God I am just so confused. Someone please help me.

[madonnawhore]

Please help me. I just don't know what to do for the best. This will probably be long, sorry.

Bit of background: Been with boyfriend for 9 months. His ex left him and took his daughter with her although he has regular access and sees her a lot. We met very soon after his split, completely randomly. I was also recently out of an emotionally abusive relationship, but I don't have any kids. I have met his DD, but she thinks I'm a friend. I've never spent the night at his when she's been there.

Anyway, he's A Good Guy. Not malicious or unkind in any way. But he's thoughtless. And maybe a bit emotionally inept.

I kind of snapped at him the other night because I feel like he's been getting too comfortable (or stopped caring) and I feel a bit taken for granted.

The thing that set it all off was that he's going on holiday with his family for a week. What with the weekends he's got his DD and this holiday, last night was the only time I had with him for about the next 2.5 weeks. And I hadn't seen him for almost a week before that. So out of 3 weeks in total, we've had one night together. And he went to the gym.

I got really upset. Because, despite knowing he wasn't going to see me for two and a half weeks, there was no, 'but let's make plans to do something with DD the weekend I'm back', or anything like that. Just, 'see you in two weeks'.

So I basically said that if it wasn't for the fact that there was this whole complicated situation with the break-up with his ex and his DD, I would have taken the hint by now and would probably be thinking there's no point me hanging round as it's obvious he doesn't really want to involve me in his life.

I said that of course I understood it was difficult for him juggling so many relationships - his ex, his ex's parents, his DD, me, his mum, his dad, his step family (who he's going on holiday with) - but at the same time, I feel like I deserve to be a bit more of a priority.

I try SO hard to be easy going about things and I never give him a hard time about the big gaps we spend apart when he's with his DD, but I'm getting to the point now where, if it's going to be like this forever, I don't think I can go on. I need more from him.

When he's with his DD, quite often we'll go days without speaking. He says he's forgetful generally with phoning and stuff, which is true. But even if that means I shouldn't take it personally, it's still not good enough.

But then, when we're together, he's fantastic. Really kind, loving, attentive, etc. It's just the total lack of spontaneous contact when we're apart that makes me feel really insignificant.

I'm especially pissed off because when we spoke before he went on holiday he said he'd promise to call and be better with staying in touch while he's away. I told him to let me know when he arrived at the house. He's been there since this morning and I haven't heard anything. You'd think that after our chat he'd be sure to at least text me.

But then, he's with his DD and his family he hasn't seen in ages and maybe I'm being unreasonable expecting him to check in with me the second he gets there. This is my problem. For everything I get upset about, I can come up with a perfectly rational argument as to why I might be being unreasonable. BUT I JUST WANT SOME MORE OF HIS ATTENTION!

Anyway, after I'd said all this to him he then told me he thought I was amazing and he loved spending time with me and thought I was terrific and wanted to keep on spending time with me, etc. All the right things.

But he said he also feels like he has this huge hole where something's been ripped away from him and he finds it difficult to fully open up. And he was really sorry it was making me upset but he didn't know what to do about it or how to get that part of him back.

I can only guess at what the pain must be like when a parent is separated from their child. You guys will know better than I would. I know he misses his DD terribly when they're not together and he's obviously still devastated about the splitting up of his family. More than I realised probably, because he never talks about it.

Also, he's probably still in love with his ex. Maybe? He says he's not but he would say that wouldn't he?

So then I said, if he was just asking me to bear with him while he rode out the grief, I could do that.

But if he was saying he'd never be able to offer me any more than the way things are at the moment, then I need to think about what my next move is.

He said he was asking me to bear with him. He said 'I'm not saying that nothing's going to happen in the future' (meaning = this relationship could go somewhere), but that right now he just felt hollow. But: 'I think you're amazing, I want to keep spending time with you. In the mean time let's just have fun'.

What does 'have fun' mean? That's like the worst sentence ever. The problem is that I'm in love with him and I want to know whether we have a future. And he can't tell me. Is that a reason to break up? I'm not sure I can just 'have fun' when I need to know that stuff. But it's only been 9 months. Is that my own insecurities making me too intense?

So that's where we are. Him still devastated and getting over the break up of his family, and me feeling like I'm compromising my needs and taking a gamble on him that it will be worth it in the end.

Should I bear with him? How long should I do it for? How will I know when he's over it? Will he ever be? What if it takes ages and then it doesn't work and I'm alone and childless!? Was I out of order for giving him a hard time when he's really only trying his best in what must be an awful situation for him?

Or should I end it? Does the fact that he's not called me today, despite me telling him how I feel, mean that he's just not prepared or able to make the effort I need? Or am I being needy and mental?

Should I end things and give him a chance to sort his emotional shit out and come back to me if/when he's ready? Is that really drastic? I want to be there for him but not at the detriment of my own happiness.

Also, my defences are up because of my own shitty past relationship, so as soon as I feel I'm being treated any less than I deserve, I get a massive 'leave' sign flashing in my head, when maybe there's a less drastic way to approach it.

Well done if you've made it this far.

I was also recently out of an emotionally abusive relationship

This might be relevant.

Perhaps you are not ready yet. Maybe you need some time alone to reflect and heal.

I honestly think when a serious, long term relationship ends most people benefit from a self imposed, not too brief, period of singledom.

It is hard to be mopping up the detritus of one relationship while managing the setting of ground rules for a new one, all at the same time.

Overlapping the two tasks is almost inevitable to some degree, and can be something of a spanner in the works.

I would agree that spending time alone especially after a previous abusive relationship is really important and something not enough people do. I've been single for more than 2.5 years and in that time have learned so much about myself. The person I am today is a million miles away from who I was 2 years ago - stronger, happier.

Read back your OP. It screams of you being a bit needy. It all seems to be about what he does for you. How much attention he gives you, how loved (or not) he makes you feel.

You also mention a lot about what your bf is going through, how he is coping with his break up, but very little about you - how do you feel after your abusive relationship? What are you doing to heal yourself? Why do you want to leap straight into another commitment already?

If I were you, I'd be inclined to stay away from relationships until such times as you are genuinely happy alone. Happiness has to come from you first. You really can't find it in other people. Are you getting out and doing other things? Are you pursuing a life of your own away from this relationship?
From the sounds of things you bf is trying to be honest with you about his feelings. Don't underestimate (for both of you) how long it takes to heal after a break up.

Slow down......there's no rush :)

Madonna, this relationship is not helping you re-build your life, it is feeding your anxieties and you are now feeling out of control.

Your previous abusive relationship is highly significant.

This relationship with a guy who is still heavily emotionally invested in his previous relationship will only rip you to pieces. He's not crying on your shoulder about it, because he still has her to talk to. He's going on holiday with her, you yourself suspect he's still in love with her, so he is definitely NOT emotionally available for you.

This will have the effect of you hankering after his time like a crack addict after their fix. Also like the abuse victim hankering after the 5 minutes of Mr Nice before Mr Beat-You-Into-Next-Week pitches up.

Look at this relationship HARD and look at the similarities. This is not the relationship you need. You need someone to be there for you, to support your discovery that not all men are bastards, that they are there for you and do what they say they will do.

OK so this guy is not making booty calls at midnight, but TBH I see that this relationship is totally on HIS terms, and you are there when HE wants/needs you, and not the other way around. It's kind of like you are a Mate of his, a good mate, but one he sleeps with.

If you carry on with everything as it is, it won't get any better any time soon. You end this, it may be the jolt he needs to sort it out. If he doesn't then you have lost nothing really, you are now free to find someone that IS ready to love you. You need the time to yourself, probably a year, to learn to love yourself, and to be happy with the person you have become.

The weird thing is, up until the thing about the holiday, I had been feeling really happy in our relationship.

I have always known he's a bit scatty and crap with phoning and stuff (his mum gets really frustrated with him about this too). And although I felt like it would be nice if he was a bit more forthcoming with the contact, it didn't bother me as much as it suddenly does now. I can't really put my finger on what's changed.

During our conversation I said about how I feel he doesn't call me enough (although we do IM quite a lot) and he looked a bit confused and reminded me that only two days before, he had skyped me while he was with his DD and the three of us had had a nice video chat. I couldn't argue with that. And I suddenly felt really silly and needy.

But then my brain was like BUT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SEE EACH OTHER FOR 2.5 WEEKS AND HE DOESN'T SEEM THAT BOTHERED.

WTF is wrong with me? Why have I suddenly lost it? This time last week, I was feeling totally calm and happy with everything, despite having my eyes fully open about all the messy stuff.

This week I am a mess. Maybe I got lulled into a false sense of security because things were superficially going really well and then the 'not bothered about not seeing me for 2.5 weeks thing' just brought me back to the reality that he isn't as emotionally present in this relationship as I am?

Do you have children?

Thanks Hissy.

Just to be clear - he's not going on holiday with the ex, just his family and DD.

I know what you mean about the relationship being on his terms. I do feel that sometimes, it is. Although he's very good about meeting my friends, and doing stuff with me. He is involved in my life, I'm just not really involved in his.

Also, I have probably made the mistake of bending over backwards to make things easy for him. He's the one who has to drive an epic commute to work every morning and he's the one who still has to stay on top of shopping and washing DD's clothes and stuff even when she's not at his house. However, I'm just me. I'm portable and have no ties. I can leave my flat for weeks at a time and it doesn't matter. Right now I have some milk and an onion in my fridge.

Over time it's just become easier for me to be the one to compromise. Probably because I have nothing else to do! When he's not with me, he has DD so he's busy with her. When he has DD, I have loads of time to do whatever I want with my friends and stuff, so when he's free, I'm ready to spend time with him.

It does feel a little like I am some kind of weird mistress. But the other woman isn't his wife, it's his daughter.

Which brings me back round to my original point that this is only going to change if he decides to bring me more into his life. But am I being unreasonable to want that to happen after only 9 months? Even without the attendant heartbreak, 9 months is quite soon to start merging new partner and child isn't it?

I really cannot tell how much of this is me being needy.

You are out of control Madonna, for your own sake, you need to end this. it's not doing you any good. You are not ready.

He ISN'T being attentive enough. the skype thing is not enough FGS, not when you are going to be away.

Thing is, you are right he is going away for 2.5 weeks and he ISN'T that bothered about you. He is not relying on you to get the support, love and friendship we all need, he has his family, his ex to supply him with attention, and he has you. in that order.

OK so his DD trumps every one, but I still think you are getting short-changed, even without your past.

Him calling you is a whole kettle of fish to skyping a person described to his DD as a friend. That for me smacks of gaslighting tbh, or at the very least deflection away from a justified comment.

You are going to get hurt, burnt perhaps if you continue with this. He's not in the right place, and you need reassurance, he's not able to give that. You deserve better than this.

Also, just to clarify, he has a fine and civil relationship with his ex, but they don't talk to each other about anything other than what's going on with DD.

There's no soul searching conversations or anything like that going on. It's all very functional.

A lot of the time when he picks up and drops off DD, he does it via DD's grandparents.

I dunno if that's relevant or not. Just to give you the full picture.

What you said about hankering after his time like a crack addict, Hissy, did strike a chord though.

Ah, someone else had a P with holiday with ExW/DD - sorry, confused myself!

MW, you have lost yourself in this relationship, you only exist part time, you have dropped everything in your life for him. You can leave your flat for weeks at a time and it doesn't matter. Where are your friends, your family? do you leave all of them for weeks at a time too?

recognise any traits here? But this time your life has been given up, by you, not taken from you. You are still trying to placate/please a DP. You are re-living abused victim status.

You liken his Dd to his DW, I get that, and you are the OW, I understand, but that is a piss-poor existence, and so not what you or your self esteem needs.

I don't know what to suggest, but I really believe this relationship is not healthy for you.

Ah, OK, but then he is just plain emotionally distant then... you are still not figuring in his life to any really significant extent. Not enough. by a long chalk.

MW, is it possible you are reacting so strongly to this holiday because of sub conscious messages from him pointing to a pulling away in the face of your very intense feelings for him ?

Is there part of you that is expecting a call saying, "sorry, but this isn't working for me" ?

Those are useful questions hissy.

Umm ... I honestly don't drop everything in my life for him. The time he spends with DD that I'm not included in gives me loads of time to see my friends and family. Sometimes when I see them he comes along too and it's always really nice and fun.

It's just that it's not reciprocated. Can't be reciprocated. Once in a while I will go to a museum or a park with him and his DD, but it's not regular.

Re: the flat thing, I've always been a bit nomadic. I get really itchy when I'm in one place for too long. I think a psychoanalyst would say that was maybe symptomatic of constantly trying to run away from something. I do feel like that sometimes. Like I prefer to be constantly moving and transient.

Anyway, I digress.

The OW analogy is a really good one. When I'm with him it's lovely. When we're apart I feel lonely and not like I'm in a relationship.

But quite simply, I don't want to end it. I love him. I am scared to end it. I will miss him terribly. I don't think I could do it. That's where the lack of control thing comes from isn't it? Because I feel unable to take control. Not because of him, but because I'm not brave enough.

He is just a lot busier than you by the sounds of it, his weekends seem to be spent either with you or his daughter. When he has his daughter you have plenty of time to think about your relationship, when he is with her he probably doesn't have a spare moment to himself.

He sounds like a responsible dad and good on him for not introducing you as a girlfriend so soon after his split from her mum. He is obviously still deciding if there is a proper future between the pair of you before introducing you as his official girlfriend. This is a good thing, however, if it doesn't happen in the next 6 months or so I would say he has no intention of making things serious and you would be better to move on.

fastweb, it's possible. But the confusing thing about that is that when we're together, it feels lovely. He's very affectionate and we get on really well. We talk and we laugh a lot together.

Then he picks up DD and it's like radio silence.

We're planning a camping trip in a couple of weeks and we're taking his DD with us. When we spoke on the phone the other night, after The Conversation, he was talking about our plans for that trip and things he'd bought for DD for camping and stuff.

Is he pulling away? I don't know. Possibly. But then it's just as possible he's got comfortable and stopped making as much effort.

Need to think more on that one.

You're madly in love so every emotion is felt so intensely, if you didn't love him you'd be more blasé about the whole thing.

I wouldn't end a relationship if I was madly in love - I'd take what I was given.

Lol JIRkids very succinct, but also you have grasped the situation totally!

He is busier than me.

I realise that sounds like I need to get a life, but believe me I DO have a life. I travel lots, I have very good friends who I see often, I see my family lots. But yeah, I do only have myself to think about, so I have too much brain space. He doesn't have any brain space or time for himself really. And he has a lot of people he needs to juggle and keep happy.

God, now I feel bad and like I'm being selfish.

Have come full circle I think. Thanks all for your brilliant answers and for making me ask tough questions of myself. I really appreciate it.

filthyfunk I'm not sure I'd be happy to continue to just 'take what was given'. That feels like a poor offer.

BUT I do understand that that's kind of what I'm doing at the moment.

The thing is that I've asked him whether this is all that's ever going to be on offer and he's said he would like it to be more but he can't say right now. But he enjoys spending time with me and wants to keep doing it so please can I bear with him.

JIRkids is right. The next 6 months will be important ones.

if you're just out of a bad relationship then i'm surprised that you are wanting more from this relationship right now... are you not also requiring some time to yourself, to rebuild your sense of self, decide where you are in life and what you want?
travel, think about your work, where you live, what you do...

i have never understood people who go from one relationship straight into the next, i always took a year or more to refind myself between relationships.. i see it sometimes happens that you meet someone 'too soon' but if you do then surely you can take it slowly...?

Yeah, but the radio silence thing, presumably he has time when DD is in bed, and he could at least text you?

You do have a fulfilled life, great, but now you have put the OW analogy out there, it shrieks of this.

Yes he IS a good man at not introducing you to his DD too soon, he is a good dad etc etc, but he's being a rubbish partner for whatever reason.

You - precisely because of your past - need more.

Your But I love him cuts no ice with me and shouldn't do with you either. we all said that when our abusive exes were placing us on lock down, you are out of control in this relationship, lack the strength and bravery to get things back to an equal footing, once he has settle his life/work/ex balance you think suddenly you will be able to call the shots?

No, you won't.

One, because you have conditioned yourself into the joyful puppy delighted at any bone he has for you, and two, he's used to having everything HIS way exclusively, with you just fitting in with HIS life. You start exerting any kind of authority, or stating an opinion that isn't 100% compatible with his plans and it'll grate and you will cease to be the malliable and amenable person he thinks you are.

Use this time apart to really think about what YOU are getting out of this relationship, and for the love of GOD ban yourself from the But I love 'im phrase, that bloody phrase alone is the senseless reason why women put up with all manner of shite just to feel they belong to someone, anyone, so long as they are not alone.

Being alone is better than knowing you are not important enough for a text or a 5m phone call.

malleable, sorry!

"The thing is that I've asked him whether this is all that's ever going to be on offer and he's said he would like it to be more but he can't say right now. But he enjoys spending time with me and wants to keep doing it"

I think that's a cop out, but I am a cynical old witch.

"i see it sometimes happens that you meet someone 'too soon' but if you do then surely you can take it slowly...?"

This is exactly right. And where I am going wrong is I am not taking it slowly.

After my break up I did a couple of months of travelling by myself and then had counselling. I thought I was doing all the right things and then one evening I went to a party and... BAM he was there.

But you are right. I need to do more work on myself. And I have the time and space within this relationship to do that. I'm just choosing not to and freaking out instead.

I'd stay with him if I loved him. Your relationship will either improve, ( fantastic ) or you'll get tired/bored of all the waiting around and finish with him ( pride intacto ) - but as it stands atm - yes, I'd definately stay. What's the alternative? You finish with him and spend the rest of your life pining for what might have been?

MW, why are you freaking out? Love shouldn't be this much hard work.

Why are you so willing to compromise in your relationship? Why are you willing to set your life aside for weeks at a time to be with someone who has told you he doesn't want anything more than fun just now?

Does this relationship give you more good than bad?

Spend more time with yourself. Until you are in the frame of mind where you are so happy with your life that you would be reluctant to let a bloke rock up and "spoil" it, then you might want to just be single. Honestly, you are way over invested here.

Okay, I could go on and on and on because your situation sounds SO MUCH like mine last year. But I'll be succinct because it's pretty clear and simple, sadly:

You should ignore his words and look at his actions.

You should not assume anything is going to change or that he will ever be any different than he is now.

You should ask yourself honestly whether the situation as it is now will be enough for you, now and always.

You should look at why you got involved with this person, at this time, when you are at this point in your life in terms of needs you have an how your last relationship has affected you. (This may be what Reality on MN calls settling for a level 2 bastard instead of a level 10.)

How he is when you are together (sweet, nice etc) isn't the 'real' him and the ensuring lack of thoughtfulness and contact a 'barrier' in the way that you need to 'break down' with your love and understanding. When he doesn't think of you, or seem to care, that's also him being himself. This is who he is. He's trying to tell you something by his actions towards you - listen.

And you may well want to read both this and possibly also this.

Take care. You will drive yourself literally insane if you stick with this. Trust me, I was there too and it's like hell on earth.