Need some advice

[Garr]

Well, first let me start by saying I'm a man but I really need some help, I need to know if my relationship is worth saving, and I want to get an impartial woman's point of view

First I'm 39, my wife is 41, we have been married for 10 years, and together for 13, we have 1 child together who is 10, and she has 1 child from a previous who is 13. I have 2 children from a previous 15 and 17.

I own my own company and she works part time, approximately 12 hours per week, we are relatively well off and day to day finances are not an issue. I love my wife dearly and would do anything for her, she has complete freedom generally to do as she pleases, she frequently goes on holiday with the girls, goes out clubbing about once a month or every two months, and I have freedom to do the same, if I chose too.

So far so good...

My wife is very attractive, blonde and everywhere we go is noticed... shall we say regardless if I am present or not. She has become more and more distant over the last three years, and by that I mean few phone calls, texts, hugs, kisses etc... I'm positive she is faithful, but I feel somewhat emotionally neglected. She is not very considerate of my feelings, and has had a less than average libido for the last 10 years, mine is the same as it was when I was younger. So with minimal emotional and physical contact I feel sad, most of the time.

We have talked extensively and I have decided to seek marriage guidance, but she will not attend so I go alone, I need to communicate how I feel to see if I'm over analysing the situation. My wife say's that this is what happens with long term relationships and it's to be expected.

There are so many instances of inconsiderate behaviour and I cannot possibly list them...

My question is am I being a wet blanket, should I man up and take it on the chin or are my concerns justified ?

She obviously has some issues with me, such as too needy, which leads to lol... being mardy ... god it actually sounds a bit pathetic now I've written it down but I'm going to send it any way.

Please be critical

Thx

OK, so what happens if you DID display jealousy????

I'm perplexed, but any relationship where one partner feels that they have to fundamentally change themselves to be acceptable to the other, that in spite of all the other evidence to the contrary describes themselves as only average, seemingly loving, seemingly attentive, but not overly so, what the hell are you supposed to be doing that is wrong????

I don't think this situation is as complex as you give it credit for, I think she is emotionally detached, is at the very least checking out of the relationship, and seems to be treating you with zero respect.

Until you tell me that she flies into a rage if you DO challenge her, I would say it's just a dysfunctional relationship, one she is totally under invested in emotionally and going through the motions for the perks.

IF however she reacts irrationally to your questioning, natural jealousy then I would have my hackles on the back of my neck rising. I know I lived in a highly abusive, controlling relationship, but it is NOT normal to pitch up at home with a couple of blokes in the wee hours. It really isn't.

garr- i recently did some reaearch as part of my work on mums' sex lives. it wasn't scientific but it was online so anonymous ( and no, it wasn't a thread here!)

Most women with young kids had sex once a month- around 35%. the rest were having sex once every 2 weeks or less.

Does that make you feel better or worse?

Their "reasons" were they were too tired.

I don't think this applies to your wife though, as your child is older . I would like to know what you meant by her major "issues" after the birth of your child- physical or what?

it would be crass to make an assumption on what you write (I once talked to a couple separately and could not believe it was the same marriage- the difference in their stories.) BUT it does appear as if she doesn't love you any more.

it's also possible that your reasonableness and tolerance is making her respect you less.

being cynical I'd say she is taking you for an expensive ride.

Enjoying the fruits of your hard work but contributing nothing emotionally to your marriage.

She could feel so secure in this relationship that she is essentially sticking 2 fingers up at you.

Going back to your 1st post, yes, you need to man-up.

tell her she needs to talk about what she is feeling.

If she won't then you maybe need to think what you want next- which could mean cutting your losses. Not saying this is the case but people often hang on in in 2nd marriages longer, because they don't want to fail again.

If you love her why do you leave her to do 95% of the shitwork? Why do you phone her when she is out why you know she doesn't like it? Checking up on her? Why are you talking in terms of "restraints"? Why do you talk as though you are doing her a favour in allowing her to work outside the home? You do come across as pretty misogynistic to me.

In terms of your relationship, it's not clear to me whether your wife is just not that into you anymore or whether she is just not behaving as you feel a wife "should".

I guess my advice would be to try to address the inequalities in your relationship first and foremost (you can easily make a start by doing more housework and childcare) and go from there. I'd also back off on the phoning/texting. Let her phone you if she wants to.

Well, I know a certain type of woman who wouldn't necessarily be physically unfaithful, but tends to attract men/admirers due to a combination of personality and looks, and sees nothing wrong with flirtatious/encouraging behaviour all in the name of meeting people and having fun. Maybe your wife is just like that.

That said, I'd be interested to know what good things there are about you and your wife's relationship, beyond just your general lifestyle together, the kids and the fact that you love her. Do you do stuff just the two of you? Do you laugh together? Some form of regular quality time?

Also, the cynical part of me thought immediately upon reading this...

The way I see it because she gets what she needs from our marriage my wife is happy ergo no problem therefore no need to talk to someone about a problem that doesn't exist

...that she doesn't want to go to marriage counselling not because she is happy, but because she is afraid of what she may be forced to admit. Whether it's that she's playing around, or just that her behaviour is unreasonable. She may very well know on some level that she's getting away with too much, but prefer to bury her head in some very, very deep sand,

Herhissyness, if I displayed jealousy which I obviously have done then the consequences are pretty dire. I am the sort of person that ends up saying sorry even though the confrontation didn't start with me.

Jealousy is horrible, emotionally draining and very destructive, I try to avoid at all costs.

Strawberry, I have researched the sex lives of men and women extensively and do understand that my libido is much higher than her's. I am aware that the norm at our age and at this stage in our relationship is normally once every two - three weeks. The thing is W will always oblige and always appear to enjoy it once started, but it's very draining basically begging for sex, I want her to kiss me for no reason, pat my bottom, anything really to make me feel wanted.

I have had plenty of opportunity to, lets say play away but I'm really, really not interested in this.

The major issues were of a Gynaecological nature, lots of doctors, probing, ops etc etc ...

Love is a strange thing, she say's I Love You, verbally and in texts, but saying it is not the same as showing it.

I love her that much the other day I went to see my doctor to ask if there was something that she could do to reduce my libido, and to help me change my emotional state. Thus the counselling.

We have discussed divorce before, and I think if I stopped trying she would probably go through with it, finding someone else would not be a problem for her, not in the short run anyway, whether a new relationship would last would depend on the man in question I guess.

I speak to my friends and they look bemused at me, feelings, emotional what are you saying ?? They don't understand, they simply cannot relate to my dilemma. Of course if I told them that I wasn't getting enough sex then they would easily be able to relate, the answer would generally be - plenty more fish in the sea !

I have been married before, and yes I do not want to fail, my second marriage, the first was very difficult, and I can relate to some of the people on here when they say - they held down a full time job, did all the house work, gardening, bills, kids...etc etc that was me in my first marriage.

Do we simply ask for too much, we are I would say about 65% compatible am I striving to high, should we all look for that 100% or is it impossible ?

...sorry, posted before I had finished. Also wanted to say that another reason for avoiding marriage counselling could be that she knows the relationship is essentially not working (in so far as clearly you want very different things from each other) but due to the lifestyle she is afforded, just wants to continue and ignore the problem.

I think often the more one person feels neglected and reacts by "clinging" behaviour, the more the other tries to distance themselves further. It will probably just continue to get worse unless something forces a change.

if I displayed jealousy which I obviously have done then the consequences are pretty dire

What does this mean? Dire in what way(s)? How long do these consequences last, and what happens after you've said sorry?

Lizzabadger, well maybe your right, maybe I should do more in the house, I was honest when I said that the majority of the house work is done by W.

My W, does not have any of the other worries, I provide the ability of complete freedom, I'm loving, caring, attentive. Isn't a relationship about the sharing of burdens ?

I'm more than willing to share every task, job, finance straight done the line or even past the line, I have even offered to employ help if she needs / wants it.

You miss understand me I don't allow her to have a part time job, I do not own my W, she is her own person.

Thanks for your feedback I appreciate honesty.

I came on here to try and get the opposite view point, thx :)

Riverboat :

I think often the more one person feels neglected and reacts by "clinging" behaviour, the more the other tries to distance themselves further. It will probably just continue to get worse unless something forces a change.

I like this it seems logical, the push and pull effect, maybe if I distance myself a little it will readdress the balance ?

What do you think ?

garlic, by dire I mean, throwing her rings at me, the mention of divorce, after I have said sorry a few days later we would fall back to the normal run of things.

The thing is early on in our relationship she was obscenely jealous, I mean nuts.

I'm not perfect, and I can't expect perfect, the way we are now would be fine if only I felt wanted.

garr
it's also possible that your reasonableness and tolerance is making her respect you less.

I said the same thing...as river

I feel for you, Garr.

When I read your reply to Strawberry, I did pick up on the housework thing (it's a bloody big feature in most women's lives!) The normal rule of thumb, however, is that both partners should have equal time off - and it looks as though this is occurring. Yes, you could get a cleaner and/or spend more 'parent' time with DC: homework, bath, bed, taxi service, etc. Perhaps you should do both, just so you can feel sure you really are doing everything possible.

I really must stress that trying to alter your personality - eg becoming more detached, uncaring, etc - for the sake of a relationship is a very bad idea. I don't even think it would work, but let's say it did ... your wife would then be happily married to a man who isn't you, iyswim?

Your friends sound like dickheads! Very glad you're seeing a counsellor, that way you'll be able to discuss it all reasonably. Good luck with things.

Thanks strawberry, garlic and all of you whom have posted. :)

I will try combinations of things and see what has the best effect.

When I said I only do 5% of the housework that's because by the time I get home everything is done. At weekends we do it together, I have picked up on the fact that sharing the house hold duties is a big thing and will do more.

I've read a lot of posts this weekend and I have learnt things that from a woman's point of view are essential in a healthy relationship. I can but try we are all evolving I guess, the bottom line though I won't give up until everything has failed.

Like I said previously I'm home alone at the moment as the W is on holiday with her friends, I have washing, ironing and kids to put to bed now, so thanks for everything... I'm sure we will speak again :)

Good luck. Hope things work out.

Garr- I hope you are still reading. I have my own thread on Good Housekeeping as I am sick of my DHs' attitiude to housework. His argument is like yours- he does a hard day at work. I though work almost full time- albeit from home.This causes huge resentment on my part.

One thing:

there's a saying which you might know:

if you keep behaving inthe same way, you'll get the same results.

Why not stop the daily phone calls? the "I love you", the trying to please?

Start being detached yourself.

Start showing that you really don't care quite so much.

You will get a reaction. Either she will come closer- or the gap will widen.

In either case, it's progress.

What you have now is stalemate.

You can't force anyone to change their behaviour.
You can change your own- and theri behaviour will, in some way, change too.

try it.

I will Strawberry, good advice, thanks I will look up your thread now !!

Totally agree with the poster who said your tolerance is having the reverse effect of what you're going for. I am sorry to say but she doesn't have any respect for you. Nada. You need to pull back, stop being so eager to please, start going out with your friends and be less like an adoring little puppy (sorry). If that makes no difference then I really think you need to consider moving on. You sound like an amazing husband, and you're still young enough to start over with a woman who will appreciate you, and to be blunt, not take the piss out of you, because unfortunately, that is exactly what your wife is doing.

Good luck and keep posting.

My wife is very attractive, blonde and everywhere we go is noticed

Sorry but why is this something you felt you needed to mention?

I wouldn't describe my dh as very attractive, blond etc etc ... unless it was particularly relevant to the conversation. That description you gave stood out like a flashing neon light. Does she feel like a trophy wife, that you value her for her looks above everything perhaps? Just a thought...

curtain not up to me to read the OP's mind but having "talked" to him in several posts here, I think the reason he mentions it is because his wife gets lots of attention from men- which she enjoys.

if she looked like the back end of a bus, the problem might not exist in its current form.

She might still treat him badly, but it would presumably be without the men who drool over her- which is a massive ego boost for her, but makes him feel insecure as she is obviously sought after by other guys.

Nothing wrong at all in mentioning her assets.

To me, it sounds like it could be a few things:

Reliving a lost younger life - she has spend the last 13 years child rearing and time before that in marriage when a lot of us were still out carving careers and living single lives in our late 20's. Is she just trying to recapture that now that the kids are a little older and she feels she has the opportunity.

It looks like you both went straight from one family life to another, so all you have between you is family life, child rearing and your business. When do you go out and have fun and drinks together? I think she compartmentalises you as the family not the fun. Getting pissed of with your contact, texts etc sounds very father-daughter doesn't it.

She just doesn't want sex - it happens. If i can be blunt, you sound like a very nice male childminder, and i don't want sex with my very nice male childminder, it's an asexual relationship. Has your relationship turned into this? What did she find attractive about you? Has that changed in anyway? Be brutally honest with yourself.

She may want something different out of a relationship now. She might have wanted caring, secure great dad proven skills to transfer her family to, but now she seems to be looking for wider relationships. Can you move in this direction too? Ever though of packing the kids to the gp's and biuggering of to Vegas for a long weekend?

When there has been a lack of sex in my relationship, it's not always something deep seated in the relationship with my partner, it can be me, not feeling attractive, not feeling that i deserve sex. If she has been stunningly good looking all her life, hitting 41 may make her more vunerable even if she is not looks obsessed it is still hard to come to terms with aging.

You sound like a great guy, but, and i hate saying this i feel awful, not very attractive in the way you come across, just rather needy...? So sorry, you could be a completely different chap in the boardroom, and i don't want to sever your feelings but am trying to be honest. You don't sound very sexy.

I do hope your counselling will help. However where is your life? What do you do with your mates and what are your hobbies?

bin if you don't mind me pointing out, your attiudes could be seen as a bit ageist.

The op's wife is 40 ish- that is not old and most women who take care of themselves look good at 40.

I suspect that he has tried the dine, wine and flowers- and she is not interested.

And the general consensus here seems to be that he is being too nice- and treated as a bit of a doormate- so offering her weekends away etc may simply make her more emotionally distant.

I think the key point to all of this is that she won't talk about it.

This either means she knows she has issues and wants to take a head in the sand approach to them or she knows that she simply doesn't want him any more - for all kinds of reasons- and again, won't face up to this as it would mean losing the nice lifestyle his company money affords her.

Whichever- she needs a metaphorical kick up the arse to make her wake up to his unhapppiness, and then she has to be honest.

Ha ha ageist, sorry if that's how i come across i am 41!

I had friends in uni that were breathtaking! I fitted into the more "ordinary" camp.

All through their 20'sand 30's even unawares their looks played a huge part in their lives, opportunities, personalities.

As we have moved into our 40's one of my friends in particular is having the hardest time with grey hair, foreheard wrinkles and things that the majority of us were expecting and have taken for granted and sort of laugh about. It's only since hitting her 40's that she feels she doesn't have the elixir of youth, skin doesn't snap back after an unforgiving late night, dark spots appearing etc. Tbh we don't even notice these things about her, but she recently seemed absolutely focussed on them, depressed about it and it's strange to see her confidence affected in this way.

I think the ops wife is just trying to carve out a different life for herself in all honesty.

Sorry but having read all of your posts I think you sound like a totally insecure man who needs to boost his self esteem. "Begging for sex" to me is the absolute best way that you can guarantee for that sex NOT to happen.
I think you need to try to build you self esteem by finding ways to make YOURSELF happy, not relying on your wife to fulfil your happiness.
You need to find happiness within yourself.
You are clearly not at peace with yourself.
I think your messages sound really needy and you need to find a way to strike a balance between loving your wife and smothering her.
Sorry maybe it comes across as harsh but you have painted yourself as being such a wonderful person, but I think you area bit of a martyr and you are looking for sympathy.

Her libido might be low with you..

It sounds like she is treating you like a cash machine.

Onlyme- I think that's very harsh.
You might have read all the posts- but did you actually listen?

What I see is a man in his 2nd marriage , who - yes- is fed up- but whose wife is behaving as if she were single.

I doubt if he means "beg for sex" literally.

I read it as persuade, or make all the first moves- not an on knees job!

Of course he wants sympathy- wouldn't you if your parter was going out with other women?

He's a family-man who wants his wife to behave as if she loves him and wants to be with him- putting more energy into hobbies and friends is hardly going to amend that- is it?