself preparing for the crapness: anticipating which of my friends he'd consider useful and be nice to; which ones he'd blank or sneer at so I'd have to nurture them more. But I never, ever, put two and two together.

I'm glad there are so many EA threads at the moment - not for the OPs, obviously. But, for myself, I've got lightbulbs going off like fireworks! I'm also having endless uncomfortable flashback responses - with all the lightbulbs, though, they're making logical sense and that will speed my recovery.

garlicbutter · 29/07/2011 23:27

Sorry for hijacking, terms, but it is sort of relevant to your original post. I think the behaviours are deliberate & conscious, but the motivation is unconscious. Manipulation has its place - like when I was deciding how to manage my guests, as above, for example, and when you're extra helpful to someone who's going to be helpful to you. But your abuser has a faulty world-view. He is unaware of normal reciprocity, it doesn't compute for him. Everything in his world is a battle; a win-lose game. So they do what they do knowingly but are unable to do things any other way.

I explained to XH what Machiavellian means, as people kept telling him he was! I even bought him a modern translation of The Prince. He loved it - but simply couldn't get what I was trying to tell him: that Machiavelli didn't treat his close relationships like this. He was a consultant, it was his job to know & teach power games. XH absolutely couldn't see the difference between being professionally Machiavellian and living the whole of your life as a war.

Anyway, he wasn't all that good at Machiavellian manoeuvres - he was too thick Grin

caramelwaffle · 30/07/2011 00:15

"Add message | Report | Message poster BalloonSlayer Fri 29-Jul-11 15:45:0

All that's happened is that he's finally realised that he has fucked up his whole marriage with his repulsive behaviour. However, his ego cannot allow him to see himself as the bad guy. So, in his head, it HAS to be your fault."

Absolutely.

And also this from herhissyness:

" He got you hooked on that image, so you spent the remainder of your relationship chasing who you thought he was, only not realising that he never was that person. That was pure salesman patter, designed to get you where he wanted you and nothing more."

Not your fault, at all!

HerHissyness · 30/07/2011 09:26

"I think the behaviours are deliberate & conscious, but the motivation is unconscious."

Oh garlic! THANK YOU! I think that is it. X keeps saying he didn't mean to do any of it.. but that's bull.

He knew what he was doing, he meant what he was doing, he just didn't know why, and as my thoughts/feelings/opinion meant nothing, no matter what I said about what he'd done, it didn't matter.

His need/compulsion to destroy was more important than my feelings, his actions were justified, his entitlement greater. (to him)

Wow! Firework display set to music!

floyjoy · 30/07/2011 10:17

OP -sorry you're going through this (and been going through it for years). Blaming you is just another way to abuse you. Affairs, prostitutes, controlling you financially - that's abuse. An abusive relationship and the ending of any relationship can both create a feeling of helplessness. It's natural to try and deal with that by trying to get control of things but don't take control by taking the blame that your X is chucking your way. The marriage is over so blaming you, making you feel it was your fault he had sex with prostitutes is one of the few ways he can abuse and hurt you. Don't let him.

He sounds like a total shit, a terrible partner and an appalling role model for his children. You are better off without him (well done for that). You deserve better. Don't let him make you feel bad any more. - He's not your husband any more. Counselling might help you reframe what has happened and help you feel stronger and more positive about yourself and the future.

Pancakeflipper · 30/07/2011 10:33

He's never been honest with you. He's had 2 lives. No one can have a happy successful relationship like this.

Head up OP. You've done brilliantly in a real shitty situation. And it's going to be tough ( but it's already crap) but you are going to a have a fantastic future with your DC. Your husband will just go round stuffing up his life dragging anyone whose involved in his life down with him.

pickgo · 30/07/2011 10:34

Great posts from Herhissy, Garlic and Floyjoy. Listen to them OP! Smile

Just posted on another thread about the dangers of your 'internal script'. You know, that inner voice that goes on and on saying 'what if I'd done this or that', 'why can't I make him see this or that' etc. We all have them and I think a certain amount of that inner voice going round and round is inevitable. Ultimately it helps us process all that has happened.

But you have to watch that that inner voice doesn't turn into a self-critical, self-reproachful one that starts to skew your thinking and make you responsible for everything that went wrong. In your case OP it seems to be his voice that has taken over in your head, accusing you in his terms. Get rid of it. Stop listening to his voice in your head. He obviously was NOT justified in behaving as he did. Would you behave like that? Of course not.

You sound like a kind, intelligent person that has had the misfortune to have married an absolute horror who sucked you in with a load of bs. But you are out of it now. So look forward and be proud that you have got out of it for you and your DC.

tb · 30/07/2011 13:06

"So, he carried on going to prostitutes, secure in the knowledge (his) that he couldn't pass on anything to either you or your dc?"

What parallel universe has the utter moron been inhabiting? I seem to remember a case recently when a man was jailed for deliberately infecting his sexual partner(s) with herpes. There was another case a few years ago, where the same thing happened, only that time it was aids. If the mother has unknowingly contracted an sti, and is pregnant, doesn't know about the illness and hasa vaginal birth, the baby can contract the disease during childbirth.

What a complete and utter bastard. You are well rid.

Take care

Hugs

tb