dh reveals his true feelings about my abuse

[pintoguinness]

I've always said that my childhood was no tougher than anyone else's. My mother is a depressive who took out her temper on us and played emotional games with us. She married the man she had an affair with (but to this day denies it). He was a control freak who would, with my mother, put me down in public and make jokes at my expense. I was a very skinny teenager, not blessed with pretty looks, had zero confidence and spent most of my life in a make believe world to blot out their cruelty.

I did have a relationship of a sorts with my mother. My stepfather most of the time would ignore my very presence, not looking or talking to me until the day I left home, which is what he wanted.

There have been relationship issues with my mum since then culminating in no contact now for a year or so. She has been told she is welcome to contact the kids, call them or arrange to meet them but she has never taken an interest in them. She didn't ask to see them at Christmas, I suggested that my dh take them to see her.

Now my stepfather has cancer and last night my dh suggested I send a card and if I didn't then he would. An argument started in which he said that my behaviour towards my mother is hysterical, that I over exaggerate things that have happened and misinterpret situations. That I am full of hatred towards her and that has blinded me. He also said that their cruelty was just their sense of humour and that I should let go.

He's never been particularly supportive. Being on the outside he's never seen the behaviour for himself so only has my word for it and that of my sister and brother. I have given her lots of chances due to his reasoning but she has thrown it all back in my face and never once does she make the first move. Deciding to stop contacting her was the hardest decision I've ever had to make and I thought he understood and was on my side. Now I'm left hurting over his comments and wonder where I should go from here?

Hi OP, if your DH cannot understand or thinks it shoudl be in the past, tell him no, it is not a single incident, this is a person who was horrible to you, has continued to be horrible and will be horrible again. All this person will do is suck the life out of you.

You need your DH to understand that he is helping your mum continue to hurt you, and just say very calmly "do not speak to my mother, she has made my life hell, she is continuing to do so" and variations on that whenever the subject comes up and if you can get him to read "toxic parents" this would help enormously.

It may also help to ask your DH, that if he had been beaten to within an inch of his life by someone, how would he feel if you invited the attacker round to tea? Your DH may also be afraid of expressing emotions and would rather the entire situation went away, which is why he tries to behave normally and does not realise your family is NOT NORMAL.

It took years for my DH to 'see' that my parents were abusive. And he did have to see it for himself, unfortunately, which I found hard to cope with - wasn't my word enough? Was he doubting my version of events?

Finally my mother did and said enough awful things to me that he 'got it'.

Even now he will urge me not to defend myself, which I find really upsetting as I feel his place should be beside me - supporting me, and if he doesn't support what I'm doing he should at least support ME, you know.

My self-esteem is such that if he says "I think you're making a mistake", or "I don't think you should do that" WRT my parents I instantly lose faith in myself. I am working on changing that.

Gettingawarmgrip - I'm sorry for what happened to you btw, it sounds horrendous and you must have super strength to have coped with all of that and to have finally left.
wineisfine, yes that's exactly how I feel. It doesn't take much for me to lose faith in myself my decisions. I question myself over and over and often use dh as a tool to let me know if he feels my responses are reasoned and unemotional which he has done in the past.

Now I wonder if he has felt like this all along and how he could even think of going against my wishes and supporting people who treated me like a piece of shit on the bottom of their shoes and would continue to do so if allowed.

Oh Guiness I feel for you here, I really do.

Without going into my circumstances, it is true that the scapegoating can "spread", and others may be manipulated into joining in. Fleas.

I have a mantra now. "It is completely unacceptable to hurt me in any way." What your family is doing is hurting you, and that is unacceptable. Not supporting you, or even not really believing you, must be incredibly painful and hurtful, and therefore is completely unacceptable.

That may sound black and white, and it kind of is. By not supporting you 100%, he is undermining you and essentially dishing out more of the same.

I hope it's because he's ignorant. He needs to know how painfully undermining this is to you, and that is completely and utterly unacceptable.

pinto: I'm sorry you're going through this. Your husband should be more supportive. My DH has never met my father, but he trusts me that there is a very good reason for this.

One thing that strikes me is that you worry about your mother telling people that you 'deny her access to your children'. Honestly, you would be perfectly within your rights to do so. Your mother abused you as a child, as did your stepfather; it's perfectly rational that you would want to shield your children from someone who is capable of that.

There is nothing at all wrong with deciding to cut off all contact and pretending that they don't exist. It's your life and you don't have to allow people who hurt and upset you into it. You're a strong woman for having taken the step to cut off contact. It's a shame that your husband cannot realise this.

I agree with Lovecat, counselling would probably be very useful to you in working through your own feelings about the situation.

Thanks pinto, am fine now!

But your last sentence is the crux of it isn't it? I shut myself down over the years as I was told I was 'overreacting' and ' not rational'. But in truth, my reactions were normal reactions to the situations I was in.

Running your perfectly normal reactions past your H, who seems to have abnormal reactions to emotional and difficult situations means that you doubt your own normal reactions.

So if he has been like this all along, the question is why?

Why would he deny your reality?

Usually people who deny their significant other's reality are incapable of seeing the other person as separate to themselves. In other words,it didn't happen to them, they didn't experience it, so therefore neither did you.

And that is a whole other kettle of fish.

Damsel, I've always tried to rise above it and be the better person. I would never deny her access to the kids but perhaps that is because I am confident she would never ask for it. She has sent them things in the past - gifts from holidays, a picture of her receiving 'Best mum in xxx' award - I kid you not! All of this undermines me of course. But she never asks after them. The contact I did have with her she never once asked how I am or how the kids are, all the contact was negative. But I want the kids to see that I never made that choice for them, she has chosen not to contact them, I've never denied her that. For me that is important.

I'll talk to dh tonight but whenever I go over it in my head it doesn't sound right, it just sounds childish and pathetic. I can see us having this conversation once again and again and again each time a new situation crops up.

I think he believes that I now find things to criticise to justify my own behaviour. He thinks I exaggerate my claims of their abuse and because I have an older sister and brother who have also experienced much of the same, when we talk about this he sees us as winding each other up and encouraging this 'hate' talk between us.
I know my sister can analyse things too much, she pours over texts trying to find the hidden meaning and for both my brother and her, because they live so close to my mum, their lives are pretty much overshadowed by her and so their favourite topic of conversation is what she's done next, what she's said and why she is like she is. I see that as their way of trying to understand her behaviour and make sense of it all, he sees it as them fuelling each other and becoming obsessed with making her out to be some kind of witch.

I was shocked at his lack of support when my stepfather was touching up my niece and I'm shocked that he can still doubt my word or think so little of my feelings. I'm not sure that a simple chat will change the betrayal I feel.

He's back from work now. Thanks for all your support, it meant a lot. Wish me luck.

Good luck pintoguinness. x

good luck, pinto - thinking of you xx

Bottom line Pinto, he's married to you, he should be loyal to you and he should support you.

If they are/have hurt you then he should be helping to heal you and protecting you, not playing happy families with them when they've never played happy families with you!

Good luck x

He wasn't there and he didn't see it, but he has your word that it happened and that should be more than enough. I wasn't there to see the neglect and abuse my DH suffered in childhood but I know it happened because he told me so. I would never encourage him to see his mother if he didn't want to or tell him he was being hysterical. (WTF)! I'm sorry he's not being more supportive especially when you've been supportive of him. He's being an ass.

but pintofguiness there is something to be said for "letting it go". it seems clear that you're mother is difficult and has damaged you - but do you want to be defined by your relationship with her? If you let it continue to damage you in this way you are letting her control you and letting her drive a wedge in your family. I have watched my mum and her relationship with her mum and I know why my mum has been damaged, but it saddens me so much that she won't just let it go - she has her own children and grandchildren and positive functioning relationships and doesn't need to be defined by her poor relationship with her mother anymore. And nor do you! Do just let it go. I know you feel hurt by what you perceive to be your husband's not caring attitude, but maybe you're failing to understand him - if he is by nature a peacemaking type character it is so hard not to try to find resolution in things, and try to find the positive in things. it doesn't mean he's trying to do it to your detriment. And his desire for you to let it go is probably in your interest, just like I wish my mum would let it go - she'd be so much happier

Unfortunately I can't let go completely as I have a brother with learning difficulties that she's stuck on his own in a flat. If I want to see him I have to go through her first and she's already demonstrated that she can and will stop me from seeing him. Also my brother and sister live nearby and are often on the receiving end of her bitterness, which they relate to me by phone. I feel that I can at least listen and yes I often share this with my dh which is what he now interprets as me being 'obsessed'.

Sugartongue, nice post. But imho, 'letting go' is a final stage of recovery. A lot of work needs to be done to discover, process, understand, sometimes simply believe it, then have a ceremony, bury it and move on is possible.

Wineisfine, I think the 'do not defend yourself' perspective is a tactic to deal with abusive ones. Defending yourself is engaging them and then they automatically win-because you responded (doesn't matter at all what the response is-and they usually are not listening to it anyway as they are composing the next round of insults). Blank them-it is an empowering tool. It does feel rude at first, but it is so well justified that it should be considered. Btw, abusive ones will take advantage of someone's 'manners' and use it against them.

PintofGuinness, I am so glad for you that you have a brother and sister that know the truth. They are your enlightened witness(es). This is a role that only they can play as they were there when it happened. You can get tons of support from them. But your dh was not there, will not be able to be your enlightened witness, and will not be able to give you that kind of support.

Your dh may be operating from a perspective of denial, imho. Deny all the bad stuff and he won't have to deal with it. Sorry to put a label on it, but I'd say that lacks a certain kind of courage, or backbone; the wuss. You deserve better. I would also cease talking about it with him.

sugartongue , 'letting it go' is very hard to do if you still have contact with your parents....when you are away from them the past is indeed the past...when you are with them the past becomes the present...with all the accumulated anxieties and feelings of the past.

It's very hard to 'let it go' when the same old games are being played with your emotions and life...the only way to 'let it go' and remain in contact imo is if you can learn to adjust your behaviour to accommodate their nastiness and tbh I don't see why the victim should have to put an enormous amount of work into adjusting their own psyche to cope with the abusive people.

The other way of 'letting it go' is to allow them to treat you like they always have....in that case you might as well just wave goodbye to any sense of 'self' you ever hoped to have imo.

It's a horrible position to be in.

I know what you're saying Mizzy, I really do, and I know these family things are not easy, I have one failed abusive marriage behind me. But it might help pinto to try an understand the position her DH is coming from - ie he might not be denying the abuse but trying to find ways to deal with it now, he almost certainly wants his relationship with his wife and children not to be dominated by his MIL! Maybe he thinks him having a positive relationship with her might help. Pinto's DH might be an unsupportive shit (we none of us know after all), but he might just be another flawed human being trying his best to find a solution in a shitty situation, and it would be terrible if pinto left her mother ruin her relationship with her DH as well as everything else

"He would give people a second, third and fourth chance. But as you say he's never ever been a victim. I think he feels that emotional abuse is not really abuse at all and that I should get over it."

If he gives people chance after chance, then he is a victim. He's dismissing what he or what other people feel in order to give others more chances.

My dh can be like this too - I have to point out to him what is out of order from various people in our lives. Otherwise, he'd just suck it up as normal.

Your dh, op, just respect your opinion and your experiences. It is your family and he should observe your feelings on this. Your mother is a real piece of work. As your stepfather is now dying. Well, it doesn't sound like he is looking for anything from you or your dh. Only your mother. It sounds so awful and that you're being asked to even doubt your experiences.

A card would not just be a card. It would be, as you say, so much. And quite rightly, you're simply not willing to do that. You stick to your guns. They were awful to you.

Hi sugartongue

To my way of thinking it's not pinto's mother that is jeopardising the marriage...it's her DH by dismissing her experiences.

I know we are all flawed and none of us get it right all the time and maybe pinto's DH does genuinely believe 'falling in to line' and 'playing nice' is the best course of action...fair enough if that is what pinto wanted too...but she doesn't, so imo he should be backing his wife not his MIL.

Hi pinto.

Your posts resonated so much with me that I raised our own issues with this with my DH this evening.

He said "I stood up for you every time I thought it was warranted".

Which has really upset me! But on some level I know I was initially attracted to him because he is so different to my parents - mentally ill mother and enabling father, always drama, always taking sides. My mother is obsessed with 'loyalty' and my father would back her to the hilt even when she was in the very depths of her psychosis. So H's attitude felt so much saner, more reasonable, and I probably hoped it would rub off on me. He doesn't get especially upset about family stuff, doesn't 'remember' things, never holds grudges etc.

There is a big difference though between my H's refusal to engage or defend me explicitly and your H's saying you should send a card or he will! That's acting against you and a really really big deal IMO.

You should feel able to share your feelings with your husband. He is your partner.

wineisfine - ditto. My dh felt like such a refreshing change! My mother was all about loyalty too and how we should make her proud, never ever let her down. She was so church-orientated and had very strict rules so that when my sister became pregnant, she went mad and tried to make us all treat her like a leper. I remember her saying that she hoped my sister would miscarry. Yet in her own life she left my dad because of an affair she still denies.

My dh's family were different. His mother adores the kids and his dad is one of those conservative quiet types who sits in the living room with his newspapers and expects you to come to him. They don't bother celebrating each other's birthdays and do have minor fallings out that is usually forgotten again within a day or so. My dh would never bear a grudge and would never take sides. Which is wonderful until it comes to you and then I realise that he expects me to do the same. He doesn't like judging others based on what has been said and so he won't judge my mum or my stepfather just because of the things I've told him, he would need to experience those things for himself.

Yes he does admit that they are wrong in some circumstances and he would say so if they behaved like that in front of him, he's not afraid to speak his mind if the opportunity came, but he's never had that opportunity because we don't have contact and I think he just forgets about all the bad things that have happened and sees that a man is dying and feels he ought to do something.

I couldn't bring myself to speak to him much last night. I again asked him about my stepfather's behaviour towards my niece and he said I made too much of a big deal back then, he was just being over-affectionate and I should have kept my mouth shut. He pointed out that my niece and her friend were both 17 and not exactly shy and he wasn't actually touching their breasts or crotch therefore not doing anything wrong. Course he didn't see my stepfather with his hand rubbing my niece's back inside her clothing, or stroking her friend's bum whilst pretending to rub a piece of dirt off - all in full public view. Commenting on their breasts and generally making them feel uncomfortable (they told me). And he said that an outside may think that I had a vendetta against him and he can see why my mother might have thought that when I told her that his behaviour was inappropriate. He also thinks that outsiders may think I've over-reacting with the cruelty thing, after all it's just teasing isn't it?
He then said that he had already apologised, that he accepts he was in the wrong and he will never bring the subject up again.

But sorry isn't good enough. He's hurt me deeply and try as I might, I don't know how to make him understand just how upset I feel. I can't do any work, I've had to cancel some of my contracts because I just can't concentrate when I feel like bursting into tears. I suppose that's me over-exaggerating too?

It shouldn't matter that he never witnessed what happened. He's your HUSBAND! He should take you at your word.

DH and I were both abused - my uncle sexually abused me in childhood, but for DH it was much much 'worse' (think 'a child called it' type thing). I used to feel insecure about this because I felt bad for struggling when in comparison to DH it was nothing (still bad enough for my uncle to deserve a jail sentence, but not as much or for as long as DH's mother)

But he's always been very reassuring. In his eyes, what happened is only part of it, and what really matters is how it makes you feel.

Your DH is being quite insensitive. Stick to your guns, if you don't want to contact your mum and stepdad then don't.

Most of my hurt isn't just the fact that he is belittling my experiences but that he has used words like 'vendetta', 'hate-filled' and 'over-exaggerating' although he thinks that if he puts the word seems in there then that's ok.

I've always tried to do the right thing. If I have responded to an email or text I have shown him my response before sending it. I have never reacted to information fed to me about what she's done next. I have been on the other end of her screaming and hysterical phone calls in which she has screamed that she'll never forgive me (for what?) and only once have I made such a phone call to her when she pushed me too far. I have always acted in a fair and reasonable manner, trying to be the better person and keeping things logical and unemotional. So to have those words thrown at me, it hurts so much and I can't make him see that. The one thing I want is for someone to hug me and there's no-one there.
Sorry, can't keep talking about this. I promised the kids I'd take them out and I've so much work to do. I can't let them see me in this state. I need to take a bit of time out.