ExDP living with me temporarily, weird limbo

[Orbinator]

Hi everyone,
I've recently name changed after another thread got sent to my DP and a troll was outed...so I'm very cautious to let too much slip. Really need advice though as the more I think about it the less convinced I am at any one right course of action...

Ex and I met on a donor website. He initially just wanted yearly pics and possibly to be an uncle figure in the long run, when the child was older. Child would always know who he was but not call him daddy, as he would not be filling that role.

However, after a couple of tries at conceiving (yes, it was an unregulated site and I AM kicking myself for not going to a proper clinic purely for the confusion that ensued, not my DD, obviously!) we decided to have a relationship. I thought he was the perfect guy tbh and we had about 6 months of fun where he came to mine every weekend and met my friends, stayed for 2 weeks at Xmas and met my dad. He said he loved me and wanted to have a family with me. We talked about moving abroad when DD was born and I was considering selling my assets to do this.

He then decided (whilst I was pg) that he "can't see a future for us" and breaks it off. At the time I got very emotional and although I tried to stay calm initially it was massively confusing for me psychologically. I had been preparing to be a single mum through choice prior to our relationship and felt very strongly about it. I knew I could do it and was happy with that decision. All of my friends supported me. Then I stupidly changed the rules. I know I have no one else to blame for this and I honestly don't know how I let myself get so involved. I can only say that I thought it would eventually be a loving relationship and our DD would benefit. When you are happy it can be hard to see the woods for the trees. But I do feel like an idiot with hindsight...

Anyway. After months of me not knowing what he really wants (he kept changing his mind about why he left - one min it was me then it was the pg) I thought I should just go back to being a single mum and he should go back to being donor. At the time he hinted it was what he wanted. Then once I vocalised it he changed his mind and his family (who he told AFTER he left?!?) thought I was being v. unreasonable. This went on for about 2 months, to-ing and fro-ing. It's hard because he doesn't want to pay regular maintenance, can't decide how often he wants to see her and still seems to want to be the distant uncle. Half of me wants to block him and his family out but the other half wonders if he will actually be a good dad when she is here.

To top it off he's had surgery which means he is pretty much housebound. He's also getting a new job (based in UK but with lots of travel and possible relocation to spain) and neither his old or new job know about me being pg, so he has no paternity leave. He's given up his old flat and bought all of his belongings here to my house. Is now staying in the attic (gave up on sexual relations as far too confusing and thanks to another helpful thread where I saw he was being overly manipulative - thank you to anyone who helped on that one!). I've since again addressed our "relationship" situ and he's said that since the break up he's seen that we are two different people and doesn't think it will work" which is fair enough. It hurt a bit but really it answered my Q. However, since then he keeps hugging me, kissing my hair, asking me if I want to lie on him, apologising for not being able to hold hands (crutches), offering massages and last night took my hand over the table and held it, saying I had done "really well through this pg, as the only thing that had phased me was when he left". He also keeps complimenting me and saying I look beautiful and gorgeous (comparing me to other women at antenatal classes, etc).

I'm just so confused and it is actually making me want to punch him. There are so many things I want to resolve while he is here but anything I say about maintenance seems to push him away, ditto with contact.

I want him to be responsible for his daughter if he wants contact, which I don't think is too much to ask. All I have suggested is that he pays £200 pm and he can see her every weekend if he likes. He has a fear of CSA, which I have no real interest in perusing. However his family don't seem to think he should have to pay, or his friends, because we met on a donor website. I'm not going mental am I? It ISN'T a donor situation, and hasn't been since we decided to have a relationship. If I really wanted to be a money grabbing ho-bag i'd be all over CSA like a rash, but I really just want him to be an adult.

Help!
And SO SO SO sorry for the epic post. There are so many issues it's all getting jumbled in my head :(

If he wanted to be a donor he should have gone to a proper place where he would have remained unknown to the recipient.

You did have a relationship and I think you should go through the CSA. It is none of the business of any of his friends or family. I would not trust him to carry on paying you until your child reaches 16 or 18 he will change his decision/opinion plenty of times and cause you stress each time.

I see you decided from the previous threads to let him stay with you despite all the advice you were given on there. You do not have a relationship now. He is using you and he is messing with your head.

If he wanted to be with you he would be with you. All the excuses reasons he gives you are crap. He doesn't want to be with you but he wants you hanging around waiting for him to sooth his ego.

Is he paying anything towards his up keep while he lives with you?

Yes, I agree. He's definitely getting a good deal. He is paying for food and has jokingly said that his card is mine to use and he wants me to "make out like a bandit" while he is here. I'm not really like that though so I think he know's it's a safe bet I'd be sensible with his money.

Thanks for re-posting, you obviously saw the other thread and I did take a lot on board from that. I feel this is our last chance to resolve some of the issues before she is born. I also don't want to fuel the fire by telling him he can't stay and thus seemingly prove his family/friends right - they'd see that as me chucking him out. I try not to let what they think affect me, but if he has input in our child's life then they would be visiting, etc, so I have to consider their opinions.

I have to say I need something regular and firm, but have heard nothing but bad things about the CSA and the troubles they cause. If I do that I also need to put him on the BC...

this has a really simple answer.

You say to him "Commit or fuck off out of my house and do not come back".

As you met and became pregnant via a donor website, I don't think you have the moral right to pursue for contact and maintenance.

You don't need to put him on the BC for him to have to pay, he could say he isn't the father and you will have to get a paternity test done.

He cannot have his cake and eat it, if he wants access he has to pay, if he is going to walk away and never see the child ever then you could do without the maintenance.

However, can you afford it?

I read your other thread too.

He now wants contact - his parents want to fly over and meet her, etc. As far as I'm concerned if he wants that he needs to commit somehow.

Xhale - re the relationship thing, when I asked the question directly, he said that he had been thinking recently we could make it work and it would be really good - before the whole thing happened on the last thread. He said that was an example of why he didn't think we were suited as I was on a forum which is public and he is a very private person...

Hi Fabby - yes thanks for your advice too.

For an update on the troll; she texted him saying it wasn't her fault and understood if I wasn't allowing him to text her but if he could let her know he was well after the op a simple "fine" would do - he showed me the text and confirmed he wants nothing more to do with her after reading all of the crazy threads. She now denies ever being on MN (texted me at 1am last week to tell me so, none the less!?) which is odd because she has started a few threads about various things we know are personal to her, as well as getting my ex a solicitor.... anyway she is now thankfully out of the picture and been shown up as the nutter I had been telling him she was for months. I think he's realised how much she was poisoning him against me, highlighting the negative and creating his fear that I am out to milk him.

The donor site was unregulated, in the eyes of the law he is the father. However, it wasn't my original plan to have him involved, that situation has changed. Now I know he wants involvement it's harder because people like Colditz (i.e his friends and family) think it's a great excuse for him to get the benefits of a kid but not the commitment.

Sorry Fabby - didn't answer your Q on £. Have a few friends over for a roast in an hour and Bung-Leg keeps hopping in and out...

I've got my own house (no mortgage) and some savings as well as rent coming in from another property that I own outright. I have enough to live on but see savings as savings and was saving them for her education and activities/holidays for her as she gets older. I'm trying to be sensible and the amount I ask from him is minimal compared to what I'd get through CSA. It's really a token gesture from him that won't financially cripple him for the future or ruin any plans he has to get his own place. I don't want to do that to him, obviously.

So he basically didn't say anything to you that the pair of you could try again but when this came up that you had been on the internet for advise he used that as a big shitty stick to beat you with and say it's all your fault and we can't be a couple.

This place is pretty anonymous apart from the nutters on the last thread.

He has no intention of being in a relationship with you and is making it out to be all your fault rather than be honest.

Sorry, I'm confused - he's your ex, right? so WHY is he living in your home? Whose idea exactly was that? Why don't you just tell him to fuck off and pursue any negotiations re: contact in writing, preferable via a third/official party?
There is no 'relationship' to discuss here, he's just freeloading (including affection and touching) like the tit he is. And I'm not surprised you want to punch him.

Kindly do not misinterpret my advice.

I advised you to say "Commit or fuck off"

And by that, I meant that he should commit, and pay the maintenance, and see the child, or he should fuck off and forget he has a daughter, and never darken your doorstep again.

Hey guys - thanks for posting. Been a long day here!
Sorry Colditz - re-read your post and got it. Just used to that kind of thing from his side and took it the wrong way.

I think I was hoping for a lot more from these 3 weeks than have transpired...not surprising I'm sure you'll shout, but I had to try. I'm being almost overly amicable about the whole thing, mainly because i'm worried he'll say to our DD in the future that I was the reason he doesn't see her somehow. Mind you, i'm sure he could come up with something regardless really.

Been making it clear that he needs to be looking for a flat in the next week and this is not a place he can expect to stay in much longer. He is giving the odd bit towards bills etc, and as I said the food costs.

My friend summed it up perfectly the other day when she said "Does he know that you dumped people for A LOT less than he's done to you? Why would he think you wanted to keep him around after all this crap?".

Don't know if anyone is interested, but I had a firm talk with him this afternoon. Given a final ultimatum that he decides whether he remains as donor (as he seems so keen to keep telling everyone that is all he is) and doesn't see her or he pays £200pm and gets access, as well as his family, every weekend if he so wishes.

Not surprisingly he again said that I keep changing my mind - even though there are emails since he left from me asking for him to make a choice between contact or no contact. What I think he means is that I have now become less flexible. He's also now blaming his new job (who he obviously hasn't told, just like the old work who incidentally still don't know he's leaving) for not making a decision as he doesn't know where he'll be living. I pointed out that I have been as flexible as has been possible - letting him stay when he chose to have this operation and leave his job at the same time, knowing full well I am giving birth this month. It doesn't seem to register that I have bent over backwards. He's not given me the £400 rent plus food bills he promised per month. Although he did offer to pay for the birthing pool hire which I was happy to go halves with (£270 for 5 weeks) and then give me £140 rent on top for next month . So yes, you were all right on that, and it doesn't bode well for any "flexible" maintenance agreements.

Anyway I've said he has another week to find somewhere to go but then I want him out of my hair. He's still welcome to come to the birth but he's had a huff about that and how hard it will be for him to get here if he's having to stay elsewhere. He's already played the whole "see, this is exactly what my family said you would do/were expecting" so I just said that I was quite proud of myself for doing it as he was trying to hold me over a barrel and I won't live like that.

And breathe....

Is this the bloke who was having the operation and determined to stay with you? You let him stay, despite the fact that he's fucking you around and seeing someone else? Some people really do contribute to their own unhappiness.

I did let him stay. I've been hoping to pull something out of the wreckage. I may have done it differently to most, but there wouldn't be an MN if we all did everything the same now, would there?

Never did find out for sure if he was seeing/is seeing someone else though. Not sure I care enough anymore to find out tbh. I do know that I can't trust him though and that seems to be the only constant. If nothing else the last few weeks have served to reinforce that, which I am glad for, as it shows me I'm certainly not over reacting or being paranoid, etc etc, as he says.

Hopefully in the long run this will put a stop to any "unhappiness".

Oh for fuck's sake Orbinator, why are you doing this to yourself? I remember your last thread, you were comprehensively warned that it would turn out the way it now has.

STOP asking him to make a choice, he has already made it and the choice is to mess you around to the absolute maximum. Ask yourself, why would he be on this unregulated donor website? To give himself access to women at a point when they will be vulnerable to his manipulating, perchance? Christ only knows he's had his money's worth out of you, months of endless toying with your emotions, with the prospect of YEARS more to come. Oh, joy!!

Kick him out (he can afford a hotel room I'm sure), DON'T put his name on the birth certificate, don't have any connection to him AT ALL; no maintenance; no contact. (I really thought I'd never say that, ever.)

"I'm just so confused and it is actually making me want to punch him." Best idea you've had in a long time.

"he said that he had been thinking recently we could make it work and it would be really good " With this as your foundation, your joint history? That is delusion above and beyond the call of duty.

"I've been hoping to pull something out of the wreckage." All you'll get is smaller pieces of wreckage.

Sorry to be so harsh, but I really feel you need to have some sense slapped into you (metaphorically speaking).

Yes, WhereYouLeftIt I have often wondered why he was on an unregulated site (of course he says for altruistic purposes) and he has even tried to make arrangements to donate to a lesbian couple while he is staying here. Of course when I mentioned this last night he said "so you want me not to donate to them? I'll happily tell them to f* off!" and once again I had to say no, because then it would be my fault that he doesn't do his "good deed".

I know i've been slow to wake up to this. I've had niggles, giant gnawings and huge epiphanies throughout, but I've never been in a situation like this before and have been trying not to rush decisions and give him the benefit of the doubt (even against my better judgement) in case I have read everything wrong and am actually being unreasonable. My ultimate concern is for my child and I don't want anything thrown back at me about how I could have done more for her to have a father figure. Yes, I realise that there are far better father figures out there, but if the biological dad says he wants involvement then surely I am right to try to make that work?

No, Orbinator, this is a case where it would be a really bad idea to involve this man in your child's upbringing.
THis man hates women. He is selfish and manipulative and he gets off on mucking women about. What do you think that's going to do to a little girl, having a father who is all over her one minute then rejecting her the next?

I cannot imagine a worst father for this child. He would completely mess up her idea of normal relationships and god only knows what kind of losers she'd end up setting her sights on. DO NOT DO THIS TO HER. You have been told again and again that having him around is the unreasonable option, but you CHOOSE to expose yourself to him again and again.

"My ultimate concern is for my child and I don't want anything thrown back at me about how I could have done more for her to have a father figure."
So instead you ensure that what will be thrown back at you is that you didn't prevent her from being mindfucked? Great plan.

You know, you have such a screwed up idea of 'father figure' - is there an issue in your own past? Because I am at a loss to explain your masochistic behaviour to myself.

I completely agree. Last night he said that he still can't guarantee how often he can see her. I guess I had hoped him staying would want him to actually be part of her life, but she still takes a back seat to his work. He's just a career monkey and I can see now that won't change. She won't want him flitting in and out and, as I said to him last night, I certainly don't want her feeling that she is his dirty little secret, which is how we've been portrayed to date. I do get it, honestly. I have been told off by friends for trying to find the good in people too often and I think the pregnancy aspect has been clouding my vision and I've let him get away with too much and allowed myself to be hurt and confused over again. If his family want to believe I am evil for not allowing them or their son contact then they clearly don't know him very well. They certainly have made no effort to ask for my point of view or get both sides of the story.
No real daddy issues here. Mine's still around but a little useless, I have to stand up for myself

No Orbinator, sadly you do not 'get' it.

So do it. CHuck this loser out and tell him that you do not want any contact with him ever again, that he can find someone else to leech off.