DM's constant criticism

[Xiaoxiong]

I know in the grand scheme of things this is not a big deal, especially on this board where people have real problems. But it is really getting me down and poor DH has heard enough of my venting, so I turn to Mumsnet for support. I've read many threads about narcissistic mothers but I don't think my mother is in that category - she is just relentlessly, unceasingly critical and I am reaching the end of my tether.

She has always exhorted me (and other family members) to "push out the envelope", "don't rest on your laurels" etc. and feels that if she gives any of us any praise it will mean we will be complacent and stop achieving. She refused to come to my brother and my university graduations, saying she couldn't see the point of making a big song and dance out of something that should be expected as a matter of course. (This is just one example, in the interests of keeping this short.)

She is obsessed with making money, not because she is materialistic but because she sees it as a safety net. This is reasonable up to a point but now I cannot have a conversation with her without her criticising me for not making enough money and running my own company. I am a City lawyer, DH and I both love our jobs and we earn over £100k a year combined - we have no debt, save huge amounts and know we are incredibly lucky to be financially secure at the moment. For 27 I think I'm doing fine, she says I have low expectations of myself and should push myself harder.

She is equally obsessed with weight - admittedly she just lost some weight and went from a 14 to a 10/12 but she has many times told me that I would lose my job because I was so overweight. I am a perfectly happy and healthy size 10/12 - even when I was cycling 30 miles to work every day last year she criticised my weight. Now I am pregnant she tells me each time she sees me I am putting on too much weight and will get pre-eclampsia and the baby will have serious medical complications. At 20 weeks I have put on about 7kg, bang on what the midwife recommended. Her reaction to this is to say that English people are the fattest in Europe and said the midwife was probably fat and that had skewed her judgement. She took a picture of me last week standing sideways to send to my brother and then shook her head, saying gloomily "if you're this size now...just wait..." and has been sending me links to gestational diabetes sites and big baby syndrome and how the baby will get too big and I will have a difficult birth. (I do not have GD and have no risk factors for anything.)

There are so many others but the last straw happened yesterday - she has decided that we have "too much crap" in our flat and that she will not come over until we "get rid of everything". (Needless to say half of what we have belongs to my parents as we are storing it for them while they live abroad.) Our flat can get a bit messy over the week but we have a cleaner 3 hours a week, do washing once a week, pick up when we have time, etc. We do make sure kitchen counters and most surfaces are clean but this is not sufficient apparently. She has said it would be irresponsible to have a baby with a flat that is "so full of crap".

So she has organised a man and van to come to our house this weekend to "pick up all the crap we want to get rid of, take to a charity shop or the dump". When it was pointed out that we are away this weekend she asked for my key so he can come in and pick things up for us, after I take a day off work to declutter our flat. At that point I told her she was being completely unreasonable, that I would not have time to sort out what can be hauled away, there's no urgency and it was our house, we would live as we saw fit and she had no idea how busy we are. (She has never had a full-time job, and we had two live-in helpers until I was 20 who did all the housework - she has no idea what it's like to live and work 100 hour weeks like we do.)

She hung up on me and is now giving me the silent treatment - will not answer phone or texts. DH says I shouldn't let it bother me, but of course it does and I can't help it. DF and DB think I am being unreasonable and it's not worth fighting with her. DF just told me to take a deep breath and remember that she is only critical because she loves me and wants me to be the best, and she is as critical of him and DB too and they don't fight with her the way I do.

What makes it more difficult is she is effusively positive to EVERYONE else and apparently sings my praises to the rest of the family and her friends, so no one believes she is at all critical to me. For example, when I told her that I was pregnant, she had a very negative reaction ("so, you expect me to congratulate you I suppose"). I then received emails of congratulation from all her friends saying that the very happy and excited grandma to be had phoned. When I asked her about this she said that I was too needy and it was no achievement to get pregnant, and it would probably end my career.

What do I do? Cave in and cancel our weekend away (first day off work since Jan) to keep her happy? Text her to say I was being unreasonable? She was supposed to be coming to my 20 week scan tomorrow and I thought this was such a good sign that she is excited about her first grandchild. Now she won't even answer the phone.

I have so much to be happy about and yet she manages to introduce stress, anxiety and frustration into my life - I know I should just not let it get to me but I have no idea how. Perhaps she is right and I am just abnormally needy - but don't most women expect their DM to be excited about the first grandchild?

Also to those of you querying why we are storing their stuff - they moved abroad and we agreed to let them store things in our admittedly very commodious store-room under the eaves in our flat.

That's not really the issue: her comment about "all our crap" is directed at the untidy day-to-day debris of our lives - books lying around on tables, a pile of out of date lotions and potions in the bathroom, a pashmina and coat on the back of a dining room chair, 10 pairs of shoes piled next to the door, a drift of post/papers/broken phone/computer cable/odds and ends on the hall table. Minor life clutter that is no worse than the houses of any of our friends - yes, I'm sure no more than 10 minutes a day would keep it under control, but we are not the kind of people who notice or care - it genuinely does not bother us so instead we push everything into piles and have a blitz every couple of months.

Your DH sounds wise. I don't know what your mother's problem is, maybe it's not narcissism but it's certainly not normal. I bet when you have your own precious child you'll want to bolster his/her confidence, not hold the bar higher and higher so it can never be reached. I'm sure I've read that positive reinforcement is more effective than negative anyway.

Problem is Tyelperion is that it is your crap to do with as you see fit...it is not your mothers job to be organising things - she should be sorting her own crap and getting her mitts off yours!

I actually think the counselling will be if great help for allowing your to realise just how unbalanced and unequal your relationship with your mother is, they may even give you idea's of how to readdress the balance. Good luck. x

Wow you are right where I was with my mother a few years ago. I need to have a think about how I began to feel less criticised and controlled. I'll put my baby to bed and get back to you!

Tuppeny did having your baby help? Or did it make it worse? Many commenters here seem to feel that she will only push the boundaries more when a grandchild is on the scene...which is why I feel some urgency to address this now when I am only 20 weeks.

I think you are underestimating how bad she is.

She sounds utterly controlling and utterly horrible.

She is so unreasonable (thinking it is in any way acceptable to inform someone that you have decided that their house needs clearing out, and hiring a van?!) that I cannot see how having any sort of reasonable conversation will help things.

You're going to have a baby soon. You don't want this person to wreck that special time with constant criticism (I know she lives abroad - is she planning on being around when the baby is here though?). You also don't want this dynamic to go on into the early years of your child's life. Things are changing - take advantage of this to have a clean sweep.

It doesn't sound as if you have ever really confronted her firmly, apart from blowing up when things reach a pitch. Had you thought of a letter? Her recent behaviour with the house is a good catalyst for you. In a letter you could outline this and other examples of her unreasonable and controlling behaviour. She won't see them that way - but the aim is for you to say, no matter what YOU think, I don't like this - and I will no longer accept it from you. BACK OFF.

You could then make the point that so far, she has made your pregnancy miserable. Constant criticism, constant attempts to make you worry. Hideous behaviour that makes you begin to think that far from being a good grandmother she will be a negative, vicious, controlling one. Make it clear that you will not have this for your child. Tell her that your pregnancy has brought into sharp focus the fact that she never, never has a single positive thing to say to your face. Make her think about that. Tell her the truth - that she makes you miserable. How awful it is that she always, always has time to criticise, never time to praise. Quote back her awful words when she found out you were pregnant. Let her know that you have come to the end of your tether, that she is affecting your pregnancy, that you now want space from her.

She will not necessarily believe a word you say. She is unlikely to change. But something sufficiently strong to make her actually hold herself back even a little is needed. Sending such a letter would be for your benefit really, and for your child and your marriage. You can't live a good life with a person like this unchecked within it.

Easier to do this now than in four years' time when you are being dictated to about schools, discipline, etc. etc...

Hello again.
I tried for a long time to please my mother. She drains me still but I think I have learned to deal with her now. Having children has helped but when I had my first her behaviour was atrocious. She was and is generous with gifts and childcare but there is a price to pay. I have stopped looking for approval. I have stopped tying myself up in knots over her feelings. I have begun to put MY family first. That struck me most about your post / wanting to please your mum over your DH. He sounds great and that is going to help you. Don't take her to the scan. This is about your family now. It's a magical moment for you and your DH. DO NOT LET HER SPOIL IT. there is no need for guilt. Show her a pic afterwards if you must and if her heart doesn't melt (or worse she says something mean "oh I can't tell if that's upside down/oh it looks like your DH" or whatever ) then respond with something like "we are delighted that the baby is growing well" or something like that which will hopefully remind her that is the important point of a bloody scan.
I think the main thing is backing off and trying hard to just concentrate on you and yours. This for me started to happen the busier I got. Now I've got 3 kids I'm simply too busy to put up with my mum's shit. She plays up much less now. Although it has been v tough the last 3 years as we lost my dad to cancer so obviously she became the victim in widowhood. That may sound evil of me but I stand by my response.
Your mother def has narcissistic traits. I'm not willing to cut my mum out of my life and it sounds like you dont want to either so you have to set boundaries. I've had all that interfering stuff too with my mum bringing round curtains or whatever as we had just moved in & weren't decorating fast enough for her. Everything was implied criticism. EVERYTHING. it is very very hard to let go of her control but you can do it. Essentially I now have a relationship based on my kids. I won't allow her to overstep the mark eg in how I run my house/educate/feed/discipline my kids.
BACK OFF from your mum and see what happens next. DO NOT LET HER STAY when you have the baby!!!!
When I had my first my mum argued on my doorstep that I didn't make her feel welcome as I took a while to answer the door (learning to breastfeed & in pain at the time), when DS was fighting his naps at 13 months she said he only slept in the day out of boredom. Oh God I could go on.... Anyway my point is when you give birth you will feel tearful and vulnerable and she will not be a source of comfort to you. You, your lovely sounding DH and your baby are what matter now, not her approval. Let's face it what more could you do right?!
Good luck xx
Oh it's worth trying to think of her as a 6 year old!

She sounds like the women I work for. As I work in her house I see how she treats her adult children with money and unreasonable expectations (yes, weight and parenting are in there too) and how they can never please her. She has us employees running round after her but at least we get paid and go home at the end of the day. Sorry but your mum is toxic and somehow you have to turn these things into her problem, not your problem. My employer is 70+ and these things get worse with age, you know how they say as you get older your primary personailty is what comes out - not a good thought.
I have no realtionship with my own mum now due to a variety of reasons - while it sounds like a sad statement and this may not be the result you want, for me it has freed up my life. Good luck

I am amazed you are still speaking to her. Good luck with tackling her - she needs to know she cannot control you or yours. At 50, I still have to remind my mother that while I am technically "her child", I am her ADULT FULLY PAID UP MEMBER OF THE GROWN UP WORLD child. She fails to get that on many occasions desipite me having adult up children of my own!

Such a lot of great advice from posters here, I hope it helps you to look objectively at your own situation.

I am sure she won't improve with age, or with the birth of your baby. Mine used my children to make hurtful little comments at me. I used to think it went over their heads, but know I know that it didn't. My relationship with me mother is a distant one now, even though she only lives 5 minutes drive away.

As others have said, it is now about you and your family. She can enjoy you and yours, or she can continue to be the same, but that is not something you can control. You can only control how much access and control she has over you.

I also think you underestimate how horrible she is.

She behaves the opposite of how a nurturing parent should

Don't be fooled by her apparently singing your praises to everyone else and being excited about the baby. It's all about her own status and the attention it brings her.

She's not thinking "Isn't it wonderful that Tyel's pregnant!" She's thinking, "If I tell everyone the news then the focus will be on me." And it worked, didn't it? All of her friends calling you with congratulations on the pregnancy but also all mentioning your mother and her reaction. She's kept herself firmly in the spotlight.

And now, when your attention would otherwise be focussed on the scan and seeing the baby, your mother has again managed to manipulate things so that your focus and attention is on her.

Wow! I agree with everyone else that you are playing down how toxic she is! I admire your ability to come out the other side and cope! And I agree with coppertop above.

You write:
"DF just told me to take a deep breath and remember that she is only critical because she loves me and wants me to be the best, and she is as critical of him and DB too and they don't fight with her the way I do."

No! She is critical of you because she wants to control you. Because you are not giving it to her this time with cleaning up the flat, she is throwing a tantrum and trying to emotionally blackmail you into conceding control to her.

I don't have time to write anything else right now but I think your way out of this is to make it abundantly clear to her that nothing she does is going to affect/ control you anymore.

Tyelperion, what you were saying about achieving a Zen-like state made me think of something Quentin Crisp said about calm (though he was talking about how he quelled his own desire to always be chipping in): "I feigned calm long before I actually felt it; in time the feigning of calm produced calm."

I think your DH's idea of the cue to not react is a great start. It might seem mechanical, but I suppose it's a bit like making yourself go for exercise, until it becomes habitual.

I say all this as the world champion reactor/taker of the bait.:o

All of this reminds me..I must go out for a run.

Good luck with it all.

Just to say MY MOTHER ANNOYED THE SHIT OUT OF ME EARLIER.
thanks, I needed that

Thanks again everyone for your advice on this thread (and DH thanks you all for the compliments - he is indeed a keeper ). I certainly have a lot to think about and work to do before this baby arrives.

A quick update on what happened with the 20 week scan last week, if anyone's still interested. She was supposed to come but ended up missing it - although I texted her the time of the train I was getting, I got a call from my dad (in the USA ) about 10 minutes before the train left saying she had called him because didn't know when and where to meet me

Anyway she ended up not making it, but called me on the train and hectored me about various pregnancy related things. I'm sorry to say I couldn't help rising to it after about 20 minutes, at which point she said I was "so nasty to her" and thought I knew everything and should learn from her experiences, and it was my responsibility to put her mind at rest about things (she is very upset I am booked into a midwife led unit which requires a transfer to another hospital for an epidural or c-section).

I hung up on her, and sent her the following text: I'm sorry you think I was being nasty. All I was saying was, you can tell me about your experiences and I promise I will listen - but please then take a step back and let me decide (together with DH, midwife and GP) what I will take away from that, how I want to proceed, and please respect those decisions. That's all :-) tyel x ps I'm hoping you can tell me the full story of my and DB's births soon

(as she has refused to discuss anything to do with her own two births with me in the past, unless to draw upon them to criticise me in some way - eg. "it is totally irresponsible to go anywhere you can't have a c-section because that's how you were delivered" - news to me!)

Her response was: I am very uninvolved in your life. I have zero to do with it since you came to the UK. Not one thing have I had anything to do with. As for births ask your father, I don't remember anything

(There's so much about that text that is wrong, and illogical, that it hurts my head to even think about it too much.)

Following the scan I texted her a scan photo and news that it was all fine, and her only response was: great. looks like DH's aunt which I guess is as good a response from her as I will ever get, considering.

I have to see her this week and will try to keep it entirely on topics of current affairs while practicing my zen-like calm...

Do check out this website as you mother has so many traits of the engulfing mother and also of the bullying mother.

Tyel, I also had a critical mother, although less interfering than yours. My Mum used to make critical jabs at DD she's such a madam, isn't she? sort of comments, and I know I'm biased but DD is the easiest, most pleasant child you could imagine. I came down on it like a ton of bricks (and my brothers backed me up) and it stopped. However, it really started me questioning our relationship. I instinctively knew that the passionate, unconditional love I felt for DD was never felt for me by my Mum. Interestingly she had a very close and warm relationship with DS (he could do no wrong, but he's a real handful)

So be prepared for having a child to change not only your life, but how you view your relationship to your mother/father etc. And remember you and your husband/children come first - needy, attention seeking motherchild comes later.

You need to come on over to the other thread - Turquoise can u link? I don't know how to yet. Essentially we are discussing the same things.
I knew shed make some silly comment about the scan pic.

But your baby is doing fine. WITHOUT HER THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

And breathe....

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1258129-Suggestions-needed-for-dealing-with-narc-mother-please