Guilt guilt guilt. No. I won't feel guilty - why do you keep on trying to make me feel that way?

[ItsGrimUpNorth]

I'm sick of two people trying to make me feel guilty. I think it's working that's why I'm pee'd off.

They wanted to visit us this past Bank Holiday weekend.

To be fair, they did tell us ages ago that they were down for a wedding but that particular weekend, we were already so busy. It was sil's 40th birthday party, sil has just had a baby so we were spending a day and a night with them (120 miles away) to celebrate and meet our new niece.

I'd already bought tickets to an all day event that was sold out for the Monday.

If we did have five minutes to spare, you know what, we wanted it for breathing space and not to have visitors.

I've been told the woman of the two people cried about not seeing us all the way back up north because we couldn't/wouldn't fit them in this one particular time they were down south.

We last saw them for a weekend in April and will see them again for a weekend at the beginning of July.

I'm tired of the ott 'catastrophising' and manipulation by them acting so hurt and 'neglected'. It puts pressure on us and we do our best to see them every six weeks or so. Plus Skype every week.

Aaaaargh. I just know I'll find myself apologising and I just don't see why I should.

HOw does everyone handle this kind of thing?

Just saying brightly 'Sorry we have another engagement' and changing the subject.
Mind you, if the woman is that much of an attention seeking whinyarse, I am not at all surprised you didn't want to see them. WOuld this be your MIL by any chance?

Skype is evil. Get rid of Skype. I did it by telling the relative in question "Sorry the webcam stopped working, and I don't know how to fix it, sorry." No more Skype! relief.

Don't apologise.

I think the "we cried all the way" line is unforgivable. Manipulative. You don't owe these people anything. You have busy lives. Forgive yourself. Be thankful you live far away from them and use it as an excuse as often as possible.

Are you trying to avoid the 3-letter M word?

Um. I think you handled it well. You see plenty of them, they wanted more, it wasn't good for you, so you said no.

There really isn't anything you can do to stop them crying/complaining to others behind your back etc. I suppose, next time you Skype, you could say that you knew they'd been complaining behind your back and you find it rude. Or that the emotional blackmail is causing you to have second thoughts about the July visit.

But actually I think you should just continue standing your ground. A relative of mine used to burst into tears every time they left our house; I used to smile and wave them off.

You just have to toughen up really. Emotional manipulators never change. Anything you do will never be quite enough.

Dh always feels awful though and will do anything to 'avoid' hurting their feelings.

I'm tempted to permanent black marker our camera on the computer to stop the as dh gets in knots to make sure he can do it every week. He gets so ratty if something comes up which makes it impossible to do.

I just hate the way they're so very upset at not being able to visit this time.

It makes me want to tell them to belt up and grow up and get a backbone and stop being so needy.

Am I understanding this right - you have a scheduled appointment slot where you have to talk to these "friends" on Skype each week?

Are they your employers?

They sound emotionally exhausting, tbh.

There's no way I could allow a friendship to dictate the schedule / routine of my household in such a rigid way. Never mind the emotional manipulation going on with the "cried all the way" - what are they, 12 or 13?

They sound like emotional vampires to me.

I would have to ditch them. I spent some time trying to keep friends happy after I left uni, in particular one girl who was always quite needy (to the point where I felt obligated to re-arrange social events I wanted to join in on to attend her stuff, on a regular occasion). In the end her neediness pushed me away to the point where it was a relief to decide to cut her off.

Life is far too short to be dictated to. Your first loyalty should be to your DH and children, then parents, and friends you are happy for being friends with.

Not because it's a duty, or a chore, or an obligation. There's too much of that in life that we can't avoid, without piling on more on top!

It's MIL isn't it..

Oh yes, I forgot - any true friend understands the stresses on their friend's time anyway. If it doesn't suit, the friendship can always just drift apart naturally. But it shouldn't be forced.

So my point about "no way I could allow a friendship to dictate the schedule / routine of my household in such a rigid way"... I should really have added on something like "and anyone that tried to clearly isn't a friend, especially when it's been pointed out that plans have already been made/etc.".

These people aren't friends, I reiterate - they're emotional vampires. Unfortuantely I've never stumbled across a cure yet, short of culling them.

The girl I cut off (after several years of being dictated to) started to do the same thing with a mutual friend (also went to uni with us but they hadn't been that close before). So - those people don't change, they just find a new victim to dictate to, IME.

"I just know I'll find myself apologising and I just don't see why I should. "

Sorry, but p.s.

You shouldn't need to apologise.

The only thing you can control easily in life is what you choose to do with your spare time. You don't need to justify that to anyone!

Learn these words:

"No."

Or:

"That's not going to be possible."

"That doesn't work for us."

No justifications, no apologies, no reasoning!!

Fine let DH skype them, but otherwise you just need to do the broken record thing and tell them repeatedly if its not convenient for them to come.
Otherwise it will surely escalate and you will ending up hating both his parents and DH.

And if FIL is feeding you the info that MIL has been crying all the way home then he is enabling and encouraging this spoiled and abnormal behaviour. He probably wants you to cave in so that he gets an easier life with her.

Yes, he does want an easy life and so tries to ensure she gets exactly what she wants. He's always done that and so had dh. I'm the first person to say, "Actually, no." They hate that.

She does cry a lot about not being a mother to young children involved with the dcs as much as she would like. Zero hobbies, zero outside interests, zero response to suggestions as to how she could busy herself. Maximum emotional reliance on us.

She's so young - 58 - and just absolutely refuses to do anything to make things better. She's having cbt, I know that but nonetheless, I find her so unreasonable, so entitled, so spoilt. I cannot feel sorry for her at all. And the irony is, she allowed dh and his sister to visit their granny for only one poxy hour a week otherwise she'd get in a strop.

But I do feel guilty nonetheless. She's good at making herself seem frail and vulnerable. I just don't want to have anything to do with them. I would be so much more accommodating if I knew they had a busy, varied and active life that they enjoyed. But they're just always bleating about how they don't see the gcs enough.

Can you actually say any of this to her? She won't get it by herself. Your resentment of her will only grow, and affect your relationship with DH.
Try and talk to her. If she is getting cbt it kind of implies she is at least slightly open to change.

Ach, she'll just cry and cry and I'll look like the baddie again. What's the point?

She's been treated like a princess all her life and anything that doesn't go her way is always someone else's fault. Her daughter moved away with her dcs because she found her mother suffocating and needy. They nearly had a nervous breakdown when they found out she was moving away. How dare she?

She's full of snippy comments about how very kind everyone has been to her when she's crying. Meaning I'm not kind. I just want to keep my distance and don't want to get involved in her sh*t because when it affects me, dh and I row about it.

We used to get on ok when I bit my tongue about things she said and wanted and did but once I had my dcs, I couldn't tolerate it anymore. I need to manage it all in my head better.

Have you had a go at the toxic inlaws book by Susan Forward?

Your DH needs to toughen up as well because his primary loyalty is to you his wife and his children. However, after a lifetime of such conditioning at their hands (many children now adults who were raised by toxic parents are in the FOG - fear, obligation, guilt) he may well find it nigh on impossible to actually now stand up to them and their manipulation. All that they have done is manipulative and designed to get their own way.

Is MIL really having CBT?.

FIL is likely to be the bystander in your MILs dysfunctional family unit, these weak men often are. People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles; your FIL acts out of self preservation and want of a quiet life.

You may want to read "Toxic Inlaws" written by Susan Forward. I would continue to stand firm against such an onslaught by these dysfunctional people. I would also get rid of SKype and install an answering machine.

But I don't want the dcs to miss out on seeing their gps on Skype every week.

I just wish that dh wouldn't get in knots about it if we turn out to be busy. He gets ratty and stressed.

Mil is indeed having cbt. I don't know what's happened with it or how she's progressed.

Dh has had to learn to put me first. It took a long time. And a lot of Relate and rows.

We still row because I get tense every time they visit. I mean, she causes so much confusion about stuff by telling stupid little lies about where she's put stuff or what food dh said we should eat from the larder. It's bizarre. And it catches me out every time and dh and I always end up having the, "But your mum said that you'd said..... so I did it," conversation when he'd said no such thing.

I try to keep her seated in the front room with the dcs so that she can't 'help' and cause confusion. I'd love help from her but it just gets so complicated when she lies about where she's put the cheese knife. Weird.

If I'm honest, I utterly dread it if she is widowed because she will be agitating to come and live with us. Or she'll be calling several times a day because she is unable to change a light bulb.

I'm all for helping older relatives but my experience with this person is that she is quite controlling and needs to feel her needs are utmost.

FUcking hell if she were my MIL I would put a pillow over her head. Either that or take the piss mercilessly 'Oh shit, are you going to blub again? Quick, someone put out a flood warning!'
People like this lose the right to be indulged all the time. I appreciate that you are probably far nicer than me and wouldn't do this but I would be actively working on offending the old bat so much she cut contact with me.

God, my mum does this. I find the more I bow to her demands the worse she gets.

So now I make it so difficult for her. I am unavailable (sp?) or it isn't convenient.

OP, I feel for you, especialy if your DP has been 'trained' to cede to her 'needs'

Makes me shudder..

What can she do if you watch her cry without any reaction whatsoever? Works with the one relly of mine who has occasionally done this. 'Oh bugger, I've cried, it hasn't worked, what next?'

No need to say anything, in fact it is best not to give any reaction, just watch the crying then carry on as before.

My sister, who is more hard-core, adds a shrug and a grimace then carries on regardless.

With regard to the lies - what happens if you say "oh dear MIL you got confused again, you didn't put the cheese knife in the draw you put it in the cupboard! Never mind, it happens to the best of us as we get older!" or "gosh you're getting forgetful in your old age, aren't you?"

She may not be so keen to manipulate/stir if it makes everyone think she's getting old (or mad). Repeat "oh your mum got confused again" like a broken record. Or check everything she says with dh, saying "your mum said xxx but we know she gets confused so ..."

(Are you sure she is lying, and not actually losing her memory? Just a thought)

No, I can't be 100% sure she isn't lying and is confused about where she puts stuff. But she always says that dh told her to put it there.

For example, Dh keeps some tinned food in the cellar ready for when we go camping. She has strong feelings about it and thinks we should use it up and always tells me dh said to use these carrots etc. When he said no such thing. It's minor but it causes confusion in the household. I've got three dcs, all of whom are or who are going to be very capable of playing one parent off against another and I don't need another one in the area!

She has a mind like a steel trap for grudges, post codes, telephone numbers and how long it's taken someone to send her a thank you card so I suspect she is not suffering from memory loss. But I am going to be alert to that from now on.

I think the answer in this case is to be very frank and to take nothing she reports about dh's wishes seriously and always check with him.

I started questioning it in front of her actually. I told her that I knew she'd verbally uninvited some guests from our wedding list and she just had this funny lopsided smile and said, "I don't remember that."