psychology behind exps refusal to send dcs christmas/birthday presents

[kissingfrogs]

He claims he will not send them presents unless he can hand them over personally. He is allowed no contact (long history) but has started monthly interchange of cards with dcs via his solicitor to show his commitment, progressing to further contact at some point etc.

He says he has kept their christmas/birthday presents to give to them when he does eventually see them. He has however sent/offered things to me personally in the meantime. For me, not them.

Is it because he feels deprived so therefore he wants them to go without, is he envisioning distraught dcs clamouring for where are daddy's presents, or is he waiting for the moment when he can produce all these gifts to claim that it was all mummy's fault that they didn't get them?

I don't understand and it really makes me upset for dcs. I know it's just presents and I don't mean all this in a materialistic way - it's the psychology behind it that bugs me.

It's because he's a selfish, controlling, childish, tight-fisted wanker.

What CE said. This is basically another attempt to control you via upsetting the DC. What he wants, by the sound of it, is to have you back as his possession and object to have sex on, and therefore the 'deal' he is offering is that he will give the DC presents when he is allowed access to you.
DON'T FALL FOR IT. If this man is horrible enough to be forbidden accessto DC he should not be having any access to you: don't engage in any communication with him except via solicitors. If that's already the state of play, tell your solicitor to tell his that no presents to you will be accepted from him and that they are all to be returned. Remember, always, it's the DC's right to have contact with their father (unless he is harmful to them), it is NOT and never will be his right to have any contact whatsoever with you.

Hi. I agree with the above posts. He is a nasty, selfish arse. My ex has supervised contact once a month, and at christmas brought some quite nice presents for my DS. He handed them over, allowed my DS to open and play with them, and then took them away again, refusing to let us take them home and leaving my DS in tears. The presents have never been seen since, and I'm starting to wonder if he just borrowed them for the day or kept the receipts to take them back to the shop.

Incidently, he also buys gifts for me, despite being told many times that it is inappropriate. He enlists the contact centre staff to give me the gifts, and then I feel uncomfortable and put on the spot because he is in the next room and grills the staff about whether or not I liked it. He does it under the guise of the gifts being "from my DS" and it is usually pre-empted by a solicitors letter saying I will be churlish for refusing it.

Sorry for the hijack, I just don't know what goes on in these men's heads. They certainly don't care about the needs of their children.

The psychology is: the man is a bell end and only cares about himself. Decent fathers and decent men do not do this. Only a spineless wanker would upset a child in this fashion.
I rarely think that children are better off without their fathers, but in this case I believe he brings nowt to the table but misery.

Exactly. If he gave a cuss about his children he would want them to have the presents. He really is not a suitable person to be a parent at all.

Millie, "just say no"! Who gives a .... whether his solicitor says you would be churlish? Your solicitor can just as easily write back saying "no she won't". You do not want presents so you do not have to accept them. It's a bit wrong of the contact centre staff to allow themselves to be drawn in to the game. How can the presents be "from your DS" when he doesn't see his dad except at the centre? It's just sentimental-sounding but meaningless words. You do not have to play this game. (If they're nice things and you feel he owes you, that's another matter, take what you want!)

I take this sort of nonsense as the gift giver wanting me to feel crap and guilty that I won't let them give the presents in person - I should feel that I am a crappy parent because I am depriving my DC's of the gifts.

He can then also tell the DC's how nasty Mummy is as she stopped them getting all the fun toys.....thus using the DC's as a weapon against you.

Well, bollocks to that...if the gift giver was a decent human being they would be giving the gifts themselves in person and a no contact order wouldn't have been needed!

As others have said...tiz all about control/emotional blackmail and general nastiness.

Arrrggggh...as you can tell I detest people who behave like this.

My friend's ex used to pick up his son at the weekend then say they couldn't afford to go out that day as "mummy has taken all my money". All this while sitting in an Audi v8 wearing an Armani suit. My friend's ex was a manipulative, lying, violent bastard who never accepted responsibility for anything, when my friend left him he told everyone it was becuase she was a lesbian, he never connected the fact he attacked her with an axe to her wanting to end their marriage.

So I'd say your ex is a manipulative, lying abusive bastard who never takes responsibility for anything. And he wants to let you know it is YOUR fault he is not sending his kids presents. I bet if you turned up on his doorstep with the kids tomorrow saying "we've come for the presents" he wouldn't have any becuase he never bought them.

Millie: I know you have been having a lot of problems with the contact centre staff but is your solicitor completely useless too? Trying to make someone accept gifts they do not want is legally recognised as harassment, so your tosser XP's solicitor should recieve a letter from your solicitor pointing this out and adding that XP's solicitor has no business labelling you churlish and could possibly get in to trouble for doing so (aiding and abetting a criminal harasser?)

Agree with all that has been said. Your ex is a twat. Refuse all gifts. In fact I would tell your ex to shove the presents up his arse.
Personally if my ex was so bad as to not be responsible enough to have unsupervised contact with his own child, then I really would not want my child to take anything at all from him.
Stay strong, leave any presents he gives to the centre workers on the untouched-he will get the message.

Thanks everyone. I needed to hear all that because I get a cycle of starting to feel sorry for him and making excuses for him (old habits die hard), when the fact of the matter is that he is doing it for bad reasons.

Cravingexcitement: you said it like it is. I like your way with words - straight to the point

What if it is years before he hands things over personally? A 4 year old will not be impressed with a babygrow and rattle and will think his dad a pillock for not posting the present at the time.
Tell him that giving a present isn't supposed to be all about the giver. It is supposed to be about the recipient.
If he is really interested in putting his kids first he will send them presents and cards.
Hoarding them in some weird shrine is all about him, not them.

Actually rereading your post is he not allowed to send presents? That sounds a bit sad, but putting the money saved into an account for the kids and presenting that to them later would be much more useful than a toy they have grown out of.

ofcourse he's allowed to send presents. He chooses not to because he says he will give dcs their pressies "when" he sees them. He claims he still has their last christmas presents. So, if all goes to plan with no more upsets he may start having contact in the summer hols. I'm concerned that he's going to produce all these presents and tell them "...it's because mummy wouldn't let me see you..." and really upset and confuse dcs.

It IS all about him and not them isn't it? How I wish it was different

My analysis is that he hates you more than he loves them.

I would add to VBW's comment that the only person he 'loves' is himself.
KF if he is on some sort of good-behaviour schedule building up to being allowed to see DC make sure you log and record every example of knobboid behaviour from him - if he carries on acting up and you can prove it then contact can be prevented. And remember, all the time, that it is not you stopping the DC from seeing their father. It's him stopping himself from being allowed to see them by continuing to behave like a prick.