Is it possible to make someone understand that they are the victim of abuse, or do they have to work it out for themself?

[lovelybertha]

My beautiful, generous, intelligent and brave sister has spent the last ten years being worn down by a controlling and emotionally abusive man.

It seems like everyone can see it, other than her.

She spends her life making excuses for his appalling behavior.

Over the years, her close friends have drifted away. I'm pretty sure he has convinced her that members of the family who have questioned his behavior are labeled as either interfering/controlling or 'mad'.

She hears: 'it's none of your business' 'you can't make me do anything' 'you're mad' 'you're thick' a lot, and she believes it.

He brings no money into the house (he's not working, but is 'out' all day - she doesn't know where). He takes no responsibility for any child care.

There is loads more to the story- this is the bare bones.

Occasionally, it'll come to a head - he'll do something truly awful and she'll vent to me or our mum. Then, within a few days, he will have got into her head again - given her some ridiculous excuse or convinced her that it was her fault. She'll then take back everything she has said and respond to our point of view using words that are, quite literally, out of his mouth.

Her ds has recently started calling her 'stupid woman' when she tells him off. He has just been 4.

Does anyone with experience of this type of situation have any advice please?

LovelyBertha - I sympathise wholeheartedly but I don't have any good advice I'm afraid apart from always being there, and always, quietly reassuring her that she has not done anything wrong and does not deserve this.

I feel awful because my sister protected me, I never got the full brunt of the crazy behaviour until she left home so I had some comparison of what normal is (a sibling that loves you and looks out for you) and not normal is (someone that says they love you that attacks you) and I know the difference. Whereas my sister has only had not normal and it is a lot more complicated to look out for her now we don't live together.

It is very difficult to watch and wait for the moment they are ready and realise what is happening.

I hope your sister does work it out. I'm really glad that I came across this thread as I have been feeling emotionally bullied by my husband as well. It's been happening for years and has left me so angry and full of rage about the fact that it still goes on, that I hardly recognise myself. It's also left me, conversely with no confidence and on antidepressants and in therapy. It's not good to let go unchecked, but so very hard to do something about and stop - I am still with my husband. It now is taken out on one of my 4 yr old twins too - he is shouted at, emotionally belittled, taunted by my husband if he crys too much and has even been roughly shoved one way or another by my husband. He says that I'm over-reacting and that he is just disciplining him - that I'm too soft on him. But it affects my son so much - and terrifies my other one, and me. I don't know what to do.

BN138 I would strongly recommend you have a look at the emotional abuse support thread click here

There are plenty of supportive people on this site who have a lot of knowledge (and in some cases bitter experience) of EA.

BN138. What is happening to you is an awful thing. You don't have to put up with it.

Chaz is right. The reason I posted here (after much lurking and angst about telling my sister's secrets to strangers) is that are people who have first hand experience of what you are going through.

He can be stopped.

I agree with Trestired- I wish someone had told me to look up the definition of emotional abuse-it might make her realise her relationship is beyond just 'rocky' or 'difficult'

I cant be sure that I am being completely honest now- but I THINK I would have liked for someone to reach out and TELL me I was being abused. Could you offer her a way out? could her and her son come and live with you? are you close enough to where she works and her son goes to school? or are your parents? - she may find it easier to admit to herself if there is a way out...that said though, I couldnt admit it for so long because I felt so ASHAMED and HUMILIATED that I had let myself get into that situation....

ramble, ramble...I am trying to say that you may be able to help her see her situation if you can offer her a way out BUT/AND give her some dignity about it (very very hard to do I think )

OOoooo...no one has mentioned Lundy Bancrofts book- give her that to read

BN138 Patricia Evans' books describe possible countering strategies to verbal abuse, if that is what you are looking for.

But if you and your children are being terrified by his behaviour towards them, they are too young to defend themselves. They need to be protected from aggression.

How are you describing these fears and issues in therapy? What do you want to do?

Yes, "Why does he do that?" should be mandatory reading. Maybe we can have a campaign to put one in every hotel room like the Gideon people .

Actually, what really should be mandatory is courses on respect (of self and others) at a very young age.

Thank you for your support. I've only really just started my therapy, and am just finding ways in which to communicate this. it is difficult to explain. I have now been on to the recommended thread - which is enormously supportive.

Right now, I want to get him in to therapy some how to come to terms with this anger he has, and try and work through it. Last year it got so bad that all I could think about was divorce. But I don't think I'm there right now any more. Truth is I just don't know - I just feel weak and exhausted!

I shall look in to the Patricia Evans book though - thank you for that recommendation. And for the support.

Hmmm well your dsis dh sounds like my ea ex he also said I was mad and need help so at on point I 'caved' as I saw it the time and went to the docs and got some counselling and do you what It was the best thing I could have done as the counsellor pointed out what was happening in a gentle way so that I could come to my own conclusions.
So his plan to get the professionals to confirm how mad I was completely backfired!
Try suggesting that maybe he could be right and you could do with some counselling...
Otherwise keep telling her that you are there for her and help to discipline the ds.
My ex was also better if someone was staying with us, so could you go and stay with them for some tenuous reason and just be a witness.

oh god op

i am currently having to sit and watch pretty much the exact same thing happen to my best friend.

theres no telling her. me and her other friends have tried, but she won't help herself, she makes excuses for him all the time, its as if he has brainwashed her into accepting his behaviour as normal :(

we have now accepted that all we can do for her is carry on being her friend, and be there when she inevitably, eventually needs us.

BN138, if you have been lurking for a while, you may also have seen the Lundy Bancroft book talked about. Why Does He Do That? it will really help you see that you have nothing to feel ashamed or humiliated about.

Seriously.

Have a look at both of them, they are very helpful.

((hugs)) - glad you found our support thread, make as much use of it as you possibly can!

Yes, it is brainwashing. And I tend to think that it is a good idea to counteract the brainwashing by making small comments that sow a seed of doubt. I 'came to' when ex told me he didn't love me when he married me, that he felt sorry for me and didn't know how to get out of it. I'd have to say though that by that stage I was a pathetic shadow of my former self. I had probably started to 'thaw' about 2 years before ie things had started to not make quite as much sense, I had started to question things internally. No-one ever said anything to me about him, everyone was besotted by him (still are tbh). In short, I got there moreorless on my own iyswim but I wish I hadn't, particularly when the brainwashing was losing its hold and I had started to question it. When I am talking to someone who is being abused, I use phrases like 'oh, that's worrying' - basically, I keep it short unless I know they are genuinely reaching out. Abusive relationships are usually high drama and if everyone around also gets dramatic and emotional, the abused person kind of ignores it - if you are calm it has a tendency to be more effective. My sister is in an abusive marriage and has been for donkey's years. She has batted away things I have said (still thinks eg that my ex is the best thing since sliced break) and tbh these days I keep back - she is exhausting with her constant denial and I am tired of it. Abusive relationship are addictive (the abused are often addicted to the abuser, to the relationship) and as with any addiction, the addict has to 'bottom out' and nothing and no-one can do anything until they do. I am astonished how much people have to go through before they 'bottom out' (if they ever do ) - my sister was recently talking quite seriously about divorce, considering what to do about how he has totally sewn her up financially, and I made some generally non-commital noises - not supportive, not unsupportive. I know that sounds cold - i pointed her in the direction of WA and also mentioned the Freedom Programme - but I am simply tired of it and not all that sure she is serious - you get bored of it in the end. Until the abused wakes up, there is an element of the abuse that they really enjoy, as mad as that sounds. They can also lead you a merry dance which wears you out, while they're still getting a huge kick out of their relationship. Think 'addict' I'm afraid.

Basically, when they're up to their neck in the brainwashing and abuse, they think they are special, in a very special bubble with their abuser, which no-one else is in. They get a kick out of that.

I sound so cynical don't I. I guess I am. I think you have to gauge where in the cycle the abused is - if they're still head over heels in love with the intoxicating drama of it, you're on to a loser to try to interfere.