Different priorities when it comes to children

[Kat1111]

I really want children. I'm 26, and have been broody for the last 10 years at least.

I've been with my dp for nearly 3 years, and we're talking about starting a family in 2/3 years' time. That sounds a long way off, I know...

My problem is, he's obsessed with money and security. He wants to own a house and have a mortgage, which I appreciate, but I don't think it's the most important factor. We both have well paying, secure jobs (he's a doctor, I'm a teacher... ok, his job is better paid!) so even if we spawned one now, at 26ish, we wouldn't be financially screwed.

His parents saved and saved before they had children (10 years!!) and so he seems to feel the same way. The difference is, we have a combined income of £80k, where as their is £30k or so.

I get he wants to provide and all that, but I can't help but feel that the most important thing for a child is love and security, not money.

Thoughts?

We had this. We married when I was 24 and he 27, we already owned a house but I wanted to go back to university and retrain at some point, and he disliked his (very well paid) job, because it unavoidably involved a lot of travel. I thought we'd just make it work, he wanted everything to be in place. And he wanted to be a bit older generally, I think - the logistics was partly just him justifying the wait, when what he meant was, he wasn't ready yet.

He also has major money and security issues due to a boom/bust childhood that has left a deep impression. That wasn't going away just by a bit of arguing, you know?

I'm not going to lie to you, he 'won'. We waited until I was 29 until we conceived, by which time I had gone back to university, trained as a lawyer, got a job and worked for a couple of years. And we'd upgraded to a bigger house (the first one was one bedroom and not at all child-friendly) and paid off the mortgage entirely. He'd switched out of the mining industry into a different field, found he hated it, and went back to university to do a PhD.

So the bad news is we ended up waiting five years after I was ready. The good news is that it has made everything about parenting a million times easier. He's a student, so his hours are flexible, so right from the start we shared SAHP. Being mortgage-free meant that I could afford to go part-time and he didn't need to work on top of his scholarship, and we're frugal but comfortable. Knowing that we were both absolutely ready to have children has spared any guilt or resentment during the tough times.

You say that you think love and security are more important than money, and they are. But it's a lot easier to give your child unconditional love when you're not scared about money, and it's a lot easier to give them a sense of security when you have one yourself. I don't think your partner is saying that he wants to wait so he can spoil them with consumer goods - just that he wants them to have a roof over their heads that you own, so they CAN have the security you both agree is important.

To add to that novel - I wouldn't have waited that long if I hadn't believed that he was genuinely on board with having children with me. We got together when I was 20, we always agreed we wanted kids, so it really was just a matter of difference about what constituted 'ready'. Part of me is still sad that I lost those years, but I do think that we're a stronger unit and better parents for waiting.

I guess one aspect for me is that I have a high chance of having fertility issues. I was due to have an endoscopy when I was 20, but I wussed out. Since then, my sister (who is 28) has had an ectopic, lost a fallopian tube and is struggling to conceive because of her endometriosis (which I likely have too- hence the planned endoscopy at 20!)

I don't want to be 30 and trying to conceive when I fear I may have difficulties, and we are also London based so buying somewhere is not an easy task. I guess, when I moved to London, I made the choice that home owning was not likely. My boyfriend followed me down here with his parents' attitudes, and it feels hard to shake off.

Just after we married I was diagnosed with an ovarian cyst and ended up having an ovary out, so that added to my issues as well. Luckily there was no problem; we conceived first time out with #1 and second time out with #2. But I do understand the worry.

Having said that, it sounds like you're expecting him to live where you want, knowing that it makes home ownership difficult, and also agree to have children before he's ready, and just...lose the attitude towards money that he's grown up with. Which is a damn good attitude towards money to have, frankly. My DH and I are more recession-proof than any couple I know because of our early attitude towards money. I know you two earn shedloads, but if he ever loses his job, you're screwed, frankly.

I think you might need to compromise here. Would he be more comfortable having a child if you moved out of London to somewhere more affordable? Or could you look at buying an investment flat somewhere so that even if you're renting, there's some tangible property somewhere to fall back on?

I haven't made him move here- rather, this has always been my plan (I had a job sorted here before our relationship was solid), and his placements didn't fit with it until this year. We've talked about moving to other areas, but there's nowhere else that'd really fit us.

I know he's young to be thinking of kids (he's 25, nearly 26) and I do get that, I guess that just, for me, it's been a long wait to be in a situation where I felt I could have kids, and then having the possible fertility problems on top of that worries me.

In lots of ways, he is still a kid. He still sniggers when he farts. He still enjoys jumping over things. He thinks the tube stop Cockfosters is funny.

It just seems like a weigh up between my needs and his- he needs financial security as a guarantee, whereas I was raised with an attitude that money is not the be all and end up. My parents were poor. My grandparents lived in slums. They managed, so I can manage.

And I wouldn't be screwed if he lost his job- I make £30k in my second year of teaching- plenty to raise a kid on. Even if his job wasn't permanent, he could get locum work. We're not financially unstable.

Kat - I'll warn you now - he'll still be sniggering when he farts in another 10, 20 and probably 30 years time. That doesn't really ever go away. Sorry. Ditto the other puerile humour things.

If I were you I'd go and have your endoscopy. See what your actual risks are with endometriosis etc. If they're higher than you'd like, then you have that card to play in this situation - because yes, you'd need to get going sooner rather than later.

But if you're ok, then rethink it - your DH isn't that daft to be taking financial security seriously, it's an important thing to life's general ease, if not actual happiness. Remember that financial struggles are one of life's top downers - so if they can be avoided, it's better to do so. However, owning your own home isn't the be all and end all, especially in London, where the prices are crippling - so perhaps getting a long-term rental that you both like would be a good compromise.

Well yes, it's a weigh-up between your needs and his. And I agree with you that you seem very financially secure at the moment (can you really not afford to buy anywhere in London on 80K? Fuck me). But - and I mean this kindly, because I have been where you are - you don't really seem to think that his needs are reasonable. The man sounds eminently sensible to me, and you haven't actually gone and got an endoscopy, have you, so you might have no issues at all.

If you love a man who has a deep need for financial security, then you have to accept that that's who he is. It doesn't go away.

I'm you in more ways than I said upthread; I grew up poor (we were homeless at least once) and have the same 'eh, we'll manage with love' attitude as you. DH grew up a different sort of poor from me - boom/bust, as I said, which left him deeply insecure and almost phobic about debt. But neither is right or wrong, and we're a lot happier having put ourselves in a situation where neither of us are confronted with our financial fears, you know?

Just another perspective - at 25 he's going to be only 2 years into his training at the earliest. He's got another several years to go, not necessarily in London (unless they've changed the nightmare that was MTAS - I got out of the UK after that one). This includes exams which are a) expensive b) bloody difficult even on a good night's sleep and are much much harder once you have children and the broken nights that go along with them.

How are you going to cope if you discover that with 3 months before you're due, you have to change region? Move house? How are you expecting your partner to cope with a difficult shift system and broken nights? How are you going to cope if his HR department decides he can't have paternity leave when the baby arrives because there aren't enough people on the rota?

It's not impossible to be a doctor in training and have a family. There are good reasons why a lot of us wait until later (i.e. at the least, after exams) and as a result end up having children in our 30s.

Oh and as for "he can always locum" - sorry, with the financial mess that is the NHS this is no longer a given.

I'm looking at having to locum in a couple of months (the mess that is MTAS is getting worse not better IMO, Iteotwawki).

It completely freaks me out that I won't have a definate income each month (especially as thinking of doing research at the same time cutting down the available hours to locum iyswim)

I'm still hamstrung by my student debts from the first time around, too, and can't even think about ttc yet. Absolute earliest "wouldn't be a disaster" would be a summer 2012 baby, financially, but without a permanent post to go back to I'd be loathe to go for it on purpose until I have a number or a staff job tbh. Neither currently being advertised in my specialty, and am wondering about changing tack.

OP, I'm 32 and graduated in 2004. I moved city/region 5 times in the first 5 years since graduation. At 26 your DP is at the start of that. Yes the income sounds good in medicine, but the lifestyle and debts early on do make it difficult to do anything else in the first few years.

He's set to finish his specialist training in 2 years' time, hence the 'no babies for 2 years +' rule. I know his job is going to get more and more stressful, and I know he has a lot ahead of him, so I'm not asking for babies before his job is more secure.

My concern is that the 'we must own a property' stance is going to become the bar we have to reach, rather than 'we must be financially stable and his job must be more settled'. It's the home owning aspect I worry about- I'd be happy in a long term rental, but he has stated that, where as the original agreement was that we'd wait 'til he'd finished his training, it's now until we own somewhere.

Anywho, my sister has discovered this thread, so I'm not going to write anything more. Not that I don't love her et al, but it's hardly the anonymous forum I was aiming for...

Thanks for your replies.